GeneralRam Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Mucker1884 said: Sticking my nose in, I think @GeneralRam was quoting his "result" of the test, so they are telling him "Your data suggests..." I don't think he was referring to "you" personally, @Bob The Badger. ...I could be wrong... it wouldn't be the first time! ? You’re correct sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nishfan Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I listen to radio Derby every match - even while I’m watching at PP. Have done for a long time. in my humble opinion there are 2 issues: 1. CR made a completely unacceptable comment & has rightly paid the price. Well done to Max & Bogle for standing up to it. 2. The radio Derby match programme has become increasingly unprofessional from both CR & ED. I didn’t hear the podcast but I did hear ED make the ‘arsed’ comment. If I want to hear words like that I can just take my ear phones out. It’s definitely time for changes. I’d rather there were a small team of ‘pundits’ rather than just the one so it doesn’t get too cosy. Having said that Eric Steele is fabulous & ED definitely doesn’t talk to him in the way he did to CR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotter Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: "So I'd probably say that about all the young black lads". That's saying all young black lads who play for Derby County at various age levels are lazy. How is that not a racist view point. I dont believe that is what he was trying to say at all. He has just not articulated what he is trying to say very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: I'm sure what he meant to say was, some of these players think they've made it, and compensate with a lack of effort as a result. If he says that, I don't think there's any controversy. The fact that they happen to black shouldn't even be getting a mention. I live in Derbyshire now and if I'm driving and we aren't on, I'll tune in to radio Derby and see how your getting on. Never got the impression Ramage was the most eloquent of individuals and not surprised that he was clumsy in his wording like this. I still think he should have been given the opportunity to explain his choice of words mind you. Even take out the racist comment, he’s paid for insight and analysis. His comment is based on nothing more than a whim. Does he know them personally? Does he have sources that tell him they’re arrogant? If so, how does he know that’s impacting their ability to perform? Ramage’s main problem is that he said whatever came into his head. He thought criticism equated to critiquing. It’s very revisionist to say, but it was only a matter of time before his verbal diarrhoea spat out something which got him in trouble. I remember listening in the car to him and Ed Dawes taking pleasure at Ramage’s refusal to even attempt to say the name Benkovic. It’s not a hard name. I couldn’t believe the celebration at the fact that our analyst made no attempt to learn “foreign” names. Radio Derby have something to say for themselves too. I wonder how much training and support Ramage had. It always felt that they just handed him a microphone and gave him all the time in the world to spit out words in a randomly assigned order, hoping they would generate discussion and debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hotter said: I dont believe that is what he was trying to say at all. He has just not articulated what he is trying to say very well. This may be the case but he is a broadcaster. One of the key skills of the job is to articulate what you are trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Srg said: You're getting confused here. Intent literally doesn't matter. You have black people being actually offended by the comments. The comments objectively are racist whether intended or made with malice, that makes the person a racist. As I said earlier, doesn't mean he can't learn from this and doesn't mean he should be hounded, and certainly doesn't necessarily mean he's about to join a Klan rally, but being outwardly racist or having it underneath the skin doesn't matter at all. So if I'm offended by some peoples comments in this thread (because I think they stereotype white people) am I ok to call them racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Duracell said: Even take out the racist comment, he’s paid for insight and analysis. His comment is based on nothing more than a whim. Does he know them personally? Does he have sources that tell him they’re arrogant? If so, how does he know that’s impacting their ability to perform? I dont necessarily agree with your first comment. The guy watches them play every single week so I'm sure he's as qualified as anyone to offer comment on their general effort or reported lack of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShepherdOfTheRams Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 CR may have not meant to say what it sounds like he said, but if in your line of work you’re going to be broadcasting your thoughts and words to the general public you can’t be so stupid as to say something so ridiculous and based on what appears to be zero evidence and not expect to have your job put in jeopardy. I can’t say that Ramage is 100% a racist or anything, but what he said sounded quite a bit like what an ignorant racist would say whether he meant it to or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Anon said: Ramage deserves all the criticism he's getting. You claiming Souness' criticism of Pogba has anything to do with race is absolutely ridiculous. Not that this would matter anyway since Souness has never even hinted that his issues with Pogba have anything to do with skin colour, but perhaps you ought to educate yourself on Souness' career? Souness was the only Liverpool player who praised Howard Gayle for standing up to racism from Tommy Smith. Souness was the man who pushed changes in the previously insular Scottish league when he signed Mark Walters. It is laughable that you'd attempt to frame his criticism of an under performing player as racist. Alright then, let’s pretend it has nothing to do with it. A bloke who captained his country to a World Cup has clearly spent the last 2/3 years underperforming to the point he