Wayne Rooney

[Rammy03]

15 minutes ago, Kingpin said:

Let’s not. Please. 

Why? Many were willing to go on with Cocu when it was evident he wasn't up to it

[Andicis]

11 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Why? Many were willing to go on with Cocu when it was evident he wasn't up to it

Cocu is a 3 times Eredivisie winning manager. Wayne Rooney has overseen us losing 6 games in a row, playing some of the worst football Derby have ever played. There was proof Cocu had done a good job elsewhere. Rooney is failing spectacularly. 

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, VulcanRam said:

I don't know what @Roymac reasons are, but I agree that Cocu had to go and Rooney, at the moment, deserves to stay. I'll offer you some reasons: 

Comparing win rate is unfair given that one had a season and a quarter and one has had half a season. David Lowe had a 100% win record when he took over for the Man U semi final a few years ago. Does it make him the best DCFC manager ever? 

Cocu had to go because while he started ok, and only ok, the end of last season / start of this season's form was horrendous. The players clearly weren't buying it. We were bottom of the table. The football was dire. It was the right decision.

Under Rooney, the initial bounce saw us win games and move up the table. The last 16 game or so have been awful. The football is terrible and the players look shot and devoid of, frankly, anything. 

The only two things Rooney has in his corner at the moment are that he has removed a team from the bottom and we might yet stay up. The second, which is important, is that Cocu bought in his own coaching team while Rooney has had to deal with having Rosenior, Given and Walker foisted upon him, which has proven to be a failed project. Two bits of mitigation which I'd say just about, and only just, keep Rooney afloat.

If we stay up, he deserves a crack at it again next season but only with the caveat of him having his own team, with some proper experience, around him.  If we start with the same coaching setup next year, forget it.

If we go down, he's toast as far as I'm concerned as he's failed in his remit, just like Cocu was doing. 

 

Who has had half a season??? Bit confused who you are referring to....Wazza will have had 35 games.....

[Rammy03]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Wayne Rooney has overseen us losing 6 games in a row

He also oversaw us winning 6 games out of 8, keeping 4 clean sheets. By no means am I saying that Rooney is god's gift, I think the poor run has showed that the players can't sustain it as they are not good enough. We've had two managers now who have failed with this group, have you ever thought that it actually is the players?

Rooney has walked into an awful situation. He didn't anticipate it being like this at all. It's unfair to put the blame on him for this. There are bigger problems at the club than the manager and I've been saying it for years.

[Jimbo Ram]

20 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Why? Many were willing to go on with Cocu when it was evident he wasn't up to it

Perhaps some fans were willing to give Cocu a bit of time as under the circumstances he had done quite well in his first season. I was one of the last man standing in support of Cocu but could understand the reasons why a lot of fans wanted him gone and accepted it in the end. What I totally fail to understand is fans that wanted Cocu out but somehow still want Rooney in......can't for the life of me get my head around that total contradiction.....

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

He also oversaw us winning 6 games out of 8, keeping 4 clean sheets. By no means am I saying that Rooney is god's gift, I think the poor run has showed that the players can't sustain it as they are not good enough. We've had two managers now who have failed with this group, have you ever thought that it actually is the players?

Rooney has walked into an awful situation. He didn't anticipate it being like this at all. It's unfair to put the blame on him for this. There are bigger problems at the club than the manager and I've been saying it for years.

It's unfair to expect the Manager of a football club to take responsibility for results and performances on the pitch??????????? In that case why sack Cocu????

[BaaLocks]

11 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Cocu is a 3 times Eredivisie winning manager. Wayne Rooney has overseen us losing 6 games in a row, playing some of the worst football Derby have ever played. There was proof Cocu had done a good job elsewhere. Rooney is failing spectacularly. 

Cocu had managed over 250 games by the time he came to us, Rooney totalled zero. Look, I'm no Rooney fan boy and I agree with you that he has to go - win or lose - on Saturday after the match. But this is not a situation even he will have wished on himself - being thrust into a relegation battle without one ounce of managerial experience. Maybe, just maybe, he took the role out of duty and respect to Mel and those that brought him to Derby? It didn't work out - undoubtedly - but I'm not quite sure I share in some of the 'tar and feather him at dawn' brigade that seem to revel in eschewing bile towards him at every opportunity.

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

He also oversaw us winning 6 games out of 8, keeping 4 clean sheets. By no means am I saying that Rooney is god's gift, I think the poor run has showed that the players can't sustain it as they are not good enough. We've had two managers now who have failed with this group, have you ever thought that it actually is the players?

Rooney has walked into an awful situation. He didn't anticipate it being like this at all. It's unfair to put the blame on him for this. There are bigger problems at the club than the manager and I've been saying it for years.

