The Politics Thread 2020

[ariotofmyown]

I was wrong about Cummings. This evil genius is right out the news since he managed to stir it all up in the US!

[TramRam]

22 minutes ago, Andicis said:

 

All of these brands that have released statements, how many cared about the problem before it became trendy to? And how many will care after? I find it repugnant the amount of narcissism has come from people about this. It's clear America needs to change, but I don't think a lot of these people care about that. I think a lot of them care about making it look like they care about that. 

 

[Comrade 86]

53 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Firstly I don't think some of them mean what they're saying any more than I  believe as many people actually give a feck about the NHS as claim. It stinks of people patting themselves on the back about what a great caring person they are.

Based on what exactly? How do you know what the motivations of a bunch of people on FB are or are you talking about your friends, people you've actually met and are familiar with? If it's the former, what exactly gives you the right to decry folk who voice an opinion you clearly don't share, as being virtue-signalling hypocrites when you don't even know them?

For the record, the whole 'white privilege' thing isn't about making white people feel guilty and it's daft that so many people think it is. It's about acknowledging race bias and the challenges that face ethnic minorities, so that folk who do not fall into any minority group don't accept or trivialise the issues faced by those who do. Why? Because when the majority turn a blind eye to any form of inequality, it inadvertently helps prop up the very systems that hold others down.

And minorities shouldn't have to 'ask nicely' for the same freedoms as others, simply because their skin is a different colour. Equality is a right not some benefit to be earned! I'm amazed that this needs explaining. All people are seeking is that more folk be aware. That's all. The fact that so many opine that this is fake, a burden, etc, etc, is exactly why the questions need addressing in the first place. If you don't feel it, fine, that's your choice and your right, carry on regardless, but pretending the whole thing amounts to nothing more than a means to bash good white folk really isn't a good look.

As a smarter guy than me once opined, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Never a truer word spoken.

 

 

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

We'll all continue to go around in circles for years to come unless we stop looking at surface issues and really understand and tackle the underlying problems.

On that much we agree.  

The underlying problem is inequality - and not just racial but more importantly societal.

You'll note that all the things you are against (identity politics, antifascists, extreme right/left politics etc) all go away if we build a society where equality is a given and not something that people have to constantly fight for

America maybe needs a civil war to get through this and come out the other side with a way forward

They tried a black democrat in the Whitehouse. That didn't make things better. 

They tried a white populist maniac. That's proved to be even worse. 

Sending in the army to attack your own people is not addressing any root causes. It's how civil wars start

 

 

 

[King Kevin]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Just saying that in a country where everyone appears angry and can carry a gun, I'd be to nervous to step outside my front door ?

My brother and sister in law live in North Carolina ,she opens her front door with a gun in her hand.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

58 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Just saying that in a country where everyone appears angry and can carry a gun, I'd be to nervous to step outside my front door ?

The Swiss are just as heavily armed as the Americans, because everyone there is obliged to do national service in the army and to participate in military exercises as a reservist after they have gone back to being civillians. Nobody hears anything about riots or mass shootings in Switzerland, and nobody is afraid to go out.

Switzerland is a prosperous, homogeneous country, even though the speak four different languages (and very boring). The USA has been at war with itself ever since the cowboys and Indians started getting in each other's way. It is the anger caused by massive inequality, institutionalised discrimination and a complete lack of social security that has set the country alight.

[Alph]

46 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's crazy how much virtue signalling has been going on, a lot of which has been done by people who don't care at all. They don't care what happened to George Floyd, they have to maintain their social media image. A lot of the violence and destruction has been done by white anarchists who don't care at all about George Floyd, or any of the other black victims of police brutality, they were just looking for an excuse. 

All of these brands that have released statements, how many cared about the problem before it became trendy to? And how many will care after? I find it repugnant the amount of narcissism has come from people about this. It's clear America needs to change, but I don't think a lot of these people care about that. I think a lot of them care about making it look like they care about that. 

It's the same with NHS and key workers. TV and social media is a constant bombardment of who loves the NHS workers most. Who can care the most. Who can give the most. I think on Thursday night I will climb up on the roof to bang a drum and after that I will sacrifice my youngest child to the Health service Gods!!

Like, I get the gesture. I get that for some people it's a realisation that they have never shown how they appreciate the nhs. But there's actually using events to change the way you look at things and then there's using events as a piggy back to centre stage. 

It's not genuine, it's worse than not caring at all. It's self indulgent ******** and using these people you care about as platform to sell yourself to the masses. 

How many of the Bamfords clapping on a Thursday night were hauling pasta off the shelves while nurses were doing extra hours? 

How many of the Bamfords clapping on a Thursday night will be bitching about waiting times in A&E or moaning about patient care or the competence of nhs workers. 

