The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[MrPlinkett]

6 hours ago, ImARam2 said:

The Influenza virus mutates every year and that's why all over 60's are offered a flu vaccine every Autumn/Winter season. The flu jab is also available to everyone else as long as they pay for it, which is about £8 per jab.

We'll learn to live with Covid like all other viruses, and except hundreds of cases and deaths every winter like we do with influenza. 

Also other problems, such as smoking, obesity and respiratory issues are factors when a virus takes hold, which will determine if you live or die with the Covid, or influenza.

 

I read that one of the reasons it had hit us hard was our obesity levels. Sometimes health is about personal responsibility and maybe this might help people change their approach to their own lifestyle.

[Mucker1884]

9 minutes ago, MrPlinkett said:

 

I read that one of the reasons it had hit us hard was our obesity levels. Sometimes health is about personal responsibility and maybe this might help people change their approach to their own lifestyle.

Just promise me one thing, mate.

...Don't hold your breath whilst you wait for that new outlook to kick in!   ?

[ariotofmyown]

7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I disagree. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths were all falling in late November and it looked as if we were through the worst of it. Then came the B117 Kent/UK variant, much more transmissible and so it spread quickly and too hold. It was unexpected. So it became a race between the vaccination campaign and the spread of the new variant. The government and its scientists took very bold decisions, on the balance of risk, such as only giving one dose to vaccinate more people (Faucci in the US and the EU scientists were very disparaging) and strictly vaccinating the most vulnerable in order, despite the calls in the media and political opponents to vaccinate teachers etc first.

As you'd expect in an unprecedented situation, our politicians have got some things wrong but they've got a lot right. And these were brilliant calls in the teeth of fierce opposition, the government working hand in hand with the experts. The difference between then and now is the race to vaccinate before the virus spread was won. The Indian variant simply cannot cause the mayhem the B117 variant did because everyone vulnerable has been offered the vaccine and almost all of those have had it. It's possible if it proves really bad that cases and hospitalizations may go up a bit, but not to any kind of level that jeopardizes healthcare. We're at the stage when the thing is endemic and we will just have to live with it as a regular disease like everything else, coming back a little towards winter as seasonal respiratory viruses do. 

You are debating a different point there. I was talking about "before the 2nd wave" ie September time.

When those pesky scientists were forecasted lots of deaths in November and sections of our terrible media asked questions about this. When the Tory party put out tweets saying Starmer wanted to destroy the economy for suggesting we follow scientific advise and lockdown again, only to bring in the November lockdown a few days later.

You skipped past all that and suggest the Kent variant announcement in mid-December was the start of the 2nd wave, when it was actually the time the 2nd wave got even worse. 

I hope you are right about the Indian variant, but there were also optimistic hopes that a 2nd wave could never be as bad/could never happen. Parts of the media pushed this dangerous narrative over the Summer and Autumn, but this never seems to provoke the same anger as when the media asks questions from the opposite point of view.

[MrPlinkett]

8 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

Just promise me one thing, mate.

...Don't hold your breath whilst you wait for that new outlook to kick in!   ?

Well no, it would seem the rise in cases in Blackburn and Bolton are in areas where the take up of the vaccine is significantly lower than the nation average.

So no, there is no hope at times.

[G STAR RAM]

9 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

It seems people get overly angry with the media when they know the government they vote for is hopeless. A strong, competent government would render this supposedly horrid media useless. But the government is not good.

So am I correct in assuming that if the Government imposed some sort of media ban that you wouldn't then start saying that they were attacking free speech?

Just to bring this post back on to topic:

Independent headline 14 May 2021 'Scientists call for 'surge' vaccinations as Covid cases almost triple in England'

From the Uk Government Government coronavirus dashboard 13 May 2021 'Between 7 May 2021 and 13 May 2021, 16,079 people had a confirmed positive test result. This shows an increase of 12.4% compared to the previous 7 days'.

 

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

You were saying the same thing last September. We are all hoping you aren't wrong again.

Quote

Hancock confident jab works against Indian variant

These sorts of comments could be found hidden in most of the scare-mongering articles if you survived long enough to read that far!

Edited May 16, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

So am I correct in assuming that if the Government imposed some sort of media ban that you wouldn't then start saying that they were attacking free speech?

Just to bring this post back on to topic:

Independent headline 14 May 2021 'Scientists call for 'surge' vaccinations as Covid cases almost triple in England'

From the Uk Government Government coronavirus dashboard 13 May 2021 'Between 7 May 2021 and 13 May 2021, 16,079 people had a confirmed positive test result. This shows an increase of 12.4% compared to the previous 7 days'.

 

It's horribly confusing at best, deliberate scaremongering at worst. I can only assume that the 'tripling' refers to the 'Indian variant' cases, but something something ass you me something.

[G STAR RAM]

17 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It's horribly confusing at best, deliberate scaremongering at worst. I can only assume that the 'tripling' refers to the 'Indian variant' cases, but something something ass you me something.

The story actually said that casea had tripled in some areas.

So in my mind that is exactly what the headline should say, not cases almost triple in England. 

The sad thing is these stories lead to mass hysteria, which in turn leads to more pressure being applied on the Government to delay re-opening.

Data not dates, unfortunately, appears to have been replaced by pandering to ever shouts loudest.

If we were following data not dates, everywhere would be re-open by now as the rise in cases from school re-opening, that we were told was inevitable never materialised.

[ariotofmyown]

58 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

He's not, but that is not an argument for this thread.

