Wayne Rooney

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, YouRams said:

I agree and I said on a previous post when everything’s going our way we look alright but as soon as we concede they all go hiding, motivation/confidence whatever it is something is missing that management have to take responsibility for. And I’m in the same boat about the clear out it’s the first time since I’ve followed there’s not one player I’d be really gutted if we lost. 

It’s just a consequence of the squad not being strong enough 

[Nuwtfly]

Are we all in agreement that, if we are relegated next weekend, that he needs to go?

Be that resign or sacked?

Or are there any on here who would like to see him lead us into next season in League One? 

Not a loaded question. Just interested to see if relegation is the line we have drawn for him.

[Leeds Ram]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Simple management question to you .

Saturday do you go with a half fit CKR  or play with Sibley as a false 9 in this team which is far more mobile.

            Marshall 

Byrne.        Edmundson. Clarke.   Buchanan     
 

      Shinnie.      Bird.      Knight 

               Sibley 

Joswiak           Lawrence 

 

I'm not a manager and there is a reason why I'm not on the touchline. Personally, as I said in the sheffield wednesday thread, I'd be looking at something similar to what we did in the first half against Blackburn. I've said for the past 4 or 5 games that's the model I would be emulating and sticking too but we haven't. Have an interchanging 'front 3' that utilises the mobility, vision, ball control and movement of the attacking players we do have and I think we'd be seeing more goals, more chances and more points on the board. 

CKR hasn't offered that much in the past 10 games and hip injury or not that mirrors his career.. not much in the way of goal scoring. I think he's best on the bench and if I'd been charge he'd have been there for the past 6 games or so. Against Blackburn when he came on our attacking threat was blunted because he doesn't have the necessary mobility or fluidity to function as part of that style. I was worried the ball wouldn't stick up top without him but more often than not it did because of the way we delivered it to the front man. 

[Curtains]

Just now, Nuwtfly said:

Are we all in agreement that, if we are relegated next weekend, that he needs to go?

Be that resign or sacked?

Or are there any on here who would like to see him lead us into next season in League One? 

Not a loaded question. Just interested to see if relegation is the line we have drawn for him.

I’m fine with Rooney staying if we get relegated but I doubt he will .

I think we might go into administration if we get relegated.

Lose all our young players and trim back everywhere if we survive as a club becomes make no bones about it MM will not fund us 

[rynny]

2 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Are we all in agreement that, if we are relegated next weekend, that he needs to go?

Be that resign or sacked?

Or are there any on here who would like to see him lead us into next season in League One? 

Not a loaded question. Just interested to see if relegation is the line we have drawn for him.

I can't see how he stays either way. 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

3 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Are we all in agreement that, if we are relegated next weekend, that he needs to go?

Be that resign or sacked?

Or are there any on here who would like to see him lead us into next season in League One? 

Not a loaded question. Just interested to see if relegation is the line we have drawn for him.

Has to go. But a lot of this team has to go too.

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I'm not a manager and there is a reason why I'm not on the touchline. Personally, as I said in the sheffield wednesday thread, I'd be looking at something similar to what we did in the first half against Blackburn. I've said for the past 4 or 5 games that's the model I would be emulating and sticking too but we haven't. Have an interchanging 'front 3' that utilises the mobility, vision, ball control and movement of the attacking players we do have and I think we'd be seeing more goals, more chances and more points on the board. 

CKR hasn't offered that much in the past 10 games and hip injury or not that mirrors his career.. not much in the way of goal scoring. I think he's best on the bench and if I'd been charge he'd have been there for the past 6 games or so. Against Blackburn when he came on our attacking threat was blunted because he doesn't have the necessary mobility or fluidity to function as part of that style. I was worried the ball wouldn't stick up top without him but more often than not it did because of the way we delivered it to the front man. 

CKR half  fit is a liability and too slow IMO and smacks   of McClaren type system .

I do have issues with this system being played all the time .

Opposing teams find it easy to defend .

We need more mobility IMO

A fit CKR is a different story.

If he plays Saturday and does well who’s to argue .

Rather play a false 9 with Sibley on Saturday.

A manager has to call it and his head is on the line .