is vilified and accused of being a bad character for the dressing room when there is no proof of that. Whether you’ll admit it or not; there is (in some corners of society, bigger than we’d care to acknowledge) a resentment to young black, successful men in this country. Look at the way Sterling was treated, how Lingard’s criticism far exceeds any white player playing as badly as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So if I'm offended by some peoples comments in this thread (because I think they stereotype white people) am I ok to call them racist? Well I haven't seen that, but by all means, if there has been then yeah, you crack on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: So if I'm offended by some peoples comments in this thread (because I think they stereotype white people) am I ok to call them racist? I think this depends. Are the offensive things that have been written lazy stereotypes which have been used as tropes during a period of oppression for us white people??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Anon said: Would you agree that what he said was racist? You are as racist as the BAME players think you are. Its an amorphous situation of which non-BAME people have very little say over. For instance, some BAME people are OK with calling each other the N word, but not OK with being called it by non-BAME people. I think some BAME people want to be more equal than others sometimes and it undermines the meaning of the word racist. I know some racist people and its abundantly clear they are racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Alright then, let’s pretend it has nothing to do with it. A bloke who captained his country to a World Cup has clearly spent the last 2/3 years underperforming to the point he is vilified and accused of being a bad character for the dressing room when there is no proof of that. Whether you’ll admit it or not; there is (in some corners of society, bigger than we’d care to acknowledge) a resentment to young black, successful men in this country. Look at the way Sterling was treated, how Lingard’s criticism far exceeds any white player playing as badly as him. Some of the criticism leveled at Pogba is unfair, but when you are brought in on huge wages for a huge fee the microscope will be on you if the club continues to under perform. It's the way he comports himself too. Black players like VVD and Kompany receive near universal praise because they are responsible leaders on and off the pitch. Rashford doesn't get the same level of criticism as Pogba because he comes across as being far more grounded. Jack Grealish gets dogs abuse from some people and has even been attacked on the pitch. I'll have to recuse myself from speaking about Lingard since I've thought he was a little poo who is stealing a living ever since he was on loan here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Srg said: I'll leave out the last portion of this paragraph, but the rest of it I agree with. Being a racist doesn't always require you to have a swastika tattoo or even vote BNP, if you make a comment like Ramage has, you are a racist. That's the only qualification needed. Whether you believe he didn't mean to say that, it doesn't really matter, he said it and therefore he is. He can be educated and can learn from it, and should we all hound him? No, of course not, but we as a society need to learn that making a racist comment does make you a racist whether you hold outward views or they're very hidden in your psyche. Have you ever said something you dont mean? "I could throttle the kids right now" or "If he goes anywhere near me I'll lynch him" etc. We all say things every day we dont literally mean. I also think Ramage has said something which he regrets, is wrong but I certainly dont think saying one thing makes him racist. He's said this one thing in the wrong forum though, a public forum which needs/must maintain certain standards and his punishment for this sadly results in him losing his job, something he probably loved doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Look at the way Sterling was treated, how Lingard’s criticism far exceeds any white player playing as badly as him. Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, unclej said: Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. The front page press aren't writing disparaging articles about Sterling because he's a goal hanger. Good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 47 minutes ago, Duracell said: Wh-what? Where has that come from? Who said it wasn’t okay to be white? It’s not about whether he is racist or not. It’s about setting the incredibly low bar for a broadcaster to not say something racist into a microphone - this stuff matters. No one should be locked up, unforgiven, chastised indefinitely or condemned for slipping up with one ignorant comment. People who do just shouldn’t be professional broadcasters. Just like if you have clumsy hands you shouldn’t be a brain surgeon, if you can’t control your temper you shouldn’t be a teacher, and if you can’t catch crosses you shouldn’t be a goalkeeper. Good point. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, unclej said: Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. Well except for the last line this whole post is a load of rubbish. Englands best player last year, QPR to Liverpool to Man City. Hardly a journeyman. Just a successful young black man who won’t toe the line the media and public want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said: The front page press aren't writing disparaging articles about Sterling because he's a goal hanger. Good lord. They filled their pages with comment about his lack of loyalty and they will do again... Nowt to do with the colour of his skin but Trevor Phillips will tell us all it is and we'll have to go along with it for fear of offending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, unclej said: Sterling is a horrible little player, nothing to do with the colour of his skin. He's a journeyman, a diver and a goal hanger. I never noticed Lingards colour when he was with us. A journeyman? He's had two clubs as a senior player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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