Max Lowe Racial Stereotyping

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

So you think his words only worthy of sanction if there is provable intent behind them? Otherwise, you're 'ambivalent'?

Am ambivalent as I said. Were his words deliberately racially motivated or were they totally ill thought out. What we do know is that Radio Derby are looking for another summariser and the players affected and club can hopefully draw a line under this unfortunate episode.

[Bob The Badger]

3 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

So you think his words only worthy of sanction if there is provable intent behind them? Otherwise, you're 'ambivalent'?

I think intent is important mate.

My dad never got his head around the change from calling people coloured to black.

He never meant to cause offence but every so often I'd cringe with what he'd say and tell him after the event.

I agree, that we are looking to change and educate, but I think there is a world of difference between deliberately being abusive and not being sure what to say. Or, being ignorant of what to say.

I'm generalizing and not sure this applies to Ramage. As somebody on public radio he should know better.

But, overall I think intent is a huge factor.

We have ALL unintentionally hurt somebody with the words we have used, that doesn't mean we are all bad or hurtful people.

 

 

[Millenniumram]

[David]

I don’t like to see anyone lose their job and he won’t need me to tell him what he said was unacceptable. 

He made a mistake, been punished for it and will now have to live with that. I hope he is able to move on from this and doesn’t prevent him finding employment elsewhere. 

The man has a family to provide for, as do many of you. 

Also it’s clear that players either read this forum or people they know read and share content with the players. 

Think about your words, and how powerful they can be. You don’t know what personal battles others are going through. Your words either directly or indirectly could potentially be enough for someone to say....I can’t do this anymore.

 

[goldstar]

Once again, have we learnt nothing from Caroline Flack? Horrible mistake to make, it's cost him his job. Similar to the Lawrence witch hunt, at what point are people satisfied? When he gets the sack? Done. When he is sent awful tweets rejoicing in his downfall. When he sinks into depression and worse? 

I really don't think he meant anything sinister, i think he was talking about his personal views about Bogle and Lowe and instead of referring by name, he chose a description most of us bend over backwards to avoid using as it has bad connotations. I also think he was lumping Bennett in there subconsciously about attitude, and by all he meant those he was referring to, not all black men. But then thats my take, shouldn't have happened but it did. 

I may be alone in thinking it, but this level of vitriol is rabid and people act as vigilantes. Racism is terrible, colour of skin means nothing and we dont choose how we are born. We can choose however, to have compassion and be forgiving. He hasn't murdered anyone, raped anyone, he has made an insensitive comment. Some of those tweeting #bekind are the very ones sending hateful messages. Just stop. 

[DazaDunn]

I often wonder what it must be like having 30,000 people comment on your performance in your job. I imagine how I’d feel being boo’d for misspelling an email, or missing the bin when I send the remains of my lunch 10 ft through the air in an attempt to save a walk to the bin. 

I imagine eventually you do become worn down

 

[Bob The Badger]

5 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t like to see anyone lose their job and he won’t need me to tell him what he said was unacceptable. 

He made a mistake, been punished for it and will now have to live with that. I hope he is able to move on from this and doesn’t prevent him finding employment elsewhere. 

The man has a family to provide for, as do many of you. 

Also it’s clear that players either read this forum or people they know read and share content with the players. 

Think about your words, and how powerful they can be. You don’t know what personal battles others are going through. Your words either directly or indirectly could potentially be enough for someone to say....I can’t do this anymore.

 

Excellent. 

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Am ambivalent as I said. Were his words deliberately racially motivated or were they totally ill thought out. What we do know is that Radio Derby are looking for another summariser and the players affected and club can hopefully draw a line under this unfortunate episode.

I agree that Ramage can't be categorised as overtly racist based on this single outburst, but we know what was said, we know the targets of his little diatribe were upset, we know his employer deemed it a sackable offence, we know the club wanted action taken and we also know that Ramage himself has apologised.

We also know that his demise is entirely of his own making. Nobody else was involved nor was he in any way coerced or encouraged to make the comments in question. Quite what the relevance of his 'intent' is or how you suppose we are meant to surmise the rationale behind his words, is far from clear to me. I'm also uncertain as to why Ramage would be afforded any greater rights than anyone else foolish enough to speak in similar terms in the course of their work.

In so much, while I think what has happened is regrettable, I've no more sympathy for Ramage than I would for anyone else who conducts themselves in this manner. Frankly, I think Jayden and Max rather more worthy of sympathy than Ramage as I doubt this is the first time in their lives, or that it will be the last time for that matter, that they will be made to feel the way they have today.

[blue texel ram]

4 minutes ago, DazaDunn said:

I often wonder what it must be like having 30,000 people comment on your performance in your job. I imagine how I’d feel being boo’d for misspelling an email, or missing the bin when I send the remains of my lunch 10 ft through the air in an attempt to save a walk to the bin. 

I imagine eventually you do become worn down

 

I would be quite happy for 30k people to comment on my performance in my job, I try to save lives on a daily basis to try and feed this country, I earn a similar salary to these lads only difference is there is weekly mine is yearly.

Ramage has made mistake but the world has gone mad

[Mafiabob]

16 minutes ago, David said:

I don’t like to see anyone lose their job and he won’t need me to tell him what he said was unacceptable. 

