Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[The Baron]

Surely the EFL members vote on the proposals in terms of eligibility rather than the rules being dictated by the EFL board? 

[Tyler Durden]

29 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Now I hope you can see why the majority of us on here think there's a vendeta by the EFL against us

Speak for yourself. 

If you want to say that you believe the EFL has a vendetta against us then that's your prerogative but to then transpose your opinion onto other posters is extremely presumptuous.

[Day]

1 minute ago, The Baron said:

Surely the EFL members vote on the proposals in terms of eligibility rather than the rules being dictated by the EFL board? 

Let's say that happened. How many clubs do you think would say hold up, let's take that one out so Derby County can apply for this loan to help them out?

Not likely is it, if any it wouldn't be enough to push it through.

It's a competition, we're all rivals.

Look at the Premier League vote the other day, did Brighton vote in favour or against the sponsorship ruling which is there to basically prevent money being pumped into Newcastle.

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, The Baron said:

A fair hearing is right for both parties and also the integrity of the game.

 

The automatic points deduction was introduced by the EFL specifically because clubs were abusing administration as a means of gambling trying to get promoted and then stiffing their creditors if things did not work out. In that sense the penalty has worked given the reduction in the number of clubs going into admin since its introduction. 

It’s good of you to come on here and explain.

we had one stupid season and that has resulted in the large debts. That said, others have far bigger debts. For Derby the question is. Without COVID would have Derby gone into administration? If the answer is yes 12 point slam dunk. If the answer is no....then that’s a different issue. The fact that the EFL are allowing some owners to break P&S/FFP rules to ensure a club’s survival cannot not be a requirement for them to do so.

If we have a look at P&S/FFP Reading have killed it with a far bigger overspend than us yet they apparently are looking at a smaller points penalty.

Also the EFL needs to sort out COVID losses, Stokes claim is absurd. There needs to be strict criteria that is audited.

How can Bournemouth not pay for Harry Wilson for 2 years? That’s a gamble if they don’t go up then ...boom

For Derby, Something went very wrong not just in amortisation and FFP but in transparency in general

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Speak for yourself. 

If you want to say that you believe the EFL has a vendetta against us then that's your prerogative but to then transpose your opinion onto other posters is extremely presumptuous.

He said the majority not everyone.

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

He said the majority not everyone.

But that's still presumptuous don't you think? Obviously not. 

[PistoldPete]

Just now, David said:

Let's say that happened. How many clubs do you think would say hold up, let's take that one out so Derby County can apply for this loan to help them out?

Not likely is it, if any it wouldn't be enough to push it through.

It's a competition, we're all rivals.

Look at the Premier League vote the other day, did Brighton vote in favour or against the sponsorship ruling which is there to basically prevent money being pumped into Newcastle.

Well that's exactly it David. The EFL is not independent, it is mob rule.

I posted what Ridsdale was saying a few months back saying nobody should get a loan, especially clubs who have overspent, because preston were doing fine with  their sadly now ex owner.

I mean Ridsdale for Gods sake! of all people!

 

This is why Derby fans like me cannot take being lectutured to about our club being punished to "maintain the integrity " of the League.

It is pure hypocrisy.

 

 

 

 

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Three questions:

1. Would the club have avoided administration completely if it wasn't for Covid?
2. How much extra money is an owner expected to cover?
3. Did the club act responsibly, such as transfer activity?

The other question I'd ask is at what point do the EFL believe an owner becomes solely responsible for covering any and all losses?  If Morris had only put in 1p to cover a loss during his ownership, would he still have been responsible for covering the COVID £20m loss too? £100k? £1m? Where is the line?

[Truckle]

15 minutes ago, David said:

It's rules such as above that builds this "vendetta" that some believe the EFL have towards us.

Let's not forget here, the EFL signed off on our accounts, they only became an issue when they looked into the stadium valuation despite Kieran Maguire alerting the EFL to take a look at our accounts a long long time before the stadium sale was made public.

