The Administration Thread

[Crewton]

28 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

A valid point but have we really sold 19,000 season ticket? Still an amazing show of support and loyalty but I thought it was several thousand below that this season. 

I thought the club had said 16,000, half of which were supporters who'd carried their STs through from last season, and half new/renewed from 2019/20.

[strawhillram]

Are were expecting any progress in the next few days?

 It will  it be a calm and quiet week?

[Oldben]

As we head into arbitration with the efl.

[JfR]

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

As of today, the administrators have not stated their plans for the resolution of the debt with any of its creditors. Although they announced a "preferred bidder" would be known "before Christmas", it has not been named. Nor did they meet their own deadline of over a month ago of making the announcement "imminently". Nothing has changed concerning the disagreement between Wycombe and Derby. There have been no discussions, no calls, nothing since I visited their offices in London last November.

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

If the "simplest to understand" reason for why Derby owes Wycombe money is because Derby were given an agreed extension to a deadline so they had to input their accounts four games into the new season rather than to input their accounts three games into the new season, and this somehow stopped Wycombe from being in the Championship, then I don't think I'll be able to get my head round the other reasons. 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

36 minutes ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

Obviously we don't know exactly what is going on because of the paucity of decent information.

However, as a previous poster said, this is now probably about egos as much as anything.

Yesterday I spent around £120 on trains, food and drink for my family on top of the season ticket costs and I guess a lot of other people do the same. The amount spent in the local community per game on top of tickets must be huge. (25,000 spending £40 is a million)

Both Mel and Mr Steve Stephen-Stevie have got Queen's honours that could be removed, Mel's for 'services to business' and Steve's for 'services to the economy, sport and the community'. Surely deliberately taking actions that could result in a club being liquidated and catastrophically affecting a local economy and community undermines their legitimacy to hold those titles?

Perhaps Dame Margaret could suggest that they may perhaps lose their inferior honours if they don't see sense and find a way forward. Failing that then maybe a UK Govt petition would allow all MP's to consider it.

I know that threatening to take away someone's title seems petty but the previous poster may be onto something. Going away quietly with an OBE intact may be a choice an egotist would make.

This is a really good point.

There could and maybe should have been a collective analysis of revenue generated from yesterday's game.

This includes all businesses from the local area. Pubs, restaurants, take aways, supermarkets, bus and taxis.

If everyone calculated their income from yesterday compared to every other regular mundane Sunday, it could go some way to demonstrate the impact on the local economy if a club was to go bust, all because of some poor decisions by rich men, crazy rules and greedy vultures.

[PistoldPete]

43 minutes ago, Ian Buxton's Bat said:

Obviously we don't know exactly what is going on because of the paucity of decent information.

However, as a previous poster said, this is now probably about egos as much as anything.

Yesterday I spent around £120 on trains, food and drink for my family on top of the season ticket costs and I guess a lot of other people do the same. The amount spent in the local community per game on top of tickets must be huge. (25,000 spending £40 is a million)

Both Mel and Mr Steve Stephen-Stevie have got Queen's honours that could be removed, Mel's for 'services to business' and Steve's for 'services to the economy, sport and the community'. Surely deliberately taking actions that could result in a club being liquidated and catastrophically affecting a local economy and community undermines their legitimacy to hold those titles?

Perhaps Dame Margaret could suggest that they may perhaps lose their inferior honours if they don't see sense and find a way forward. Failing that then maybe a UK Govt petition would allow all MP's to consider it.

I know that threatening to take away someone's title seems petty but the previous poster may be onto something. Going away quietly with an OBE intact may be a choice an egotist would make.

You have to wonder what Gibson hopes to gain from this.

he’s already spent legal fees trying to sue EFL, trying to sue us over the stadium sale , trying to muscle in on Efl action against us. All failed. 

now trying to bring  a separate action against us.., when we have  no money to pay him even if there was any merit to his claim. So he will be lucky to get his legal fees back. 
 

and then there is all the aggravation of being one of the most hated men in Derby .. and plenty of people outside of Derby having a go at him.. Ray parlour for one.

what is his point? 