He made a mistake, been punished for it and will now have to live with that. I hope he is able to move on from this and doesn’t prevent him finding employment elsewhere. 

The man has a family to provide for, as do many of you. 

Also it’s clear that players either read this forum or people they know read and share content with the players. 

Think about your words, and how powerful they can be. You don’t know what personal battles others are going through. Your words either directly or indirectly could potentially be enough for someone to say....I can’t do this anymore.

 

Perfect

[Comrade 86]

19 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I think intent is important mate.

My dad never got his head around the change from calling people coloured to black.

He never meant to cause offence but every so often I'd cringe with what he'd say and tell him after the event.

I agree, that we are looking to change and educate, but I think there is a world of difference between deliberately being abusive and not being sure what to say. Or, being ignorant of what to say.

I'm generalizing and not sure this applies to Ramage. As somebody on public radio he should know better.

But, overall I think intent is a huge factor.

We have ALL unintentionally hurt somebody with the words we have used, that doesn't mean we are all bad or hurtful people.

 

 

I agree but then if intent was proven there'd be no debate here. The fact is that in this day and age we have to be mindful of how we address folk and refer to them. Quite rightly so, in my opinion. Ramage was not and he'll now need to deal with the consequences. That seems entirely more equitable than Jayden and Max having to deal with being stereotyped, intentionally or otherwise.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

To be honest I'm feeling for the bloke. Put into context if he said this in your normal everyday workplace it's certainly not right and could result in dismissal. . But the vitriol he's getting on social media is awful .  As far as I can gather from his time on air his two best mates in football are Paul Williams and Darren Moore who seem to regard him very highly.  I would be more interested in there viewpoint than someone elses with no real knowledge of him as a person.

[Philmycock]

Be kind everyone ? 

[Tyler Durden]

16 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I agree that Ramage can't be categorised as overtly racist based on this single outburst, but we know what was said, we know the targets of his little diatribe were upset, we know his employer deemed it a sackable offence, we know the club wanted action taken and we also know that Ramage himself has apologised.

We also know that his demise is entirely of his own making. Nobody else was involved nor was he in any way coerced or encouraged to make the comments in question. Quite what the relevance of his 'intent' is or how you suppose we are meant to surmise the rationale behind his words, is far from clear to me. I'm also uncertain as to why Ramage would be afforded any greater rights than anyone else foolish enough to speak in similar terms in the course of their work.

In so much, while I think what has happened is regrettable, I've no more sympathy for Ramage than I would for anyone else who conducts themselves in this manner. Frankly, I think Jayden and Max rather more worthy of sympathy than Ramage as I doubt this is the first time in their lives, or that it will be the last time for that matter, that they will be made to feel the way they have today.

Time for bed I think I don't have the mental resilience to respond to some of your points.

You chose to formulate this reply after I quite clearly stated my position twice but for whatever reason you decided to construct the above as if it was in reply to something inappropriate I had said.

If it was meant as a commentary about the situation in general then I take this back and apologise for being over sensitive, if it was meant to be directed at myself then you've read something into my comments that isn't there, deliberately or otherwise 

In either event have a good night 

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said:

Time for bed I think I don't have the mental resilience to respond to some of your points.

You chose to formulate this reply after I quite clearly stated my position twice but for whatever reason you decided to construct the above as if it was in reply to something inappropriate I had said.

If it was meant as a commentary about the situation in general then I take this back and apolgise for being over sensitive, if it was meant to be directed at myself then you're read something into my comments that isn't there deliberately or otherwise 

In either event have a good evening 

It wasn't intended that way at all - I've politely asked your thoughts and politely responded to your replies with my own. Not really sure what the issue is but happy to leave it there nonetheless.

[Tyler Durden]

1 minute ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

It wasn't intended that way at all - I've politely asked your thoughts and politely responded to your replies with my own. Not really sure what the issue is but happy to leave it there nonetheless.

The issue is with myself as am drained due to circumstances nothing to do with yourself or the forum.

I never thought that you were being impolite which is why I put the caveat in about if I am being over sensitive then I apologise which I have been on reflection.

[IslandExile]

I'm sorry Ramage has lost his job and I hope he is able to move on, wiser for the experience.

His apology seems sincere and I do believe in second chances but it would've been difficult.

Something has to happen regarding the vile attacks on social media though. Compare those with the dignified responses of Max Lowe and Jayden Bogle.

[ram1964]

I have mixed feelings about this, obviously Ramage is wrong in saying what he said however unintentional it may have been meant. I also have sympathy and understanding towards the players concerned and support them in their comments.

Never rated Ramage as a pundit/ broadcaster but that is my personal opinion and irrelevant. However spluttering out chit chat continuously I am sure it becomes very easy to phrase opinions inadequately. I am sure Ramage didn't intentionally mean to be racist towards the players concerned but sublimely referred to these individuals by colour rather than useing their individual names.

Very unfortunate for all concerned.I hope all parties can move on from this and put it behind them.

[ram1964]

7 hours ago, TommyPowell said:

the poor mans brainless Robbie Savage

Robbie savage has a brain ?

[TommyPowell]

Just now, ram1964 said:

Robbie savage has a brain ?

comparatively speaking