It's the sickening. People talking poo. Shaping situations and creating outcomes but they're motivations are insincere. 

It was "who loves the nhs the most" 

Now it'll be "who is doing most for equality" 

It would be nice if people actually stopped shouting from the rooftops the most heartwarming poo they could think of and actually quietly plotted away to make a difference in their corner of the world. 

No. We'll have no composure. Just shout "Injustice!!" louder than the next man. 

Then you'll get some good karma points and feck all will change. 

Change come from positivity. Real positivity from real people making heartfelt changes, however big or small. 

[Archied]

White privilege?  What is it ? 
after much thought backwards and forwards since the emergence of the phrase I’ve come to the conclusion it’s a badly worded badly thought out phrase that although well intentioned can switch people off from looking at the very thing it’s supposed to get them to understand,

I am no racist , my family ( the people I love ) is peopled by a mix of shades and backgrounds and as such the white privileged phrase has irked as I’m very anti racist and most certainly don’t want any privilege for being white but listening to some very balanced voices talking about this stomache churning killing ( because that’s what it is ) the bit I get now is that no matter how anti racist I am or how much empathy i have I can not fully understand the experience of facing racism ,

perhaps that’s what the phrase white privilege is trying to get across and to some it will but there’s got to be a better way of phrasing it to get the message across ,

we’ve come a long way ( perhaps much less in USA ) but maybe that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push even harder now to stamp it out 

[GboroRam]

[Rev]

49 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Based on what exactly? How do you know what the motivations of a bunch of people on FB are or are you talking about your friends, people you've actually met and are familiar with? If it's the former, what exactly gives you the right to decry folk who voice an opinion you clearly don't share, as being virtue-signalling hypocrites when you don't even know them?

For the record, the whole 'white privilege' thing isn't about making white people feel guilty and it's daft that so many people think it is. It's about acknowledging race bias and the challenges that face ethnic minorities, so that folk who do not fall into any minority group don't accept or trivialise the issues faced by those who do. Why? Because when the majority turn a blind eye to any form of inequality, it inadvertently helps prop up the very systems that hold others down.

And minorities shouldn't have to 'ask nicely' for the same freedoms as others, simply because their skin is a different colour. Equality is a right not some benefit to be earned! I'm amazed that this needs explaining. All people are seeking is that more folk be aware. That's all. The fact that so many opine that this is fake, a burden, etc, etc, is exactly why the questions need addressing in the first place. If you don't feel it, fine, that's your choice and your right, carry on regardless, but pretending the whole thing amounts to nothing more than a means to bash good white folk really isn't a good look.

As a smarter guy than me once opined, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Never a truer word spoken.

 

 

 

 

I don't think @Alpha's post was necessarily about this situation, more a commentary on the whole social media need to been seen in the best light, regardless of how you personally feel.

I'm not on social media, apart from this site, but looking from the outside in it seems to me certain brands and companies are using this situation, and others before it, to show themselves in a better light than a cursory glance at their employment and manufacturing history would allow, therefore it follows that some individuals will also go down that route.

 

 

 

 

[BriggRam]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

Because the country is being run by a total dickwad, racist, sexist frigging idiot who should stick to being a terrible game show host and leave running a country to the adults...

George Floyds murderers were coppers  long before Trump became president, and things like this have been going on for decades if not centuries in America, how is that Trumps fault

[DarkFruitsRam7]

24 minutes ago, Archied said:

White privilege?  What is it ? 
after much thought backwards and forwards since the emergence of the phrase I’ve come to the conclusion it’s a badly worded badly thought out phrase that although well intentioned can switch people off from looking at the very thing it’s supposed to get them to understand,

I am no racist , my family ( the people I love ) is peopled by a mix of shades and backgrounds and as such the white privileged phrase has irked as I’m very anti racist and most certainly don’t want any privilege for being white but listening to some very balanced voices talking about this stomache churning killing ( because that’s what it is ) the bit I get now is that no matter how anti racist I am or how much empathy i have I can not fully understand the experience of facing racism ,

perhaps that’s what the phrase white privilege is trying to get across and to some it will but there’s got to be a better way of phrasing it to get the message across ,

we’ve come a long way ( perhaps much less in USA ) but maybe that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push even harder now to stamp it out 

I think it's essentially the idea that, for the vast majority of white people, their life won't be made harder by the colour of their skin. The same can't be said of people of colour.

You're right in that a lot of non-racists feel irked by the term. But is that because of the term itself or because they don't want to be made to feel uncomfortable and acknowledge that, on average, people of colour have a harder life? I don't really know, but I suspect it's a mixture of both.