Edited January 31, 2022 by PistoldPete

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, JfR said:

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

As of today, the administrators have not stated their plans for the resolution of the debt with any of its creditors. Although they announced a "preferred bidder" would be known "before Christmas", it has not been named. Nor did they meet their own deadline of over a month ago of making the announcement "imminently". Nothing has changed concerning the disagreement between Wycombe and Derby. There have been no discussions, no calls, nothing since I visited their offices in London last November.

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

If the "simplest to understand" reason for why Derby owes Wycombe money is because Derby were given an agreed extension to a deadline so they had to input their accounts four games into the new season rather than to input their accounts three games into the new season, and this somehow stopped Wycombe from being in the Championship, then I don't think I'll be able to get my head round the other reasons. 

Just shows how he is trying the twist the story to suit his argument.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting Wycombe are responsible for Derby going into administration but they do seem to be one of the barriers to our exit. Also:

With regard to the imminent announcement of a preferred bidder, he seems to be another person who struggles to understand the difference between an expectation and a deadline.

With regard to announcing plans for creditors, surely you wouldn’t expect them to until the deal is finalised and what’s that got to do with Wycombe and their claim?

[Sparkle]

11 minutes ago, JfR said:

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

As of today, the administrators have not stated their plans for the resolution of the debt with any of its creditors. Although they announced a "preferred bidder" would be known "before Christmas", it has not been named. Nor did they meet their own deadline of over a month ago of making the announcement "imminently". Nothing has changed concerning the disagreement between Wycombe and Derby. There have been no discussions, no calls, nothing since I visited their offices in London last November.

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

If the "simplest to understand" reason for why Derby owes Wycombe money is because Derby were given an agreed extension to a deadline so they had to input their accounts four games into the new season rather than to input their accounts three games into the new season, and this somehow stopped Wycombe from being in the Championship, then I don't think I'll be able to get my head round the other reasons. 

Missing some rather important things there! We don’t make the decisions the EFL do -he didn’t  mention that we broke no rules either. Also why would the administrators get back in touch with Wycombe if they consider their claims to be nuts 

Maybe Peterborough should sue the EFL for Wycombe being allowed to be promoted rather than them so that the EFL can say go and sue Wycombe! 

[Sparkle]

4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

You have to wonder what Gibson hopes to gain from this.

he’s already spent legal fees trying to sue EFL, trying to sue us over the stadium sale , trying to muscle in on Efl action against us. All failed. 

now trying to bring  a separate action against us.., when we have  no money to pay him even if there was any merit to his claim. So he will be lucky to get his legal fees back. 
 

and then there is all the aggravation of being one of the most hated men in Derby .. and plenty of people outside of Derby having a go at him.. Ray parlour for one.

what is his point? 

It’s all about EGO and money he knows his club spent a lot more money than Derby did in that season and he knows that they weren’t good enough to finish higher than 7th - he is more famous for trying to extort money out of business and organisations than anything else. 

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, Crewton said:

I thought the club had said 16,000, half of which were supporters who'd carried their STs through from last season, and half new/renewed from 2019/20.

It was around that figure. Gate receipts yesterday wouldn't have been far off £500k.

[PistoldPete]

17 minutes ago, JfR said:

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

As of today, the administrators have not stated their plans for the resolution of the debt with any of its creditors. Although they announced a "preferred bidder" would be known "before Christmas", it has not been named. Nor did they meet their own deadline of over a month ago of making the announcement "imminently". Nothing has changed concerning the disagreement between Wycombe and Derby. There have been no discussions, no calls, nothing since I visited their offices in London last November.

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

If the "simplest to understand" reason for why Derby owes Wycombe money is because Derby were given an agreed extension to a deadline so they had to input their accounts four games into the new season rather than to input their accounts three games into the new season, and this somehow stopped Wycombe from being in the Championship, then I don't think I'll be able to get my head round the other reasons. 