I just think Rooney has to look at this and the system against Wednesday 

[Leeds Ram]

8 minutes ago, Curtains said:

This is the squad last season 

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/Derby-county/2020/2/

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/Derby-county/2019/2/
 

Check the squads and then think of injuries 

You linked the wrong ones but ultimately it kind of proves my point- the essential parts of the squad are very similar- we have replaced bogle with byrne, hamer with marshall (deffo an upgrade), martin with ckr (the one area i do agree is a downgrade) the loans of edmunson and menghi are supposed to have beefed up the defence and are more than an adequate replacement for an injured davies and Roberts is just as good as jof who is now at rotherham. So where are the massive deficiencies that have led us to this position?

[Taribo]

3 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I'm not a manager and there is a reason why I'm not on the touchline. Personally, as I said in the sheffield wednesday thread, I'd be looking at something similar to what we did in the first half against Blackburn. I've said for the past 4 or 5 games that's the model I would be emulating and sticking too but we haven't. Have an interchanging 'front 3' that utilises the mobility, vision, ball control and movement of the attacking players we do have and I think we'd be seeing more goals, more chances and more points on the board. 

CKR hasn't offered that much in the past 10 games and hip injury or not that mirrors his career.. not much in the way of goal scoring. I think he's best on the bench and if I'd been charge he'd have been there for the past 6 games or so. Against Blackburn when he came on our attacking threat was blunted because he doesn't have the necessary mobility or fluidity to function as part of that style. I was worried the ball wouldn't stick up top without him but more often than not it did because of the way we delivered it to the front man. 

a) we haven't got a fit striker (throwing Cresswell in is not an option for me for such a big game);

b) an interchanging front three of wingers has been tried - by Rooney, Cocu and Lampard - and failed on all occasions.

I'm not sure of the answer, or even if it was question.... 

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, Leeds Ram said:

You linked the wrong ones but ultimately it kind of proves my point- the essential parts of the squad are very similar- we have replaced bogle with byrne, hamer with marshall (deffo an upgrade), martin with ckr (the one area i do agree is a downgrade) the loans of edmunson and menghi are supposed to have beefed up the defence and are more than an adequate replacement for an injured davies and Roberts is just as good as jof who is now at rotherham. So where are the massive deficiencies that have led us to this position?

Well you make good points but can you remember the end of last season. 
 

Didn’t we capitulate from a position of fighting for top 6 to hardly winning.

[GboroRam]

Rooney as manager is like the equivalent of me applying for a job as CEO of a fortune 500 business. 

I've never failed once managing a fortune 500 business. I might be really really good at it. 

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

CKR half  fit is a liability and too slow IMO and smacks   of McClaren type system .

I do have issues with this system being played all the time .

Opposing teams find it easy to defend .

We need more mobility IMO

A fit CKR is a different story.

If he plays Saturday and does well who’s to argue .

Rather play a false 9 with Sibley on Saturday.

A manager has to call it and his head is on the line .

I just think Rooney has to look at this and the system against Wednesday 

I don't disagree with this- the distinct problem we've got is that the manager hasn't given us a style and that's by his own admission. It's remarkable that after 31 games in charge he hasn't stamped an identity on this team and ultimately that's why we're losing and not playing to the potential that is in that squad. I think if Rooney had stuck to the shape and style of that first half against Blackburn we'd be out of trouble by now. He didn't and instead the 'mirroring' process has been repeated to absolutely dire results. 

[BondJovi]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Well you make good points but can you remember the end of last season. 
 

Didn’t we capitulate from a position of fighting for top 6 to hardly winning.

Already been pointed out, we dropped to midtable form. Hardly a collapse but we did well to even be in with a chance of top 6. And we did our best run without Bielik...

[BaaLocks]

12 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Are we all in agreement that, if we are relegated next weekend, that he needs to go?

Be that resign or sacked?

Or are there any on here who would like to see him lead us into next season in League One? 

Not a loaded question. Just interested to see if relegation is the line we have drawn for him.

I'm with Simon Jordan on this - who made the point on Talksport that there is more logic in keeping him if we are relegated. He can learn his craft a bit and build his team. Many on here would say that's not possible (I can sympathise that if we lose seven on the bouce it's hard to justify keeping any manager) but it is fair to say if it's going to happen it can't be at this level. So, my conclusion would be that if we stay up he has to go, if we go down I'd give him till Christmas (but he might not want to stay anyway). The main point regarding keeping him is also if we can afford to lose him - another two years of wages piddled up a wall. We really are the softest touch going.