Meanwhile clubs such as QPR smashed the FFP rules the season we played them at Wembley, were Derby crying and threatening to sue the EFL and QPR, no.

Gibson however, well he's been a dog with a bone on this. I suspect the EFL would not have appealed and pushed as hard if they didn't have this threat hanging over them, and this all may look like paranoia, but honestly tell me I'm wrong.

The EFL will not want this in court, front and back pages of the paper for the country to see their handling of all this.

I find it hard to take that we're being punished for something historically which was approved by the EFL, the punishment doesn't feel like it fits the crime either.

We've been under embargo for the best part of a year, unable to strengthen the team, can't submit accounts as there is an argument over accountancy methods which are not in the EFL rules.

We're then being denied an opportunity of an interest free loan that could have helped prevent us going into admin because of the above investigation, so we're hit with -12.

Yet that doesn't appear to be enough as they want a further 9 point deduction.

At what point are we allowed to feel a little annoyed by what the EFL have done here, I'm amazed other club fans are actually enjoying this when it could be their club next.

We have a club down the A52 with an owner sending players between his 2 clubs in plain sight, how is this not been flagged up as a potential FFP issue, can you imagine transfer negotiations? It's a table with 2 chairs and just himself. 

It just stinks, it really does. Maybe I'm biased as this is my club, but it does absolutely feel like a vendetta that won't end until they have us in League 1.

When you look at what Rooney and this team are up against, it's incredible the fight they continue to show on the pitch. They don't deserve to have a relegation on their CV's, not one of them.

If we somehow stay up against the EFL's best efforts to send us down, without a doubt Rooney should be manager of the season, not that the EFL would be brave enough to award it him.

I tried to capture this sentiment in this a few weeks back, particularly the bit about other EFL clubs not being worried about their future:  https://ramsreviewpodcast.wixsite.com/home/post/the-wrong-coloured-shorts

[Foreveram]

My opinion, your either 100% behind the club on and off the pitch or you’re not a supporter.

[Ram-Alf]

15 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Speak for yourself. 

If you want to say that you believe the EFL has a vendetta against us then that's your prerogative but to then transpose your opinion onto other posters is extremely presumptuous.

As i'm not the ringmaster to whip up the crowd I think that's a fare point you've made, So i'll retract the "majority of us" and substitute "some of us"

[LazloW]

There is unlikely to be a true vendetta. But there has been a complete mismanagement of the process from start to finish. It isn’t helped that there have been a number of fingers in the pie that shouldn’t have been (Gibson and others who aren’t even connected to a football club, but just seem like professional ? stirrers). These people have been like dogs with bones and the upshot is that the EFL have been suckered into prolonging the agony far more than was either necessary  or - given they had agreed our approach for years - fair. 
Frankly I’m surprised that the club didn’t decide to challenge the legality of the whole process in the courts and step outside the clearly not-fit-for-purpose rules or processes, the actions of the EFL and the dubious influence of people outside the process. Somebody will at some point (and perhaps even the whole concept of FFP which seems - to a layman like me - as unfair restraint of trade). 

[Day]

8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Well that's exactly it David. The EFL is not independent, it is mob rule.

I posted what Ridsdale was saying a few months back saying nobody should get a loan, especially clubs who have overspent, because preston were doing fine with  their sadly now ex owner.

I mean Ridsdale for Gods sake! of all people!

 

This is why Derby fans like me cannot take being lectutured to about our club being punished to "maintain the integrity " of the League.

It is pure hypocrisy.

We had Stephen Pearce on the board not long ago, so talking of hypocrisy I couldn't sit here and complain about how independent the EFL is now.

Saying that, how Ridsdale, fresh out a 7 and a half year ban from company directorship is now on the board, I just can't, I can't get my head around that one.

He would have been voted through though, which just seems bizarre to me.

