The latest from the club via Chris Coles

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

I'd refer you back to page 1 (I know it's been a long time since then)

Coles suggested that we've pre-submitted the accounts to the EFL for them to check them over before the 'officially' submit them - Top ensure that when they are submitted there's no chance of the EFL rejecting them for any reason

It's a sensible approach (I think) after the previous troubles - But leaves us at the mercy of the EFL taking their sweet time to approve them

 

 

Just a thought - Anyone think the EFL are manufacturing a points deduction here? If they wait until we've lost our first 2/3 games before allowing us to sign players it's almost as effective as a points deduction...

Exactly what my suspicious mind had cultivated, we are never going to get the upper hand on the EFL. They have manufactured a position to appease the Gibsons et al of this world. 

[BaaLocks]

40 minutes ago, simmoram1995 said:

do you think if we can’t sign anyone after Huddersfield Rooney might walk? ?

Many on here might not like how Rooney manages the team, might not like what he chooses to do on a Saturday night but you have to say there is not a person in the footballing world who would begrudge him if he said "**** this for a game of soldiers".

Nobody is perfect, nobody is imperfect and I'm happy to say I admire the way Rooney is staying put and trying to fix this, when there is no reason what so ever for him to put himself through it. Again, cheap shot to say you'd rather he didn't because of his management skills but his commitment to helping solve the problem is more than most would say it needs to be.

[RadioactiveWaste]

18 minutes ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Exactly what my suspicious mind had cultivated, we are never going to get the upper hand on the EFL. They have manufactured a position to appease the Gibsons et al of this world. 

EFL politics. Like the shift from "ok we all generally agree not to go overboard about P&S unless it's really badly over" to "puritanical punishment" which happened after Boro's parachute payments ran out....

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, BaaLocks said:

Many on here might not like how Rooney manages the team, might not like what he chooses to do on a Saturday night but you have to say there is not a person in the footballing world who would begrudge him if he said "**** this for a game of soldiers".

Nobody is perfect, nobody is imperfect and I'm happy to say I admire the way Rooney is staying put and trying to fix this, when there is no reason what so ever for him to put himself through it. Again, cheap shot to say you'd rather he didn't because of his management skills but his commitment to helping solve the problem is more than most would say it needs to be.

Absolutly. I've made valid criticism of rooney, but i've also taken a lot of cheap shots at him and made bad jokes at his expense. But i've not had a go at him for trying to stick this out and he is earning some respcet for that and ssome sympothy because he's not getting what he (or the club, or any hypothetical other manager) need to have a chance of success.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

The point isn't whether he is a disgrace or not, it's that we're not in a position to actually know.  We have no idea what advice he's been giving Mel, what decisions he's made himself, what decisions have been made against his advice and so on. I'm not saying don't criticise (hell I've been very critical of the lot of them on here), I'm just saying there's no point singling out individual members of a group when the only info we have is decisions that have been made collectively by that group.  

We do know that the actual accountancy decisions (amortisation, stadium sale etc) have either been signed off by the EFL (the stadium), or are so debatable (amortisation) that every independent accountant that's looked at them (including the on on the disciplinary commission) thought they were fine.

The professor of accounting didn't agree.  The DC dismissed his evidence, the LAP agreed with the Professor that is was far from fine.

[Mihangel]

2 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

I know your comment is tongue in cheek but there are some very experienced and knowledgeable people on this site. For me the CEO and we are talking about Stephen Pearce has got away lightly so far.

He is a chartered accountant and a lot of our issues are to do with finance. He is also the operational head of DCFC so it’s his responsibility to make sure it is run correctly. If he was the CEO of any company with shareholders he would be keeping an eye on his taxi pulling up. I have no problem with his as a person but he needs to accept responsibility for the problems we are in.   

No doubt - It's just some of the ranting, some of the more personal words people use. Clearly there are people who have no understanding of a CEOs work (being described as managing day to day activities for instance) who are oh so happy to attack an individual. It won't be the proudest item on his CV, that's for sure!

[Ram-a-lama fa fa fa]

2 hours ago, EraniosSocks said:

Finally today we are going to the hospital so my partner can be induced and give birth to our Son (in the next hour) So I won't look at this till later on but hoping for some good news and that our new little ram brings us some luck! 

 

COYR 

hope everything goes well. 

got any names yet? how about Mel?

[ollycutts1982]

5 minutes ago, ShoreRam said:

No doubt - It's just some of the ranting, some of the more personal words people use. Clearly there are people who have no understanding of a CEOs work (being described as managing day to day activities for instance) who are oh so happy to attack an individual. It won't be the proudest item on his CV, that's for sure!

Go on the Villa website and look at the video by their CEO, that’s how to communicate with the fans. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

It does seem that the responsibility to say "this would breach our obligations under FFP, if we do this we'll have to make sales pronto to comply or accept penalties" instead of "ok, you've told us to make it happen so we'll find a way to make it happen" lies with Pearce.

My takeaway is the apparent lack of a rudimentary control framework at the club. 

Where were the budgets for playing staff? 

How much challenge and scrutiny did the amortisation method actually get? Any consultant opinion would usually include a benchmark analysis against the market so that you can see if you are an outlier and hence more likely to be challenged. 

Most recently the seeming lack of control design around messaging and communication. Looks like it is made up on the hoof. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

2 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

My takeaway is the apparent lack of a rudimentary control framework at the club. 

Where were the budgets for playing staff? 

How much challenge and scrutiny did the amortisation method actually get? Any consultant opinion would usually include a benchmark analysis against the market so that you can see if you are an outlier and hence more likely to be challenged. 