Oh, and those bemoaning rookie managers, take a look at Rangers - you can poo poo the quality but it didn't work out too bad for them did it?

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, Taribo said:

a) we haven't got a fit striker (throwing Cresswell in is not an option for me for such a big game);

b) an interchanging front three of wingers has been tried - by Rooney, Cocu and Lampard - and failed on all occasions.

I'm not sure of the answer, or even if it was question.... 

In that system that we played against Blackburn in the first half it did work because you don't necessarily need a recognised striker. The strength of that style of a roaming front 3 is that they interchange positions making them hard to mark by keeping the defence off balance, carry the ball and have plenty of movement opening up space for each other and midfielders who come forward. 

[Nuwtfly]

11 minutes ago, Curtains said:

I think we might go into administration if we get relegated.

I am very worried about this too, Curtains.

The financial blow of relegation, coupled with the impacts of COVID, might be one that is just too heavy for the club to take. We have been walking somewhat of a financial tightrope for quite a while now, apparently. 

I think this is why, on a Tuesday morning, I've found myself waking up just feeling so, so annoyed. Annoyed that the club have sleepwalked into this situation.

When we started this season so badly, and sacked our manager when we were two points from safety, it seemed so obvious to me that this was not the right season to roll the dice on a rookie manager. That too much would be a stake should it go wrong, and that an experienced head was needed, even if that was just until the end of the season.

But sadly, choices were made, and we are where we are.

Let's we can find a slice of luck from somewhere in time for this weekend. 

[Curtains]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

In that system that we played against Blackburn in the first half it did work because you don't necessarily need a recognised striker. The strength of that style of a roaming front 3 is that they interchange positions making them hard to mark by keeping the defence off balance, carry the ball and have plenty of movement opening up space for each other and midfielders who come forward. 

He did try it but reverted back to using CKR 

I like that system to be honest 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiShKW576_wAhWNYsAKHX-_D9IQFjADegQIAhAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2F56698956&usg=AOvVaw340zGkH272VRsPITdYJ7jr

[ramsbottom]

22 hours ago, EdinRam said:

I think no matter what he won't be here next season, do you think he will go on to be a good manager? Unlike Frank I don't think Rooney has the tactical brain unfortunately. Top player though.

And considering Fwank didn't have much in the tactics locker other than "Give the ball to Mason & 'Arry", that's not saying much at all...

I think he may do a Roy Keane, have a couple of high profile gigs, do alright, implode on the last one, then think "Sod this game, punditry is the way forward".

[Leeds Ram]

2 minutes ago, Curtains said:

He did try it but reverted back to using CKR 

I like that system to be honest 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiShKW576_wAhWNYsAKHX-_D9IQFjADegQIAhAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2F56698956&usg=AOvVaw340zGkH272VRsPITdYJ7jr

Yeah, the first half against Blackburn was bang on. If he'd have stuck with that as opposed to the mirroring idea he's got going on in his head then I'm fairly confident we wouldn't be where we are now. 

[BaaLocks]

10 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Annoyed that the club have sleepwalked into this situation.

Not sure I agree that we sleepwalked into it, Mel* seems to have been crystal clear for a long time that new blood is needed. What we have done is line ourselves up behind a series of gambles, all of which did not come off.

1: Hiring a manager with (at best) a 50:50 chance of success in Cocu: Raging success in Holland, glorious flop in Turkey. Which one would we get? 

2: Rooney as the celebrity recruit: Which one would we get? The one from DC United that still looked like he had gas in the engine or the flailing pensioner from his second stint at Everton that looked shot and out.

3: Derventio: What would be the outcome? Led a merry dance like Liverpool or Newcastle or the cousin of Man City owners laden with cash?

4: Academy focus: The next version of the Man Utd 'Class of '92' or a location for pillage for bigger clubs to come and pick off anything half decent at bargain basement prices?

To be fair to all, you only needed one of the above to come off and we wouldn't be where we are now. We can all be Monday morning quarter backs (as they say in the USofA) but we have also been incredibly, incredibly unlucky. And we haven't even put Covid, Mel getting ill and injuries to the likes of Bielik, getting the runaround on Dursun, EFL appeal etc in there.

* - to be clear, I am no Mel Morris fanboy btw

Edited May 4, 2021 by BaaLocks