[B4ev6is]

I think personal we all should protests can banners and flags saying to efl no bad language but saying to them we are going continue fight you. Maybe saying efl we want justice against Gibson on them.

Or saying not guilty on them.

[Andrew3000]

38 minutes ago, David said:

It's rules such as above that builds this "vendetta" that some believe the EFL have towards us.

Let's not forget here, the EFL signed off on our accounts, they only became an issue when they looked into the stadium valuation despite Kieran Maguire alerting the EFL to take a look at our accounts a long long time before the stadium sale was made public.

Meanwhile clubs such as QPR smashed the FFP rules the season we played them at Wembley, were Derby crying and threatening to sue the EFL and QPR, no.

Gibson however, well he's been a dog with a bone on this. I suspect the EFL would not have appealed and pushed as hard if they didn't have this threat hanging over them, and this all may look like paranoia, but honestly tell me I'm wrong.

The EFL will not want this in court, front and back pages of the paper for the country to see their handling of all this.

I find it hard to take that we're being punished for something historically which was approved by the EFL, the punishment doesn't feel like it fits the crime either.

We've been under embargo for the best part of a year, unable to strengthen the team, can't submit accounts as there is an argument over accountancy methods which are not in the EFL rules.

We're then being denied an opportunity of an interest free loan that could have helped prevent us going into admin because of the above investigation, so we're hit with -12.

Yet that doesn't appear to be enough as they want a further 9 point deduction.

At what point are we allowed to feel a little annoyed by what the EFL have done here, I'm amazed other club fans are actually enjoying this when it could be their club next.

We have a club down the A52 with an owner sending players between his 2 clubs in plain sight, how is this not been flagged up as a potential FFP issue, can you imagine transfer negotiations? It's a table with 2 chairs and just himself. 

It just stinks, it really does. Maybe I'm biased as this is my club, but it does absolutely feel like a vendetta that won't end until they have us in League 1.

When you look at what Rooney and this team are up against, it's incredible the fight they continue to show on the pitch. They don't deserve to have a relegation on their CV's, not one of them.

If we somehow stay up against the EFL's best efforts to send us down, without a doubt Rooney should be manager of the season, not that the EFL would be brave enough to award it him.

Wonderful post that, captures my thoughts precisely.  Other clubs must set aside the competitive mentality for once because otherwise they collude with misuse of power which as you sat, could one day hurt them.

[I know nuffin]

2 hours ago, The Baron said:

I don't get my income from football though. 

So you do it all for free lol

[I know nuffin]

59 minutes ago, The Baron said:

Surely the EFL members vote on the proposals in terms of eligibility rather than the rules being dictated by the EFL board? 

How many EFL"suggestions" have been thrown out and how many when it has come to the crunch are not quite what the club's thought they were, just a question as I have no idea of the answer

[Ambitious]

42 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

My opinion, your either 100% behind the club on and off the pitch or you’re not a supporter.

I couldn't disagree more. What is best for the club does not always align with the actions of the club.  The way Mel ran the club is case and point. 

He borrowed money to hide incompetence in decision making, ironically force feeding us the line that it was all from his own pocket. 

[Tyler Durden]

4 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

I couldn't disagree more. What is best for the club does not always align with the actions of the club.  The way Mel ran the club is case and point. 

He borrowed money to hide incompetence in decision making, ironically force feeding us the line that it was all from his own pocket. 

[PistoldPete]

45 minutes ago, David said:

We had Stephen Pearce on the board not long ago, so talking of hypocrisy I couldn't sit here and complain about how independent the EFL is now.

Saying that, how Ridsdale, fresh out a 7 and a half year ban from company directorship is now on the board, I just can't, I can't get my head around that one.

He would have been voted through though, which just seems bizarre to me.

Well Pearce didn't get involved in any decisions involving Derby but even so clubs were saying he had a conflict of interest. So voted for Ridsdale instead. Which tells you all you need to know about the integrity of the League.