Good point. However, it meant you also avoided my main point about where was this media criticism last Summer, when mis-leading articles were suggesting there would be no 2nd wave and we'd pretty much reached herd immunity? They turned out to be massively wrong, and as these points were being made by the Government's friends, probably contributed to more deaths and a more severe impact on the economy.

There seems to be outrage that the media might be exaggerating the threat now, but possibly delaying the removal of restrictions by a few weeks seems rather minor relative to the disaster we saw during the Winter.

A SAGE advisor said today it's:  "“a perilous moment … We have a variant that shows good evidence of being more transmissible and possibly significantly more transmissible … And the other thing that we do know is that this new variant from India is actually quite widely distributed across the country.”

"He said there was a chance that the Indian variant of the virus could cause substantial problems among “people that haven’t been vaccinated yet, people who are only partially protected because they’ve had one vaccination, and … in a small percentage of cases the vaccination for whatever reasons doesn’t work.”

He said vaccines would largely protect people against severe infection and death but said a small fraction of a very large number of infections could lead to significant numbers of deaths and hospitalisations."

Do you think our terrible media should not be reporting this view from a Government advisor?

The government has regularly reacted too slowly throughout Covid and I don't think anyone wants to risk a bad 3rd wave and yet more long term restrictions.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

If we were following data not dates, everywhere would be re-open by now as the rise in cases from school re-opening, that we were told was inevitable never materialised.

except in Long Eaton. Nearly all of the hundred and forty odd cases there link back directly (or indirectly, via secondary community transmission), to Wilsthorpe School.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Eddie

[Bob The Badger]

On 15/05/2021 at 13:44, Scott129 said:

Had my jab at the arena today.

Say what you want about how we've handled the pandemic overall, but our vaccination program has been superbly organised.

Couldn't walk 5 steps without a marshall pointing me in the right direction and I was in and out in a flash.

How drunk were you that you were going in the wrong direction inside 5 steps every time?

[angieram]

Leave the politics out, please.

Edited May 16, 2021 by angieram

[Comrade 86]

What evidence is there of mass hysteria or the legions of terrified people that are being referred to in this thread? All I can see is people starting to return to their 'normal lives'. Seems to me that using terms like 'mass hysteria' is every bit as daft as the clickbait nonsense we see from the UK press. 

[Bob The Badger]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Leave the politics out, please.

Oops, when did that happen?

[G STAR RAM]

56 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Good point. However, it meant you also avoided my main point about where was this media criticism last Summer, when mis-leading articles were suggesting there would be no 2nd wave and we'd pretty much reached herd immunity? They turned out to be massively wrong, and as these points were being made by the Government's friends, probably contributed to more deaths and a more severe impact on the economy.

There seems to be outrage that the media might be exaggerating the threat now, but possibly delaying the removal of restrictions by a few weeks seems rather minor relative to the disaster we saw during the Winter.

A SAGE advisor said today it's:  "“a perilous moment … We have a variant that shows good evidence of being more transmissible and possibly significantly more transmissible … And the other thing that we do know is that this new variant from India is actually quite widely distributed across the country.”

"He said there was a chance that the Indian variant of the virus could cause substantial problems among “people that haven’t been vaccinated yet, people who are only partially protected because they’ve had one vaccination, and … in a small percentage of cases the vaccination for whatever reasons doesn’t work.”

He said vaccines would largely protect people against severe infection and death but said a small fraction of a very large number of infections could lead to significant numbers of deaths and hospitalisations."

Do you think our terrible media should not be reporting this view from a Government advisor?

The government has regularly reacted too slowly throughout Covid and I don't think anyone wants to risk a bad 3rd wave and yet more long term restrictions.

Were you asleep last summer? The mainstream media has done nothing but hype this up for the last 14 months, to the point where some people were literally scared to leave their house.

Sure there were lots more people putting up counter arguments as more evidence became available. 

Yes I think they should be reporting what the Government adviser is saying. They should also be asking why they are not considering the large proportion of the population has been vaccinated, and that the ones that have not been offered the vaccine are unlikely to become seriously ill, and also if people have been offered the vaccine and not had it then they need to manage their own risk.

The purpose of these lockdowns and measures was to reduce the pressure on the NHS. It has NEVER been sold to us as a zero Covid approach and if that is now the case we should be told so we can make our own decisions.

If the Indian variant is so much more transmissible why did Sage not advise to stop repatriations from India as soon as it became apparent?

 

[Bob The Badger]

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Leave the politics out, please.

I'm being serious btw, I was in this thread in days of yore and it was all politics.

[MrPlinkett]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57134181

Hopefully good news.  Disappointing to read that it appears most of those hospitalised were eligible for the vaccine but hadn't come forward to have it.

Hopefully they DO live to regret that decision. 

[angieram]

25 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I'm being serious btw, I was in this thread in days of yore and it was all politics.

It wasn't all politics but it kept veering into political debate. That's why it eventually got closed down. 

This thread has managed to steer clear of politics in the main. Hence the friendly reminder.

[rammieib]

6 hours ago, MrPlinkett said:

 

I read that one of the reasons it had hit us hard was our obesity levels. Sometimes health is about personal responsibility and maybe this might help people change their approach to their own lifestyle.

Agreed - good thing all fast food outlets remained open throughout every lockdown.

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Genuine question here, is it the Government leading the vaccination programme or the NHS?

The NHS, on behalf of the government, on behalf of the big Pharmaceutical companies.