Most recently the seeming lack of control design around messaging and communication. Looks like it is made up on the hoof. 

All good points.

Potentially all things that by chance or design allowed Rush to operate as he did - until Mel found out and hit the roof....

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

All good points.

Potentially all things that by chance or design allowed Rush to operate as he did - until Mel found out and hit the roof....

Bizarre isn't it? 

In my business life I'd be looking for a risk and compliance director now, and previously probably the chief operating officer to design the control framework. 

For a 30m + turnover business worth a couple of hundred k investment. We had a COO who seemed to be responsible for papering the players contracts and nothing much else.... ?

[BaaLocks]

6 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

My takeaway is the apparent lack of a rudimentary control framework at the club. 

Where were the budgets for playing staff? 

How much challenge and scrutiny did the amortisation method actually get? Any consultant opinion would usually include a benchmark analysis against the market so that you can see if you are an outlier and hence more likely to be challenged. 

Most recently the seeming lack of control design around messaging and communication. Looks like it is made up on the hoof. 

It's the point that Charlie Methvin made on the Sunderland documentary on Amazon - why do you need to care if the numbers add up if you've got someone just pouring money in from the top. That was the model at Derby, punt it for another season and the plan in place to protect us all was never in place. Now that it has happened we're all asking why but anyone who has worked in a privately owned company, of any size, will tell you that if the owner comes into your office and says "this is what I want to do and I'm paying for it" you're in career limiting mode if you turn round and say "actually, while it's just about legal, I advise against that for reasons of financial prudence".

[Mihangel]

2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

It's the point that Charlie Methvin made on the Sunderland documentary on Amazon - why do you need to care if the numbers add up if you've got someone just pouring money in from the top. That was the model at Derby, punt it for another season and the plan in place to protect us all was never in place. Now that it has happened we're all asking why but anyone who has worked in a privately owned company, of any size, will tell you that if the owner comes into your office and says "this is what I want to do and I'm paying for it" you're in career limiting mode if you turn round and say "actually, while it's just about legal, I advise against that for reasons of financial prudence".

Same in any company of any type - All multinationals will publicly talk about their culture of open communication, challenging upwards etc. The reality is as you describe. Took me a long time to work that out, once I abandoned my 'do the right thing' nature, life became easier....

[Mick Brolly]

1 hour ago, simmoram1995 said:

So we have just over an hour and a half let’s hope Mel hurried up with his discussions with Parry! 
 

do you think if we can’t sign anyone after Huddersfield Rooney might walk? ?

Like he did when he played for us 

[Van der MoodHoover]

7 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

It's the point that Charlie Methvin made on the Sunderland documentary on Amazon - why do you need to care if the numbers add up if you've got someone just pouring money in from the top. That was the model at Derby, punt it for another season and the plan in place to protect us all was never in place. Now that it has happened we're all asking why but anyone who has worked in a privately owned company, of any size, will tell you that if the owner comes into your office and says "this is what I want to do and I'm paying for it" you're in career limiting mode if you turn round and say "actually, while it's just about legal, I advise against that for reasons of financial prudence".

Interesting - I watched that but don't recall that point, although it's undoubtedly true for them. 

Ironically, I'm working in a private equity backed venture now and my job (CRO) is to do just that. Let's see if I last till Christmas..... ?

But seriously, the point is not to avoid taking any risk, but to be aware of the possibility. So you get "no regrets" decision making. From the snippets of the meeting reported so far, it sounded like Mel was full of regrets. 

[Chester40]

David's report is going to be like the Stone Rose's second coming. By the time it comes out everyone will have moved on years ago. 

[ollycutts1982]

1 minute ago, Chester40 said:

David's report is going to be like the Stone Rose's second coming. By the time it comes out everyone will have moved on years ago. 

If any of us are still alive. ????

[duncanjwitham]

36 minutes ago, Spanish said:

The professor of accounting didn't agree.  The DC dismissed his evidence, the LAP agreed with the Professor that is was far from fine.

Like I said, every actual accountant that's looked at them thought they were fine...

The original DC with an accountant on it explicitly decided to ignore his evidence because he had no experience of practical accounting.  The LAP with no accountant decided his lack of experience made him perfect for the role. DC2 came back and said that there was basically no reason for the club to think what we were doing wasn't fine.

[Spanish]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Like I said, every actual accountant that's looked at them thought they were fine...

The original DC with an accountant on it explicitly decided to ignore his evidence because he had no experience of practical accounting.  The LAP with no accountant decided his lack of experience made him perfect for the role. DC2 came back and said that there was basically no reason for the club to think what we were doing wasn't fine.

Why have we had to restate the accounts then?  No point in discussing this as you have blinded yourself to any argument that suggests the CEO has a responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in.  Corporate governance is a board responsibility. 

[duncanjwitham]

Just now, Spanish said:

Why have we had to restate the accounts then?  No point in discussing this as you have blinded yourself to any argument that suggests the CEO has a responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in.  Corporate governance is a board responsibility. 

We have to restate them because DC2 couldn't overrule the LAP decision, only decide on the punishment.  It's pretty clear from the DC2 written reasons that they don't agree with the decision.  There's a comment in there about the club operating in good faith, believing what it was doing was absolutely allowed with the rules, even to the extent that the original DC thought what we were doing was allowed.  It's hard to criticise the club for that particular aspect when so many other accountants think what we were doing is fine.

I'm not saying don't criticise the club, I'm just not in the business of piling blame on someone when we don't even know what their actual responsibility for it was.