In what way ''didn't he anticipate it being like this'' he knew the exact position when we took the job, in fact he was one of the reasons Cocu got fired with his dreadful performances, so let's not use that excuse for him. Cocu got these players 10th. Without Bielik. If Cocu who ''failed with this group'' can do that, why can't Rooney? 

Why are the players going backwards? 

It's Rooney. We'd look better overnight without him. 

[Rammy03]

2 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said:

It's unfair to expect the Manager of a football club to take responsibility for results and performances on the pitch??????????? In that case why sack Cocu????

That's not what I said. Of course he should take responsibility. But I think it's unfair to pin the blame all on Wayne Rooney. He lifted us out of the relegation zone. But we've fallen back into it. It's got to the point where you have to question whether the players are up to it. 

Yes he's made mistakes. But as I said before, there are bigger problems here. Mel Morris is ultimately responsible because he has let the playing squad deteriorate. 

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Cocu had managed over 250 games by the time he came to us, Rooney totalled zero. Look, I'm no Rooney fan boy and I agree with you that he has to go - win or lose - on Saturday after the match. But this is not a situation even he will have wished on himself - being thrust into a relegation battle without one ounce of managerial experience. Maybe, just maybe, he took the role out of duty and respect to Mel and those that brought him to Derby? It didn't work out - undoubtedly - but I'm not quite sure I share in some of the 'tar and feather him at dawn' brigade that seem to revel in eschewing bile towards him at every opportunity.

He took the job when we were in a relegation battle. He knew what he was signing up for. He did not take the job out of ''duty'' haha, he's been eyeing up the job since he joined us as a player. Rooney caring about duty when he regularly played for Derby whilst being hilariously out of shape and barely showing any effort, don't make me laugh. 

 

[Jimbo Ram]

Just now, Rammy03 said:

That's not what I said. Of course he should take responsibility. But I think it's unfair to pin the blame all on Wayne Rooney. He lifted us out of the relegation zone. But we've fallen back into it. It's got to the point where you have to question whether the players are up to it. 

Yes he's made mistakes. But as I said before, there are bigger problems here. Mel Morris is ultimately responsible because he has let the playing squad deteriorate. 

The Rams are in crisis, on and off the pitch, agreed. But a key to any revival is having the right Manager in charge. Rooney has shown he is just not that man......

[Anag Ram]

I worry about Saturday because we have a manager who all the fans are slagging off and saying should go at the final whistle and players who the fans are suggesting should be replaced by pretty much an entire new squad.

Where is the motivation to get the result we need?

[ollycutts1982]

I said it Tuesday, I said it yesterday, I’ll say it today and I’ll say it tomorrow. Regardless of the weekend result he needs to go. Saying he has been hindered by the coaching staff is ridiculous. If he’s not man enough to demand his own staff when accepting the job that’s in him. Everyone knew bar WR himself he should have looked to appoint an experienced no2. 
 

The fact he hasn’t been able to get the team to get over the line in the last 12 games speaks volumes itself. 

[Rammy03]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

In what way ''didn't he anticipate it being like this''

When he joined the club initially he thought he was going to help push us on to promotion. I don't think he expected the club to be in such a mess 12 months on. 

 

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

in fact he was one of the reasons Cocu got fired with his dreadful performances, so let's not use that excuse for him.

No excuses for that. Awful performances from him at the start of the season. Clearly wasn't fit, it was time to hang up the boots.

 

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Cocu got these players 10th. Without Bielik. If Cocu who ''failed with this group'' can do that, why can't Rooney? 

Rooney hasn't had a full season. Cocu was awful in the first half of his first season. We were well in the bottom half. You cannot understimate the impact Rooney had when he joined the club. The second half of the season we flew up the league. So it's not 'cocu got these players 10th' he didn't turn water into wine. We just managed to put in better performances and with Rooney running the midfield we were the form team.

Cocu also had a better squad last season. Yes he didn't have Bielik, but he had plenty of experienced players and squad depth.

That novelty of Rooney being in the team and the sense of that unknown with our young players soon wore off though. We reverted to type and are now back down the bottom of the league. Cocu couldn't get them performing this season and now Rooney can't. It's clear to me that the players just aren't up to it.

 

9 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Why are the players going backwards? 

It's Rooney. We'd look better overnight without him. 

That's strange, as the same thing happened when Cocu was sacked. 'the players are going backwards, it's cocu, we'd look better overnight without him.' And we did. Rooney instilled a winning mentality, we put in some excellent performances, especially defensively and we climbed up the table.

[Andicis]

Just now, Rammy03 said:

Cocu also had a better squad last season. Yes he didn't have Bielik, but he had plenty of experienced players and squad depth.

