Stive Pesley Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 All I can say is that if some people on here ever find the Politics thread then we're done for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: We are all products of our past, whilst I agree that what he said 'displayed' signs of 'institutional racism' we can't just, as I said. write him off as 'other'. You ignored the fact I pointed out that your original post was ageist, see how easy it is to piss people off! I wasn't writing him off as other. perhaps my implication wasn't implicating enough. I was pointing to the fact that a lot of people who're trying to defend him are of an older generation. Now shurrup you owd get ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, unclej said: Have you considered his oral presentation has alot to do with heading the ball for twenty years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, unclej said: Ramage isn't racist and its OK to be white. Would you agree that what he said was racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, Hotter said: Ramage is clearly short of a few brain cells. However, when I first read what he said I interpreted it as him criticising Bogle and Lowe not as him making a racist comment. I wonder how Lowe would have reacted if Ramage had been singing praises rather than criticising?! I doubt he would have said anything at all. Having said all that, what a stupid way to put it Ramage! Final warning and move on, and yes go and apologise face to face and shake hands Ramage. Life is far too short for all this drama. "So I'd probably say that about all the young black lads". That's saying all young black lads who play for Derby County at various age levels are lazy. How is that not a racist view point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, unclej said: Have you considered his oral presentation has alot to do with heading the ball for twenty years? No. Not unless he spent all that time while was injured heading the ball at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, unclej said: Have you considered his oral presentation has alot to do with heading the ball for twenty years? If he was slurring his speech or talking slower, yes. But that isn't the case and he wasn't really a target man that won loads of balls in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, utisbug said: Yes, I am. I'm saying any man that says what he says is racist. If you disagree, you're part of the problem. End of. Those comments are so alien to somebody not racist. What a ridiculous debate. Yet some people would say its views like yours that are part of the problem. Basically you say people cant defend because they dont know him, yet you appoint yourself as judge and jury despite the fact, well an assumption, that you too dont know him. Some people actually believe that comments can be made that have racist undertones but have no actual intent, so a person that is not racist could make a comment that some find racist but others dont. I mean you dont seem too fussed about stereotyping when you cast your aspersions about people who read The Sun. People in glass houses and all that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I thought this was apt anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Yet some people would say its views like yours that are part of the problem. Basically you say people cant defend because they dont know him, yet you appoint yourself as judge and jury despite the fact, well an assumption, that you too dont know him. Some people actually believe that comments can be made that have racist undertones but have no actual intent, so a person that is not racist could make a comment that some find racist but others dont. I mean you dont seem too fussed about stereotyping when you cast your aspersions about people who read The Sun. People in glass houses and all that.. You're getting confused here. Intent literally doesn't matter. You have black people being actually offended by the comments. The comments objectively are racist whether intended or made with malice, that makes the person a racist. As I said earlier, doesn't mean he can't learn from this and doesn't mean he should be hounded, and certainly doesn't necessarily mean he's about to join a Klan rally, but being outwardly racist or having it underneath the skin doesn't matter at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: All I can say is that if some people on here ever find the Politics thread then we're done for ? Whenever I pass by that thread I just hear the clash of steel on steel and the odd battle cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Please don't jump down my throat on this one chaps, remember I'm a "neutral" party here.. Was there any truth behind what Ramage said at all? Obviously you can't make sweeping statements like that, but do any of the players have attitude/effort issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I wasn't writing him off as other. perhaps my implication wasn't implicating enough. I was pointing to the fact that a lot of people who're trying to defend him are of an older generation. Now shurrup you owd get ? Righteo, I get it now. Whilst slating Ramage for 'casual racism' you were also demonstrating how easy it is to be 'casually ageist'. It's tricky this modern pc lark init. ? ? #COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Please don't jump down my throat on this one chaps, remember I'm a "neutral" party here.. Was there any truth behind what Ramage said at all? Obviously you can't make sweeping statements like that, but do any of the players have attitude/effort issues? Max Lowe's attitude has never been questioned. Bogle's has only in the last week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Please don't jump down my throat on this one chaps, remember I'm a "neutral" party here.. Was there any truth behind what Ramage said at all? Obviously you can't make sweeping statements like that, but do any of the players have attitude/effort issues? No one actually knows, and neither does he. There's no back up to any of it. Some people seem to think Bogle does, I don't particularly think he does, but Max Lowe certainly doesn't and there's never been an intimation of one there. That said, let's not forget that the quote does tend to point to him making a sweeping statement about all young black footballers, not just these two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambalin Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Please don't jump down my throat on this one chaps, remember I'm a "neutral" party here.. Was there any truth behind what Ramage said at all? Obviously you can't make sweeping statements like that, but do any of the players have attitude/effort issues? The answer is yes,and that will be case with some players at any club but it is a easy comment to make when someone has a poor game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Just now, Red_Dawn said: Please don't jump down my throat on this one chaps, remember I'm a "neutral" party here.. Was there any truth behind what Ramage said at all? Obviously you can't make sweeping statements like that, but do any of the players have attitude/effort issues? In short, no. It's just very confusing that he'd choose to specify "black" at all. He was talking specifically about Bogle, and I'd guess he's lumping Lowe in by generalising, but no one has been criticizing Lowe's mentality. What makes it even more confusing is that he also criticised Max Bird in his match summary, yet still chose to specify young black players later in the program. If it was just Bogle, some people would think he had a point, but it's the unwarranted generalization that has caused the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, unclej said: Ramage isn't racist and its OK to be white. Wh-what? Where has that come from? Who said it wasn’t okay to be white? It’s not about whether he is racist or not. It’s about setting the incredibly low bar for a broadcaster to not say something racist into a microphone - this stuff matters. No one should be locked up, unforgiven, chastised indefinitely or condemned for slipping up with one ignorant comment. People who do just shouldn’t be professional broadcasters. Just like if you have clumsy hands you shouldn’t be a brain surgeon, if you can’t control your temper you shouldn’t be a teacher, and if you can’t catch crosses you shouldn’t be a goalkeeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Red_Dawn said: Please don't jump down my throat on this one chaps, remember I'm a "neutral" party here.. Was there any truth behind what Ramage said at all? Obviously you can't make sweeping statements like that, but do any of the players have attitude/effort issues? With both Lowe & Bogle being young players, they're occasionally going to struggle for form. Bogle's made some high profile errors this season that has lead to goals (you know all about one of them) so people can rightly criticise those mistakes, but nobody could provide concrete evidence of him having an attitude problem. Same goes for Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Dawn Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I'm sure what he meant to say was, some of these players think they've made it, and compensate with a lack of effort as a result. If he says that, I don't think there's any controversy. The fact that they happen to black shouldn't even be getting a mention. I live in Derbyshire now and if I'm driving and we aren't on, I'll tune in to radio Derby and see how your getting on. Never got the impression Ramage was the most eloquent of individuals and not surprised that he was clumsy in his wording like this. I still think he should have been given the opportunity to explain his choice of words mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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