Why would submitting our accounts in august mean a points deduction could have applied in May to the previous season? Automatically? 
 

we had submitted our accounts and EFL said they didn’t like the valuation of the stadium sale. Then that was found to be ok. Then they’d said they didn’t like the valuation of players which wa sat first found to be ok by the IDc  then found not to be ok by the lap.

there were other things that Efl were challenging exceptional items etc.

 

against that background how could we ever have submitted finalised accounts unless and until we did various drafts and then got to stage where we agreed with EFl what they bloody well would accept.

that process took a Long time and wasn’t finalised until November. And that’s as much the Efl’s fault as anyone else.. and because it’s blooming complicated . 

[PistoldPete]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

It was around that figure. Gate receipts yesterday wouldn't have been far off £500k.

Amazing well done rams fans. I would say brum fans  too but given their behaviour I won’t.

[RadioactiveWaste]

He also appears to be labouring under the misunderstanding that restatement of our accounts would have instigated an immediate deduction of points for the previous season.

The restatement of our accounts, or, financials as he says, would then be reviewed by the EFL and if necessary a new disciplinary procedure started, which is what happened and ultimately the administrators agreed a 9 point deduction for.

[Oldben]

6 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

It’s all about EGO and money he knows his club spent a lot more money than Derby did in that season and he knows that they weren’t good enough to finish higher than 7th - he is more famous for trying to extort money out of business and organisations than anything else. 

For gibson it's about this ...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/middlesbrough-fc-reveal-record-35m-20201847.amp

For Wycombe it's about believing that lost 20 million when relegated, their ignoring the fact they probably should not have been in the Championship in the first place, they only were in the Championship because league one ended earlier than it should have done.

Wycombe were not good enough in the Championship and so were rightly relegated.

Now they want some money from Derby, which they don't deserve. There case is based on when Derby submitted details back to efl and Derby did so within the allowed time table - case dismissed!

 

 

[duncanjwitham]

24 minutes ago, JfR said:

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

So by analogy - if someone lights a building on fire, and then someone else deliberately bars the doors and windows to stop people escaping, then that second person is entirely innocent in the matter?  Thought not.

25 minutes ago, JfR said:

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

Do they *really* believe that the EFL would re-organise the leagues with multiple games already played? That's proper cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. And even if we have submitted on the exact deadline given, it still only triggered the next stage of the process, it didn't trigger an automatic deduction. That process didn't finish until November(?), and would have gone on longer if we'd have used our right to demand a actual hearing rather than an agreed decision. And even if it had triggered an automatic deduction, it would have absolutely been within our right to appeal it, so the penalty would have almost certainly been suspended (because the outcome would have been even worse for the EFL if the penalty had been amended even further into the season).

[vonwright]

39 minutes ago, JfR said:

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby...

Another one hiding behind "It's all really complicated, don't try to understand it!"

I don't think the Wycombe claim is particularly complicated. I don't think there are "multiple reasons", I think both their claim and Middlesbrough's claim boil down to the same thing: if a club was found guilty of P+S breaches in season X, can another club claim damages for supposed financial losses 'caused' by those breaches, on top of the agreed points penalties imposed by the EFL? And then the relevant questions include how you'd quantify those losses, how you'd prove the P+S breach caused the losses, and so on, which I think will be very hard for Wycombe and Middlesbrough to do (and hard for the EFL to support). But let's get it all out in the open, and stop this "It's all very complicated but we aren't the hold up here, it's all Derby's fault!"

Edited January 31, 2022 by vonwright

[Animal is a Ram]

I find it really interesting that he's doubling down on the assertion it is somehow Derby's fault that the EFL couldn't (as they wanted, might I add) apply the points deduction to the season that Wycombe were relegated.

Is he deliberately not reading the reports from the LAP?

He should be going after Boro for their claim delaying the process, if he thinks releasing the accounts sooner would have meant the deduction would come in...

[Sparkle]

6 minutes ago, Oldben said:

For gibson it's about this ...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/middlesbrough-fc-reveal-record-35m-20201847.amp

For Wycombe it's about believing that lost 20 million when relegated, their ignoring the fact they probably should not have been in the Championship in the first place, they only were in the Championship because league one ended earlier than it should have done.

