G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Absolutely yes you are. If you are genuinely offended (which I don't think you are and you're just playing devils advocaat), but it would be up to you to explain exactly why and on what basis you are offended, and be prepared to fight that corner if and when challenged It's a useful thought exercise though. I dont take offence to anything I read on an internet forum, written by people that I dont know. However, I imagine there are some that could take offence to some of the things written. I mean I buy The Sun sometimes (for the football and horse racing pullouts) and because of that one poster on here has pretty much inferred that makes me a racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Anon said: I don't disagree, but I don't think we should allow opposition to people who shoehorn identity politics into every facet of life to stop us from calling out actual racism when we see it. I don't agree with the people who seem to want to use this as an opportunity to write Ramage off completely, but in my opinion, what he said was most definitely racist and needs to be addressed. And it has been via an apology from both himself and his employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, ThePrisoner said: Be careful, this might snowball... Very very good indeed... gets better and better with age too, unlike snowballs.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Listening to Ramage and his side-kick wouldn't have given you an earthly as to how the game was going. p.s. I think you'll be one of us before too long - after all, moving to Derbyshire is only the first step in that momentous journey I wouldn't count on it. Plans are to go to Lancashire some point this year.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: And it has been via an apology from both himself and his employer. Yes, good point, although I'd be up for Ramage actually explaining his thought process rather than just apologising, but that could cause more trouble than it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: And comments like this do so much more to make the situation better do you think? I'm merely commenting, same as you. Just highlighting that a lot of people who you don't see post very often are commenting about it... 16 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I dont take offence to anything I read on an internet forum, written by people that I dont know. However, I imagine there are some that could take offence to some of the things written. I mean I buy The Sun sometimes (for the football and horse racing pullouts) and because of that one poster on here has pretty much inferred that makes me a racist? Not at all, I'm inferring those that are defending what Ramage said are, to a certain degree, racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utisbug Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Yet some people would say its views like yours that are part of the problem. Basically you say people cant defend because they dont know him, yet you appoint yourself as judge and jury despite the fact, well an assumption, that you too dont know him. Some people actually believe that comments can be made that have racist undertones but have no actual intent, so a person that is not racist could make a comment that some find racist but others dont. I mean you dont seem too fussed about stereotyping when you cast your aspersions about people who read The Sun. People in glass houses and all that.. Its genuinely unbelievable how many of you don't get it. Of course I can judge him on the words he's said. You can't mitigate what he said by saying oh but look, he's a good guy. Surely, you understand that. I'm saying nobody can judge him on anything other than his comments. It's an injustice to the black community to mitigate comments that stereotype them based on skin colour and that is what Ramage did when he made his comments. It matters not what you think of him as a person. It's not the job of anyone to defend comments like his less go into the reasons why. All we can do as onlookers is call it out, label it, and denounce those carrying the message. Only that way can black people be truly be protected against comments like this. Both max and Jaden are clearly effected by Ramage's words and if I were them and I saw supporters of the team I played for taking time out of their day to defend Ramage as opposed to condemning him then I'd feel let down. Theres an obvious problem with racism in football, now is not the time to be standing by people making racist comments. Black players of every team should feel the fans they play for are ready to point out and exile racists within their group and here on this forum plenty of Derby fans think it's time to stand up for Ramage. Either I'm losing my mind or the guy who works for Radio Derby as a commentator said "So I’d probably say that about all the young black lads, all the young advice if they wanted it, that, you know, it’s about, when you are struggling for form, you are going through a sticky patch, it’s about going back to basics, working hard, and doing the right things." If you're claiming that isn't racist you're letting those "young black lads" down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I didn't try to quantify it. I just said that black people, on average, will face more challenges than white people based on the colour of their skin. Of course, that doesn't mean that every white person lives an easier life than every black person, but it's an immediate disadvantage to be an ethnic minority in this country. You misunderstand, it was the separation and comparison of black and Asian I was commenting on , not the references to white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Anon said: Yes, good point, although I'd be up for Ramage actually explaining his thought process rather than just apologising, but that could cause more trouble than it's worth. Should be no trouble to him at all now that he has lost his job. 5 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I'm merely commenting, same as you. Just highlighting that a lot of people who you don't see post very often are commenting about it... Not at all, I'm inferring those that are defending what Ramage said are, to a certain degree, racist I dont keep check on who is posting and when so cant really comment on your first point. Completely disagree with your second point and dont think I have seen anyone defending what Ramage said, apologies if this is wrong. 4 minutes ago, utisbug said: Its genuinely unbelievable how many of you don't get it. Of course I can judge him on the words he's said. You can't mitigate what he said by saying oh but look, he's a good guy. Surely, you understand that. I'm saying nobody can judge him on anything other than his comments. It's an injustice to the black community to mitigate comments that stereotype them based on skin colour and that is what Ramage did when he made his comments. It matters not what you think of him as a person. It's not the job of anyone to defend comments like his less go into the reasons why. All we can do as onlookers is call it out, label it, and denounce those carrying the message. Only that way can black people be truly be protected against comments like this. Both max and Jaden are clearly effected by Ramage's words and if I were them and I saw supporters of the team I played for taking time out of their day to defend Ramage as opposed to condemning him then I'd feel let down. Theres an obvious problem with racism in football, now is not the time to be standing by people making racist comments. Black players of every team should feel the fans they play for are ready to point out and exile racists within their group and here on this forum plenty of Derby fans think it's time to stand up for Ramage. Either I'm losing my mind or the guy who works for Radio Derby as a commentator said "So I’d probably