Bubbles Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 mardy bums... @B4ev6ishow you feeling about this news pal Steele on commentary, your best mate ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Yes it's a coincidence. Edit: Have you heard of 'ageism'?There's a difference between 'whataboutisms' and trying to see what it is that made Ramage come out with the words he did. Making out that some people are 'other' will not help reconcile differences, nor understanding of the same and certainly not acceptance and/or celebration. The thing is, I don't think there's a "what about" to be had in this situation. He's made a very crass, misinformed & racist comment. I very much doubt he's got a spare room full of Nazi paraphernalia, or attends Britain First meetings, but his view displays a racist stereotype, so to a certain degree, unfortunately, he is racist. Fortunately Radio Derby have correctly in let him go, which should be the end of it. Hopefully he'll maintain his day job, and not be hounded out of the city. I'm just a little upset that it's taken this incident to prompt his sacking, instead of the numerous examples of poor punditry, especially when compared to his occasional replacement this season, who is 100 times a better analyst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Glad Ramage has gone. Always found him opininated, irritating and much too full of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Time to draw a line under this issue? My take on this: Ramage said something stupid that is difficult to argue wasn’t racial stereotyping and therefore unacceptable. He has apologised publicly (maybe even privately) The BBC has acted in the only way it could or should DCFC have acted correctly in issuing a brief statement but essentially leaving it to BBC I suspect that if Ramage met the players face to face, apologised and fully acknowledged his comment was unacceptable, they’d shake his hand, accept the apology and move on The public should do the same. I’ve not read any of the comments from either side of the argument on the cesspit otherwise known as Twitter but, nothing more is to be gained from laying into Ramage anymore. As several have posted have said, we all make mistakes and have to face the consequences. I’ve certainly made mistakes in my personal and professional life (nothing of this magnitude). I’m not sure what effect it would have had on my mental well being had I been constantly reminded of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said: There’s a lot of loud people on here very critical (rightly so) of what Ramage said but I’d imagine based on experience of living in the area that there’s just as big of a crowd staying silent and not really thinking what he said was all that wrong. We live in an age where Souness is allowed to pile in on Pogba every weekend even when he isn’t playing and let’s be honest, it wouldn’t happen if he looked different... We live in a country where top politicians, most noticeably, our actual PM can say things as bad as this with no repercussions. Ramage is a symptom of a systematically and often subconsciously (sometimes very consciously) racist western world. A lot of people will find offence with this because they themselves are not racist but that doesn’t mean the systems we live in are not. If you’re unsure whether what I’m saying about this country is true then I’d ask you, would you be comfortable growing up as an Asian or black young male in this country? Going back to Ramage, I don’t believe he’s a racist. I believe he’s ignorant and I don’t think that’s a good enough excuse in this day and age but I don’t think he’d say something like that if he knew what he was really suggesting with those words. I hope he’s able to find work after this but I do think his privilege of being paid to talk about football should probably be lost. Ramage deserves all the criticism he's getting. You claiming Souness' criticism of Pogba has anything to do with race is absolutely ridiculous. Not that this would matter anyway since Souness has never even hinted that his issues with Pogba have anything to do with skin colour, but perhaps you ought to educate yourself on Souness' career? Souness was the only Liverpool player who praised Howard Gayle for standing up to racism from Tommy Smith. Souness was the man who pushed changes in the previously insular Scottish league when he signed Mark Walters. It is laughable that you'd attempt to frame his criticism of an under performing player as racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: The thing is...but his view displays a racist stereotype, so to a certain degree, unfortunately, he is racist. We are all products of our past, whilst I agree that what he said 'displayed' signs of 'institutional racism' we can't just, as I said. write him off as 'other'. You ignored the fact I pointed out that your original post was ageist, see how easy it is to piss people off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I think it's very hard to say that without actually having experienced it. I sometimes think that if I got into a relationship with a girl of any ethnic minority, I'd feel obliged to tell my grandparents, and perhaps even my parents, of their ethnicity beforehand. I think that's very regrettable and demonstrates that there is still a long way to go. I think anybody who is anti racist and anyone who is just not racist also needs to accept that we aren't all the same. I mean like are some people hoping we get to a stage where a black guy mentions something race relevant and we all have to be like "what??!! You're black?? I genuinely hadn't noticed!!" There are so many interesting conversations to be had with people of other race, religions, nationalities, cultures etc. You can't pretend a black person isn't black. You can't pretend that this guy wearing a turban isn't wearing a turban. If you are then why? Is there something wrong with it? So we have to get this idea that race never being in our minds is never going to happen. I know this isn't relevant to Ramage by the way. But it would be interesting if in a hypothetical situation we only had two black lads and they were both lazy. I mean the first way you would describe Jayden Bogle and Max Lowe is mixed race/black. They are definitely not white. But describing them as mixed race or black eliminates how many players? I would expect both lads are comfortable in their skin. I hope so. Do you know what I mean? Ramage was so off target with this. It's as inaccurate as all his punditry. That inaccuracy has lead people to question his motives and attitude. And that's tough poo. That's where having that motormouth gets you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexxxxx Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Still some real bone head comments on other parts of social media. I hope they dont take calls on bbc tonight.