PistoldPete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, jono said: Undoubtedly Derby’s finances were very stretched prior to Covid. Can’t argue with that when we see the HMRC problems and the losses. We may, or may not have collapsed at some point due to that. No matter how likey,It is speculative .. would new owners have come in ? Would we have got salaries under control, would up and coming youth players attracted better fees ? We’re the MSD loans short term that Mel intended to settle when he had liquidated other assets pre Covid ? .. who can say for certain ? But to suggest that an unprecedented global pandemic (that removes 70% of your revenue in a single event virtually overnight and probably devalues the owners capital at the same time) isn’t force majeur is a joke. Really ? There is only one answer to that question and it is .. yes it flipping was. It is also ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Exactly . If I was a judge and Efl tried to claim COVID wasn’t a force majeure I would dismiss the point in two minutes flat and award all costs to Derby. jono and 48 hours 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, jono said: Undoubtedly Derby’s finances were very stretched prior to Covid. Can’t argue with that when we see the HMRC problems and the losses. We may, or may not have collapsed at some point due to that. No matter how likey,It is speculative .. would new owners have come in ? Would we have got salaries under control, would up and coming youth players attracted better fees ? We’re the MSD loans short term that Mel intended to settle when he had liquidated other assets pre Covid ? .. who can say for certain ? But to suggest that an unprecedented global pandemic (that removes 70% of your revenue in a single event virtually overnight and probably devalues the owners capital at the same time) isn’t force majeur is a joke. Really ? There is only one answer to that question and it is .. yes it flipping was. It is also ridiculous to suggest otherwise. My argument is, it doesn't matter how our finances were, it doesn't matter how close to the wind Mel was sailing, Covid not only cost us 20 million in revenue, we also werent able to access an £8 million loan that all over clubs could. The EFL, in unprecedented times, conveniently made up the rule that, if you are under an embargo you can't have it. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the 1 club it affected was us. That £28 million would have wiped the HMRC bill and then all we are left with is the debt owed for players/managers and other creditor debt which isn't classed as preferential. The picture would have looked so much better if it wasn't for the landscape unexpectedly changing. I fully expect our appeal to be a success, as I'm sure the administrators will, and if it isn't the EFL seriously need investigating. ariotofmyown, SouthernRam, jono and 10 others 3 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, PistoldPete said: Come January we need to be out of that , or else we will be forced to sell players to avoid them leaving fur nothing. Yes we’ve got a big problem if the sale and the EFl are not both sorted out before mid Jan. But if we avoid injuries in the next few weeks, on current form we can certainly hang on till then and the signs are a sale will happen. If HMRC is rational, that only leaves the EFL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: Yes we’ve got a big problem if the sale and the EFl are not both sorted out before mid Jan. But if we avoid injuries in the next few weeks, on current form we can certainly hang on till then and the signs are a sale will happen. If HMRC is rational, that only leaves the EFL... neither HMRC nor EFL are rational , and that is a big worry. Edited October 18, 2021 by PistoldPete jimtastic56, I know nuffin and 48 hours 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 35 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: My argument is, it doesn't matter how our finances were, it doesn't matter how close to the wind Mel was sailing, Covid not only cost us 20 million in revenue, we also werent able to access an £8 million loan that all over clubs could. The EFL, in unprecedented times, conveniently made up the rule that, if you are under an embargo you can't have it. I'm sure it was just a coincidence that the 1 club it affected was us. That £28 million would have wiped the HMRC bill and then all we are left with is the debt owed for players/managers and other creditor debt which isn't classed as preferential. The picture would have looked so much better if it wasn't for the landscape unexpectedly changing. I fully expect our appeal to be a success, as I'm sure the administrators will, and if it isn't the EFL seriously need investigating. I don't think success is nailed on by any means but we have a good case. On the EFL not granting us the COVID loan , look at this. Ridsdale , that paragon of sensible spending, saying his club didn't need the money and objecting to the loan because other clubs had overspent. Oh the irony! https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/preston-north-end-efl-news-20524570 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: I don't think success is nailed on by any means but we have a good case. On the EFL not granting us the COVID loan , look at this. Ridsdale , that paragon of sensible spending, saying his club didn't need the money and objecting to the loan because other clubs had overspent. Oh the irony! https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/preston-north-end-efl-news-20524570 The fact that Ridsdale was elected to the EFL Board says all you need to know about the EFL - it's like putting Ronnie Biggs in charge of a Mail Train. I know nuffin, RadioactiveWaste, Kathcairns