Why do people keep repeating this falsehood? Cocu had Martin, a finished Tom Huddlestone and Rooney himself (who was a waste of space) compared to Rooney who had Bielik playing for at least part of the season, and all of the loanees he brought in January as well as Colin Kazim-Richards. Cocu had no better squad than Rooney, that's a complete myth. 

 

3 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Rooney hasn't had a full season. Cocu was awful in the first half of his first season. We were well in the bottom half. You cannot understimate the impact Rooney had when he joined the club. The second half of the season we flew up the league. So it's not 'cocu got these players 10th' he didn't turn water into wine. We just managed to put in better performances and with Rooney running the midfield we were the form team.

He's had the majority of the season. He has taken up backwards. A lot of the improved second half performances weren't actually down to Rooney at all. I remember Sheff Wednesday away and Blackburn at home being inspired by Martin and Sibley, the idea that it was purely down to Rooney that we finished where we did is hilarious. He was rubbish after the covid break. Waste of space. 

 

5 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

That's strange, as the same thing happened when Cocu was sacked. 'the players are going backwards, it's cocu, we'd look better overnight without him.' And we did. Rooney instilled a winning mentality, we put in some excellent performances, especially defensively and we climbed up the table.

Except we didn't look better overnight did we? We lost the first 2 games after Cocu left. We've only had a handful of ''excellent'' performances all season, most quite a few games after Rooney joined. 

Please name to me one player that has improved under Rooney. Just one. 

[Rammy03]

15 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Why do people keep repeating this falsehood? Cocu had Martin, a finished Tom Huddlestone and Rooney himself (who was a waste of space) compared to Rooney who had Bielik playing for at least part of the season, and all of the loanees he brought in January as well as Colin Kazim-Richards. Cocu had no better squad than Rooney, that's a complete myth. 

Second half of the season cocu had:

Hamer, Roos, Bogle, Wisdom, Clarke, Davies, Evans, Lowe, Malone, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bird, Shinnie, Rooney, Huddlestone, Knight, Holmes, Sibley, Lawrence, Whittaker, Jozefzoon, Waghorn, Marriott, Martin

Second half of the season Rooney has:

Marshall, Roos, Byrne, Wisdom, Clarke, Edmundson, Mengi, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bird, Baningime, Shinnie, Knight, Sibley, Lawrence, Roberts, Waghorn, Jozwiak, CKR, Gregory

 

I know which squad I'd rather have. Cocu also had Keogh, Bielik, Dowell, Paterson and Bennett for the first half of the season and was still well in the bottom half. Rooney has a very inexperienced squad. He doesn't have the leaders that Cocu had, he doesn't have the options, he just doesn't have as good a squad. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by Rammy03

[HariboWest]

Got a real funny feeling he’s gonna name himself on the bench on Saturday, in one final act of vanity. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Rammy03 said:

Second half of the season cocu had:

Hamer, Roos, Bogle, Wisdom, Clarke, Davies, Evans, Lowe, Malone, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bird, Shinnie, Rooney, Huddlestone, Knight, Holmes, Sibley, Lawrence, Whittaker, Jozefzoon, Waghorn, Marriott, Martin

Second half of the season Rooney has:

Marshall, Roos, Byrne, Wisdom, Clarke, Edmundson, Mengi, Forsyth, Buchanan, Bird, Baningime, Shinnie, Knight, Sibley, Lawrence, Roberts, Waghorn, Jozwiak, CKR, Gregory

 

I know which squad I'd rather have. Cocu also had Keogh, Bielik, Dowell, Paterson and Bennett for the first half of the season and was still well in the bottom half. Rooney has a very inexperienced squad. He doesn't have the leaders that Cocu had, he doesn't have the options, he just doesn't have as good a squad. 

There is minimal difference there. Minimal. Bogle for Byrne is comparable, Lowe for Buchanan is too. Malone likely wouldn't have played for us, Jozefzoon and Marriott the same. Rooney chose to sell Holmes and Evans. Huddlestone and Rooney himself were both incredibly washed up by the end of the season.

Realistically, we side graded on fullbacks, offloaded 5 deadwood players, 2 players that were on the way out retired and Davies got injured and Martin left. And then we brought in a better keeper, and let Rooney sign 5 players on loan as well as getting Jozwiak. 

[Jimbo Ram]

3 minutes ago, HariboWest said:

Got a real funny feeling he’s gonna name himself on the bench on Saturday, in one final act of vanity. 

It’s embarrassing enough, please.....

[MickD]

3 hours ago, Anag Ram said:

I worry about Saturday because we have a manager who all the fans are slagging off and saying should go at the final whistle and players who the fans are suggesting should be replaced by pretty much an entire new squad.

Where is the motivation to get the result we need?

Not having a relegation on his CV?