Wycombe were not good enough in the Championship and so were rightly relegated.

Now they want some money from Derby, which they don't deserve. There case is based on when Derby submitted details back to efl and Derby did so within the allowed time table - case dismissed!

 

 

Always very strange that the EFL didn’t do the sensible thing and ask those EFL clubs to level up the games to be played so at least any standings was based on the same amount of gam3s played.

[Ghost of Clough]

42 minutes ago, JfR said:

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

No one is blaming Wycombe for us getting into this position. But, we are blaming them for putting in a frivolous claim which is blocking our exit from admiration and potentially taking money away from true creditors.

42 minutes ago, JfR said:

As of today, the administrators have not stated their plans for the resolution of the debt with any of its creditors. Although they announced a "preferred bidder" would be known "before Christmas", it has not been named. Nor did they meet their own deadline of over a month ago of making the announcement "imminently". Nothing has changed concerning the disagreement between Wycombe and Derby. There have been no discussions, no calls, nothing since I visited their offices in London last November.

Why do they need to make a public announcement regarding agreements with creditors? It's widely believed everything is lined up waiting for the parasite claims to be dealt with first. 
The reasons for the 'imminent' announcement being delayed is also well reported. Ashley came in at the last minute resulting in the administrators spending time to weigh up all offers on the table. This was then compounded by the EFL rejecting the administrator's plan for exiting administration.

42 minutes ago, JfR said:

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

After the conclusion of the 20/21 season (11/05/2021) the LAP gave their decision for the club to submit restated account and P&S figures by 18/08/2021 (2 league games in to the season). However, as the club and the EFL couldn't agree on the acceptable amortisation policy, an extension was granted by the EFL to take it until 24/08/2021 (4 league games into the season). This then got further delayed.

Given both clubs had already played a few games by this point, I fail to see how those results could be wiped off and replayed with club swapping leagues.

42 minutes ago, JfR said:

If the "simplest to understand" reason for why Derby owes Wycombe money is because Derby were given an agreed extension to a deadline so they had to input their accounts four games into the new season rather than to input their accounts three games into the new season, and this somehow stopped Wycombe from being in the Championship, then I don't think I'll be able to get my head round the other reasons. 

The even simpler reason is this:

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Ghost of Clough

[Ramarena]

39 minutes ago, JfR said:

In case anyone's interested, Rob "Lionel Hutz" Couhig's given an update to Wycombe supporters with some comments on the situation with us:
https://gasroom.org/discussion/7216/rob-couhig-update

"Derby is an interesting situation. Its administrators continue to peddle the premise that Wycombe is somehow responsible for its possible demise. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wycombe had nothing to do with its accumulation of approximately £60 million in debt, including nearly £30 million to the government, £20+ million to the holder of the note of Mr. Morris which is secured by the stadium, approximately £8 million of other football debt, and, of course, the many smaller non-football creditors from the Derby area.

As of today, the administrators have not stated their plans for the resolution of the debt with any of its creditors. Although they announced a "preferred bidder" would be known "before Christmas", it has not been named. Nor did they meet their own deadline of over a month ago of making the announcement "imminently". Nothing has changed concerning the disagreement between Wycombe and Derby. There have been no discussions, no calls, nothing since I visited their offices in London last November.

There are multiple reasons why Derby owes Wycombe money. Perhaps the simplest to understand is that Derby, once it lost its arbitration, deliberately delayed turning over its reconstituted financials to avoid relegation. It did not even meet the panel’s deadline of August 14 (note: this is wrong, the original deadline was August 18th), which probably would have still allowed Wycombe to compete this year in the Championship. This cost Wycombe the difference in net revenue between competing in the Championship and League 1 this year and created likely financial losses beyond this year."

If the "simplest to understand" reason for why Derby owes Wycombe money is because Derby were given an agreed extension to a deadline so they had to input their accounts four games into the new season rather than to input their accounts three games into the new season, and this somehow stopped Wycombe from being in the Championship, then I don't think I'll be able to get my head round the other reasons. 

This guy knows he’s in the wrong!