say that about all the young black lads, all the young advice if they wanted it, that, you know, it’s about, when you are struggling for form, you are going through a sticky patch, it’s about going back to basics, working hard, and doing the right things." If you're claiming that isn't racist you're letting those "young black lads" down. As above, dont think I have seen anyone defending his comments. Injustice to the black community? He was on about young black players at Derby County. Completely wrong of him to do it but also wrong of you to drag the whole black community into the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utisbug Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Should be no trouble to him at all now that he has lost his job. I dont keep check on who is posting and when so cant really comment on your first point. Completely disagree with your second point and dont think I have seen anyone defending what Ramage said, apologies if this is wrong. As above, dont think I have seen anyone defending his comments. Injustice to the black community? He was on about young black players at Derby County. Completely wrong of him to do it but also wrong of you to drag the whole black community into the argument. Jesus Christ. Where are they dragging you lot up from. Grow up. Are you 8 years old? It's the black community, some of the black community, part of the black community. I didn't say the entire black community. Who cares? What a bizarre point to raise and an irrelevant point to take issue with. If you're suggesting nobody on here is defending Ramages comments then I accept your apologies and jog on, your comments ergo are moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Mad how we've got posters trying to explain what Ramage might have been trying to say when we all heard what he actually did say, and the subsequent apology which didn't really try to say he meant something different. I think we let Ramage speak for himself, and judging what he has said so far, he comes across as a racist. And good lord, some of the posts on here...what would Max and Jayden be saying if they read this thread? "Well what about the reverse racism? PC gone mad! *obviously what Ramage said was wrong..* BUT IT'S OKAY TO BE WHITE!!" Is this the time? Really? Are we not sticking behind our players in the face of blatant racist abuse? God grant me the patience of a dcfcfans moderator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, utisbug said: Jesus Christ. Where are they dragging you lot up from. Grow up. Are you 8 years old? It's the black community, some of the black community, part of the black community. I didn't say the entire black community. Who cares? What a bizarre point to raise and an irrelevant point to take issue with. If you're suggesting nobody on here is defending Ramages comments then I accept your apologies and jog on, your comments ergo are moot. Easy to see how comments can be taken out of context hey? Typical response from someone who doesn't like having their views challenged. Anyway back to my Lego now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tombo said: Mad how we've got posters trying to explain what Ramage might have been trying to say when we all heard what he actually did say, and the subsequent apology which didn't really try to say he meant something different. I think we let Ramage speak for himself, and judging what he has said so far, he comes across as a racist. And good lord, some of the posts on here...what would Max and Jayden be saying if they read this thread? "Well what about the reverse racism? PC gone mad! *obviously what Ramage said was wrong..* BUT IT'S OKAY TO BE WHITE!!" Is this the time? Really? Are we not sticking behind our players in the face of blatant racist abuse? God grant me the patience of a dcfcfans moderator... I've only seen posts saying what Ramage said was wrong and praising the responses of Bogle, Lowe and DCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I've only seen posts saying what Ramage said was wrong and praising the responses of Bogle, Lowe and DCFC. The last one is particularly weird. I wasn't going to name names or call people out, but if we're persisting with being racism apologists rather than just moving on, I have to draw attention. Plus, you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Well one was a stereotype about the 2/3rds of this forum that apparently read The Sun. There was also one about how hard it must be for BAME growing up in England. the first part I can’t comment on, I’d like to think no one I respected read that dirty little rag but each to their own. Some people require more photos when reading ? Are you saying it’s as hard for white people to grow up in this country as people of ethnic minorities? Because I can’t agree with that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Shuff264 said: Derby telegraph comments are even worse than Twitter Why oh why... Was I stupid enough to follow that up, and check for myself! Here I am thinking how glad I am that I don't do twitter, then you send me off to read that drivel! This is your fault! I should put you on Ignore! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraH Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Ramage made a stupid racist remark and was subsequently sacked. He released a public apology. Certain posters on here are now insulting others who don't agree with whatever viewpoint they have. Think i'll put this thread on mute ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tombo said: The last one is particularly weird. I wasn't going to name names or call people out, but if we're persisting with being racism apologists rather than just moving on, I have to draw attention. Plus, you asked. Most of them posts are saying the posters dont believe Ramage is racist. Others are giving their interpretation on what Ramage meant by his comments. I dont see anyone defending racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: the first part I can’t comment on, I’d like to think no one I respected read that dirty little rag but each to their own. Some people require more photos when reading ? Are you saying it’s as hard for white people to grow up in this country as people of ethnic minorities? Because I can’t agree with that at all. So you think it's fine to judge people on what newspaper they read. Do you not see any hypocrisy in people getting angry about stereotyping and then saying this? Well I certainly didnt find it hard growing up in this country as a white person. But there again from conversation I have and what I see, none of my kids Asian friends seem to find it hard growing up in this country now. Do you think there are not areas of this country now where white people would find it hard growing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said: Well except for the last line this whole post is a load of rubbish. Englands best player last year, QPR to Liverpool to Man City. Hardly a journeyman. Just a successful young black man who won’t toe the line the media and public want... What a load of total rubbish ,, who is this public you speak of who want him to toe some implied implied line? Bloody ignorant generalisations on the exact level or even worse than ramage s , my two bobs worth is that ramage has a touch of racism in him given his comment, I would like to think that he is one of those who doesn’t really see it in himself until something like this happens and then is able to think ,jeez did I really say that, I need to take a look at myself as that’s not too good ,,,, of course he could well be racist enough to think young black players fall into a generalised catagory that is negative and if so is probably not going to examine himself but rather feel hard done to, the rubbish you are spouting is on the same level and does nothing positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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