Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[RoyMac5]

31 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Not trying to objectionable - the OP has their views as do I but opinions is all they are. 

Argumentative not objectionable. ? ? 

[The Baron]

6 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

It's a good job there was the bailout of millions of £s for those that applied from some maybe going into Administration, Of which we were either denied, Or didn't apply for knowing it would be denied.

All clubs who applied for the loan AND agreed to the terms were accepted as far as I am aware. 

[PistoldPete]

20 minutes ago, Indy said:

Thanks for answering. If the EFL do cite Ebola as a reasonable precedent it will make them look foolish, in my opinion. 
 

The question about why the other 70 clubs didn’t go into administration is more complex, and I’d hope Derby’s administrators can put forward a reasonable case that, even though our finances weren’t great, it wasn’t reckless to have large loans with a reasonable expectation of income to service the outgoings - until the force majeure event happened. 
 

I think it’s a reasonable argument, but can see it going either way. Would just like a fair hearing without the likes of Gibson, The Daily Mail etc misreporting elements and/or trying to influence. 

It isn’t an argument that could possibly be worth having. How could Derby possibly have stopped COVID from happening.or lockdown? 
 

COVID is obviously a force majeure event. And lockdown has never happened once in history not on a global scale. 

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, vonwright said:

Again, I'm not sure why you think this is the proper legal test of whether this force majeure clause applies. Rather, the way the clause is drafted suggests we will need to show Covid was solely responsible for forcing us into administration. If the Wigan ruling is anything to go by, the argument "We were run perfectly happily by a rich owner who was prepared to plug £xm gaps in our income/expenditure, but couldn't or wouldn't cover gaps of £xm" isn't going to play well. These circumstances are very different, and I have no idea what the outcome will be, but the way the club was run before Covid will be a relevant consideration in deciding whether Covid alone forced us into administration. I think we need to wait for the ruling and see what it says, but the "rich benefactor" model which we've used, as have many others, always came with risks. 

Wigan's owner took over in the middle of the pandemic, then days later decided he to put them into admin.
Mel decided he had £xm to spend and budgeted accordingly. Then Covid happened meaning £xm was no longer enough to keep us out of admin.

The way the club was run before Covid: As in cutting expenditure so that it could sooner or later be ran sustainably... or do you want to go back further to say we spent too much on players on high wages?

Past is pretty irrelevant if the plan in place was to run sustainably in the future, with enough cash to get there.

Three questions:

1. Would the club have avoided administration completely if it wasn't for Covid?
2. How much extra money is an owner expected to cover?
3. Did the club act responsibly, such as transfer activity?

[RoyMac5]

32 minutes ago, The Baron said:

 

I specifically said that if a club was in a precarious financial position then Covid would make things worse. 

Perhaps you’d care to point out which clubs without Prem revenue aren’t in a precarious financial position?

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Argumentative not objectionable. ? ? 

Ahem... ?

[PistoldPete]

7 minutes ago, The Baron said:

All clubs who applied for the loan AND agreed to the terms were accepted as far as I am aware. 

Efl issued statements implying Derby were not eligible due to being under suspicion of rule breaches. Then later said we didn’t apply. Why would we apply for a loan if we weren’t eligible ?

[Indy]

6 minutes ago, The Baron said:

All clubs who applied for the loan AND agreed to the terms were accepted as far as I am aware. 

The EFL decided the terms and they decided that any club under investigation was ineligible. When they made that rule, they knew that DCFC was the only club who would be exempted by that rule. So they just saying “read the terms and conditions” is, again, disingenuous.

[LazloW]

2 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

.I hope we get the deduction reduced or overturned, but I rate the chances of it happening as much as I rate my chances of winning the lottery.

[The Baron]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

The EFL decided the terms and they decided that any club under investigation was ineligible. When they made that rule, they knew that DCFC was the only club who would be exempted by that rule. So they just saying “read the terms and conditions” is, again, disingenuous.

I'll take your word for it and if so it seems a poor show. 

[PistoldPete]

2 minutes ago, The Baron said:

I'll take your word for it and if so it seems a poor show. 

You don’t have to take his word for it the Efl issued public statements at the time saying clubs suspected of breaking the rules would not be eligible. Suspected mark you.

[Day]

4 minutes ago, The Baron said:

I'll take your word for it and if so it seems a poor show. 

The same rule was not in place for League 1 and 2 clubs.

https://www.efl.com/news/2020/december/efl-and-premier-league-statement-rescue-package-agreed/

[The Baron]

Fair enough, thanks for that. 

[Ram-Alf]

31 minutes ago, The Baron said:

All clubs who applied for the loan AND agreed to the terms were accepted as far as I am aware. 

Agreed, And that's most likely why others never went into Administration, Unfortunately for us, We were told by Rick Parry that we never applied, The reason we never "allegedly" applied was we would have been turned down due to our previous conduct

[Foreveram]

You can just imagine someone at the EFL writing up the rules and Gibson looking over their shoulder and adding ‘ or suspected ‘

[B4ev6is]

6 minutes ago, Foreveram said:

You can just imagine someone at the EFL writing up the rules and Gibson looking over their shoulder and adding ‘ or suspected ‘

Yet boro lost more money than Derby but yet they are not being punished like we are.

[Ram-Alf]

16 minutes ago, The Baron said:

Fair enough, thanks for that. 

Now I hope you can see why the majority of us on here think there's a vendeta by the EFL against us

[Red Ram]

2 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Now I hope you can see why the majority of us on here think there's a vendeta by the EFL against us

Let's see a poll then. Because I honestly doubt most of us are that blinkered.

[Ram-Alf]

3 minutes ago, Red Ram said:

Let's see a poll then. Because I honestly doubt most of us are that blinkered.

Your free to do a poll.

[Day]

It's rules such as above that builds this "vendetta" that some believe the EFL have towards us.

Let's not forget here, the EFL signed off on our accounts, they only became an issue when they looked into the stadium valuation despite Kieran Maguire alerting the EFL to take a look at our accounts a long long time before the stadium sale was made public.

Meanwhile clubs such as QPR smashed the FFP rules the season we played them at Wembley, were Derby crying and threatening to sue the EFL and QPR, no.

Gibson however, well he's been a dog with a bone on this. I suspect the EFL would not have appealed and pushed as hard if they didn't have this threat hanging over them, and this all may look like paranoia, but honestly tell me I'm wrong.

The EFL will not want this in court, front and back pages of the paper for the country to see their handling of all this.

I find it hard to take that we're being punished for something historically which was approved by the EFL, the punishment doesn't feel like it fits the crime either.

We've been under embargo for the best part of a year, unable to strengthen the team, can't submit accounts as there is an argument over accountancy methods which are not in the EFL rules.

We're then being denied an opportunity of an interest free loan that could have helped prevent us going into admin because of the above investigation, so we're hit with -12.

Yet that doesn't appear to be enough as they want a further 9 point deduction.

At what point are we allowed to feel a little annoyed by what the EFL have done here, I'm amazed other club fans are actually enjoying this when it could be their club next.

We have a club down the A52 with an owner sending players between his 2 clubs in plain sight, how is this not been flagged up as a potential FFP issue, can you imagine transfer negotiations? It's a table with 2 chairs and just himself. 

It just stinks, it really does. Maybe I'm biased as this is my club, but it does absolutely feel like a vendetta that won't end until they have us in League 1.

When you look at what Rooney and this team are up against, it's incredible the fight they continue to show on the pitch. They don't deserve to have a relegation on their CV's, not one of them.

If we somehow stay up against the EFL's best efforts to send us down, without a doubt Rooney should be manager of the season, not that the EFL would be brave enough to award it him.