and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 31 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: neither HMRC nor EFL are rational , and that is a big worry. EFL still a big worry. Don’t understand why HMRC would not be rational given MM’s agreement to waive and given that the auction should find the market price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: I don't think success is nailed on by any means but we have a good case. On the EFL not granting us the COVID loan , look at this. Ridsdale , that paragon of sensible spending, saying his club didn't need the money and objecting to the loan because other clubs had overspent. Oh the irony! https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/preston-north-end-efl-news-20524570 I totally agree, it isn't nailed on.. But I will say, if it isn't a success the whole Force Majeure clause needs completing overhauling or abolishing. It should read: Under clause 4.6.2 a club can appeal a sanction if circumstances are deemed a Force majeur event. A Force majeur event is defined as Godzilla scrapping with Rick Waller causing immeasurable damage to the clubs stadium. Rammy03 and TheresOnlyWanChope 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said: EFL still a big worry. Don’t understand why HMRC would not be rational given MM’s agreement to waive and given that the auction should find the market price. If HMRC messing with my tax code is anything to go by they are not rational at all, or competent . Edited October 18, 2021 by PistoldPete jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 34 minutes ago, Crewton said: The fact that Ridsdale was elected to the EFL Board says all you need to know about the EFL - it's like putting Ronnie Biggs in charge of a Mail Train. Or taking your Brazilian Daughter for a meal and asking can I have a cup of Coffee after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRammette Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: If HMRC messing with my tax code is anything to go by they are not rational at all, or competent . Hopefully this will be dealt with at a higher level in a different team than the person adjusting your tax code! jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, CBRammette said: Hopefully this will be dealt with at a higher level in a different team than the person adjusting your tax code! Wouldn't count on it. CBRammette, jono and jimtastic56 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram59 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Crewton said: The fact that Ridsdale was elected to the EFL Board says all you need to know about the EFL - it's like putting Ronnie Biggs in charge of a Mail Train. Unfortunately, it was the other championship clubs who voted him on to the board, 19 of them, I believe. We get the EFL, we deserve, if that's the case. I can't believe that someone with his history could still be so popular with the other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie Greenwood Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, ram59 said: Unfortunately, it was the other championship clubs who voted him on to the board, 19 of them, I believe. We get the EFL, we deserve, if that's the case. I can't believe that someone with his history could still be so popular with the other clubs. He bought them all fish tanks 48 hours 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: Wouldn't count on it. Due to staff shortages, it will be somebody on work experience suffering from a hangover. RadioactiveWaste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 hours ago, PistoldPete said: Exactly . If I was a judge and Efl tried to claim COVID wasn’t a force majeure I would dismiss the point in two minutes flat and award all costs to Derby. Job opportunity - I hope you get the role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 4 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: I totally agree, it isn't nailed on.. But I will say, if it isn't a success the whole Force Majeure clause needs completing overhauling or abolishing. It should read: Under clause 4.6.2 a club can appeal a sanction if circumstances are deemed a Force majeur event. A Force majeur event is defined as Godzilla scrapping with Rick Waller causing immeasurable damage to the clubs stadium. Just had a chat with the EFL. They said Force Majeur is anything they want it to be as long as they win. But seriously, part of the definition of Force majeur is an epidemic so Covid fits. Also have they not allowed clubs to go over the FFP limits because it was an unforeseen event. If they decide to reverse that then next season will start at -12. You cannot have it both ways. I agree that HMRC payments or lack of them is an issue. Unless their is a reason for non payment (deferred due to Covid), or we could have got an additional MSD loan or payment plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Whose paying the clubs expenses (picking up the running debt) at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said: Whose paying the clubs expenses (picking up the running debt) at the moment? It isn’t really debt .. it’s more negative cash flow due to season ticket purchases being made in advance or carried over from the Lockdown period. These are being met by soft loans , probably local benefactors I think. Gritstone Tup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said: Whose paying the clubs expenses (picking up the running debt) at the moment? The administrators. Think they said there was enough cash in the pot to see us through to January. Think I also read that we have acquired a few short term loans. Gritstone Tup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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