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 One of the weird arguments is everyone moaning about him losing his job and being able to support his family. Him appearing for 3 hours a week on the radio isn't his actual job! This season more than ever, he's been fairly MIA from Radio Derby... thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Derby telegraph comments are even worse than Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Alpha said: I think anybody who is anti racist (a moron imo) and anyone who is just not racist also needs to accept that we aren't all the same. I mean like are some people hoping we get to a stage where a black guy mentions something race relevant and we all have to be like "what??!! You're black?? I genuinely hadn't noticed!!" There are so many interesting conversations to be had with people of other race, religions, nationalities, cultures etc. You can't pretend a black person isn't black. You can't pretend that this guy wearing a turban isn't wearing a turban. If you are then why? Is there something wrong with it? So we have to get this idea that race never being in our minds is never going to happen. I know this isn't relevant to Ramage by the way. But it would be interesting if in a hypothetical situation we only had two black lads and they were both lazy. I mean the first way you would describe Jayden Bogle and Max Lowe is mixed race/black. They are definitely not white. But describing them as mixed race or black eliminates how many players? Do you know what I mean? Ramage was so off target with this. It's as inaccurate as all his punditry. That inaccuracy has lead people to question his motives and attitude. And that's tough poo. That's where having that motormouth gets you. Of course we're never going to reach the point where we literally don't notice race, and you make valid points about the worthiness of being exposed to different cultures. But my point was that the average young black lad is going to face more difficulties than the average young white lad. Maybe less than a young Asian lad at this moment in time, but still. Ramage's comments only serve to demonstrate this, as does the media treatment of Raheem Sterling and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said: One of the weird arguments is everyone moaning about him losing his job and being able to support his family. Him appearing for 3 hours a week on the radio isn't his actual job! This season more than ever, he's been fairly MIA from Radio Derby... thankfully. This was one of the main rationalisations for him being so bad with knowledge of other teams and players, which was frankly ridiculous when you could speak to anyone who goes to games and they'd know as much if not a lot more than he did. So to have that position was laughable to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Time to draw a line under this issue? My take on this: Ramage said something stupid that is difficult to argue wasn’t racial stereotyping and therefore unacceptable. He has apologised publicly (maybe even privately) The BBC has acted in the only way it could or should DCFC have acted correctly in issuing a brief statement but essentially leaving it to BBC I suspect that if Ramage met the players face to face, apologised and fully acknowledged his comment was unacceptable, they’d shake his hand, accept the apology and move on The public should do the same. I’ve not read any of the comments from either side of the argument on the cesspit otherwise known as Twitter but, nothing more is to be gained from laying into Ramage anymore. As several have posted have said, we all make mistakes and have to face the consequences. I’ve certainly made mistakes in my personal and professional life (nothing of this magnitude). I’m not sure what effect it would have had on my mental well being had I been constantly reminded of them. I agree with much of what you say - Ramage should be forgiven. No crime has been committed. Maybe he shouldn’t even be sacked per se - but they so clearly need to get someone else in. To ask a professional broadcaster to simply not say anything racist into a microphone ever is such an incredibly low bar, I can’t even believe we’re discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Of course we're never going to reach the point where we literally don't notice race, and you make valid points about the worthiness of being exposed to different cultures. But my point was that the average young black lad is going to face more difficulties than the average young white lad. Maybe less than a young Asian lad at this moment in time, but still. Ramage's comments only serve to demonstrate this, as does the media treatment of Raheem Sterling and others. Sorry but this attempt to quantify level of difficulty faced by different groups is erroneous and gets us nowhere. Circumstances vary and the amount hassle faced depends on many social factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, DRBee said: Sorry but this attempt to quantify level of difficulty faced by different groups is erroneous and gets us nowhere. Circumstances vary and the amount hassle faced depends on many social factors. I didn't try to quantify it. I just said that black people, on average, will face more challenges than white people based on the colour of their skin. Of course, that doesn't mean that every white person lives an easier life than every black person, but it's an immediate disadvantage to be an ethnic minority in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utisbug Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Josh said: I think most people acknowledge it’s wrong, you say people can’t say he isn’t racist, yet you can’t call him a racist then surely? ? Yes, I am. I'm saying any man that says what he says is racist. If you disagree, you're part of the problem. End of. Those comments are so alien to somebody not racist. What a ridiculous debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Of course we're never going to reach the point where we literally don't notice race, and you make valid points about the worthiness of being exposed to different cultures. But my point was that the average young black lad is going to face more difficulties than the average young white lad. Maybe less than a young Asian lad at this moment in time, but still. Ramage's comments only serve to demonstrate this, as does the media treatment of Raheem Sterling and others. Yeah I agree. This is why I find much of the Anti Racist stuff really frustrating because it makes it such a routine thing. Policing it the way they do becomes tedious that when somebody does go off target like Ramage here then there's kind of this "You can't say anything anymore" and "Precious Snowflake" reaction I think they do a lot of damage. There's a guy in boxing called Spencer Fearon. I wouldn't call him racist like many have. But he is so quick to defend his race that any point he may have is lost in his preaching. He's not anti white but he's pro black kinda thing. Imo he does far more harm than good because he's defending things that don't need defending. He's the example of the "is it cuz I is black" phrase. He could genuinely have a point one day and all it would do is get an eye roll reaction. He is not helping. He doesn't need to tell me every two minutes that this person is black and it doesn't matter. It does matter! It matters to you ffs!!! But he's always there. Trying to find racism where there is often just race/cultural differences. Gone well of topic here innit? If I'm Max Lowe and I hear Ramage say that my first thought is "I'm not lazy!! I don't need a kick up the arse!! I am black and that's what's included me in this criticism? The black lads aren't doing enough?" Every right to be angry with the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotter Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Ramage is clearly short of a few brain cells. However, when I first read what he said I interpreted it as him criticising Bogle and Lowe not as him making a racist comment. I wonder how Lowe would have reacted if Ramage had been singing praises rather than criticising?! I doubt he would have said anything at all. Having said all that, what a stupid way to put it Ramage! Final warning and move on, and yes go and apologise face to face and shake hands Ramage. Life is far too short for all this drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Ramage isn't racist and its OK to be white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hotter said: Ramage is clearly short of a few brain cells. Have you considered his oral presentation has alot to do with heading the ball for twenty years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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