Wolfie20 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 49 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: I'm sure what he meant to say was, some of these players think they've made it, and compensate with a lack of effort as a result. If he says that, I don't think there's any controversy. The fact that they happen to black shouldn't even be getting a mention. I live in Derbyshire now and if I'm driving and we aren't on, I'll tune in to radio Derby and see how your getting on. Listening to Ramage and his side-kick wouldn't have given you an earthly as to how the game was going. p.s. I think you'll be one of us before too long - after all, moving to Derbyshire is only the first step in that momentous journey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, utisbug said: Absolutely disgusting to see how many people here are willing to say they believe Ramage isn't racist. You're part of the problem if that's your sentiment. None of these people know him, you know only his comments and they are without question racist. The young black players in our side are having to publicly address this and we have fans willing to dispute whether or not the issue is one of racism. Outrageous. The comments are disgraceful, if you can find time to defend the man delivering them in any way then you aren't helping Max Lowe or Jaden Bogle, you're telling them loud and clear this isn't racism, it's just a mistake. Have a word, scumbags. This is what happens when 2/3 of your fan base read The Sun. Do you think Ramage was born, is and will die a racist or could he be racist now and next year not be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, rammieib said: Have you ever said something you dont mean? "I could throttle the kids right now" or "If he goes anywhere near me I'll lynch him" etc. We all say things every day we dont literally mean. I also think Ramage has said something which he regrets, is wrong but I certainly dont think saying one thing makes him racist. He's said this one thing in the wrong forum though, a public forum which needs/must maintain certain standards and his punishment for this sadly results in him losing his job, something he probably loved doing. Of course we all have, but, using your example, you're not stereotyping every kid in the world there by wanting to throttle them. As I've said, for sure there's different levels of being a racist, but a racist is as a racist says or does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, unclej said: Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. This is a wind up, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Well except for the last line this whole post is a load of rubbish. Englands best player last year, QPR to Liverpool to Man City. Hardly a journeyman. Just a successful young black man who won’t toe the line the media and public want... But did you know... he's got a tattoo of a gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Srg said: But did you know... he's got a tattoo of a gun? And the flash twit chucks his money about, buying a house for his mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: I think this depends. Are the offensive things that have been written lazy stereotypes which have been used as tropes during a period of oppression for us white people??? Well one was a stereotype about the 2/3rds of this forum that apparently read The Sun. There was also one about how hard it must be for BAME growing up in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: And the flash twit chucks his money about, buying a house for his mum. Shops at Primark too. Unbelievable. Should be shopping at the British Heart Foundation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: I dont necessarily agree with your first comment. The guy watches them play every single week so I'm sure he's as qualified as anyone to offer comment on their general effort or reported lack of. Ramage has zero interest in our academy so he knows extremely little about the players until they play for the first team. Assuming his sweeping generalisation isn't about the players he's never seen, then his "all young black lads" comment was referring to those who have played for the first team: Bogle, Lowe, Whittaker, Mitchell-Lawson, Bennett, and possibly Holmes (25) and Wisdom (26) depending on whether he still sees the latter two as 'young'. No-one has ever questioned the mentality of Lowe, Mitchell-Lawson, Holmes or Wisdom. Question marks had been raised as to whether Whittaker was ready for the first team, with a minority questioning his attitude due to not closing down quick enough when brought on as a late sub - who knows what Cocu's instructions were when the rest of the time was tiring? Comments have been raised about Bennett's 'professionalism', given 'joiners gate', his inability to stay injury free, etc. But, his effort has never been questioned. He'd run through a brick wall face first if the manager asked him too. On Saturday, Cocu was disappointing with Bogle's "focus" after coming on. Last season his defensive weaknesses were compensated by having two good CBs - so his mistakes weren't penalised as often. This season, his mistakes are capitalised on more often due to having weaker CBs and more finger pointing as a result. Defensively, he's the same as he was last year, but he's improved offensively. Only 3 of the players listed played on Saturday (Wisdom, Holmes and Bogle), so it seems strange to make the sweeping generalisation of all young black players post-match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, ThePrisoner said: Shops at Primark too. Unbelievable. Should be shopping at the British Heart Foundation! And I never even noticed he was black until someone mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, unclej said: Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. QPR academy for 7 years + Liverpool for 5 years + Man City for 5 years = Journeyman? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, unclej said: Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. Who knew that Piers Morgan had an account on this forum....!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Well one was a stereotype about the 2/3rds of this forum that apparently read The Sun. There was also one about how hard it must be for BAME growing up in England. From the looks of this thread it's more like 1/3, but there's a fair few more gammons piping up than usual about this. Wonder why?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 36 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So if I'm offended by some peoples comments in this thread (because I think they stereotype white people) am I ok to call them racist? Absolutely yes you are. If you are genuinely offended (which I don't think you are and you're just playing devils advocaat), but it would be up to you to explain exactly why and on what basis you are offended, and be prepared to fight that corner if and when challenged It's a useful thought exercise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, Srg said: Of course we all have, but, using your example, you're not stereotyping every kid in the world there by wanting to throttle them. As I've said, for sure there's different levels of being a racist, but a racist is as a racist says or does. I don't believe a racist comment automatically makes someone a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said: If you are genuinely offended (which I don't think you are and you're just playing devils advocaat) Be careful, this might snowball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Absolutely yes you are. If you are genuinely offended (which I don't think you are and you're just playing devils advocaat), but it would be up to you to explain exactly why and on what basis you are offended, and be prepared to fight that corner if and when challenged It's a useful thought exercise though. Blimey. And I thought normal advocaat was bad enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: From the looks of this thread it's more like 1/3, but there's a fair few more gammons piping up than usual about this. Wonder why?? And comments like this do so much more to make the situation better do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Blimey. And I thought normal advocaat was bad enough Really? It’s literally alcoholic custard! It even sounds the best thing ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, unclej said: You are as racist as the BAME players think you are. Its an amorphous situation of which non-BAME people have very little say over. For instance, some BAME people are OK with calling each other the N word, but not OK with being called it by non-BAME people. I think some BAME people want to be more equal than others sometimes and it undermines the meaning of the word racist. I know some racist people and its abundantly clear they are racist. I don't disagree, but I don't think we should allow opposition to people who shoehorn identity politics into every facet of life to stop us from calling out actual racism when we see it. I don't agree with the people who seem to want to use this as an opportunity to write Ramage off completely, but in my opinion, what he said was most definitely racist and needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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