[TramRam]

18 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

I don't think @Alpha's post was necessarily about this situation, more a commentary on the whole social media need to been seen in the best light, regardless of how you personally feel.

I'm not on social media, apart from this site, but looking from the outside in it seems to me certain brands and companies are using this situation, and others before it, to show themselves in a better light than a cursory glance at their employment and manufacturing history would allow, therefore it follows that some individuals will also go down that route.

 

 

 

 

Liverpool, Chelsea and Newcastle have been pictured taking the knee, I quite expect other teams now to do the same, Not in support imo but because they wouldn't want to be seen not to be taking the knee, Sport will be using this to show the public alls well in their camp, By not doing so will get very negative posts on social media.

Troy Deeney recieved death threats via social media because he refused to train under Covid-19 restrictions.

[ariotofmyown]

56 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

My brother and sister in law live in North Carolina ,she opens her front door with a gun in her hand.

She's just worried that you might be visiting!

[A Ram for All Seasons]

9 minutes ago, TramRam said:

Liverpool, Chelsea and Newcastle have been pictured taking the knee, I quite expect other teams now to do the same, Not in support imo but because they wouldn't want to be seen not to be taking the knee, Sport will be using this to show the public alls well in their camp, By not doing so will get very negative posts on social media.

Troy Deeney recieved death threats via social media because he refused to train under Covid-19 restrictions.

Just saying

[RoyMac5]

21 minutes ago, BriggRam said:

George Floyds murderers were coppers  long before Trump became president, and things like this have been going on for decades if not centuries in America, how is that Trumps fault

Because he encourages them, not discourages them. 

[ramit]

i knew it

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

Where everyone appears angry..... what is that statement exactly..??? Have you ever even visited the country.?

I have lived here 5 years and have never felt in a threatening situation at all, I have never locked my door and leave the keys to the car in the ignition every night without even the slightest worry that something would happen.....I lived in England for 25+ years and would never have been able to do any of those things...

The US is of course a big place with a huge variety of areas.

I doubt your be doing the things you do in Inglewood Chicago for example.

But I agree that on the occasions that I have been to the US folks in general have been extremely pleasant once you get used to seeing all police, security personnel etc carrying firearms.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Based on what exactly? How do you know what the motivations of a bunch of people on FB are or are you talking about your friends, people you've actually met and are familiar with? If it's the former, what exactly gives you the right to decry folk who voice an opinion you clearly don't share, as being virtue-signalling hypocrites when you don't even know them?

For the record, the whole 'white privilege' thing isn't about making white people feel guilty and it's daft that so many people think it is. It's about acknowledging race bias and the challenges that face ethnic minorities, so that folk who do not fall into any minority group don't accept or trivialise the issues faced by those who do. Why? Because when the majority turn a blind eye to any form of inequality, it inadvertently helps prop up the very systems that hold others down.

And minorities shouldn't have to 'ask nicely' for the same freedoms as others, simply because their skin is a different colour. Equality is a right not some benefit to be earned! I'm amazed that this needs explaining. All people are seeking is that more folk be aware. That's all. The fact that so many opine that this is fake, a burden, etc, etc, is exactly why the questions need addressing in the first place. If you don't feel it, fine, that's your choice and your right, carry on regardless, but pretending the whole thing amounts to nothing more than a means to bash good white folk really isn't a good look.

As a smarter guy than me once opined, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Never a truer word spoken.

 

 

 

 

 

Mate, I never think my opinion holds any more weight than others. 

As @reverendo de duivel said, I don't wish to call out EVERYONE. As I replied to @Andicis I explained that there are those that are genuinely switching on to injustices etc. But I know personally of those that are very much in it for the way it reflects on them. Also major organisations are all over it now yet have never practised what they preach and once this is out the headlines they won't use their influence or power to help the noble cause. 

On the white privilege thing. I have never understood what it's attempted to do. I just know that I do find it offensive

This is where some will say "aww poor you, a white Male"... but I'm not arsed. My race should never be a reason why I have anything or lose anything. It should never hold me back or give me rights. I want to see the same said of any race

I kind of feel I grew up the hard way. I have earned what I have. To be told it would be harder if I was black or that my path has been helped by being white pisses me off. And I imagine it pisses a lot of white people off. 

There doesn't need to be a kind of carpet swept from under white people to achieve equality. We can raise the ethnic minorities up without this borderline racist phrase. 

I don't see it as a way to achieve equality. Only to rile many white people. Many who face obstacles in social class inequality. 

I expect a "awww diddums" response from someone. However would that be the correct response from a Pakistani immigrant to a privileged black Brit?

imo it's a terrible angle to try and level things up. 

[Anon]

22 minutes ago, Alpha said:

imo it's a terrible angle to try and level things up.