MuespachRam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 5 hours ago, maxjam said: Its a high pressure job in a country that allows people to carry firearms at all times. If I was a cop I'd be shooting everyone whenever they flinched through fear of being shot myself. Dunno how they do it tbh, their anxiety levels must be through the roof. incredible that anyone would think this, never mind actually say it out loud....Exactly the red neck attitude that is killing innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 59 minutes ago, Norman said: So why haven't you got confirmation bias? Who said that I didn't? I know that I do. I'm fully aware of it. We all have it. The first step is the self-awareness and the need to factor it in. I also don't mind people pointing it out. It's those people who intransigently insist that they don't have it you have to worry about. ? 13 minutes ago, maxjam said: You won't find an awful lot of negative stuff about them in the usual places, as mentioned previously CNN etc have been lets say 'lightly reporting' their actions for a while. Cross the threshold into more right leaning media and you may form a different opinion. That's the right-leaning media who have repeatedly run news stories about antifa that have later proved to be form Russian bot-farms? It's a minefield mate. I'm willing to accept that there are a few mad anarchists out there who are trying to stoke tensions to bring about change, but then that's nothing new. There is a long history of political agitation hijacking situations to their own ends. Some of them are even in the CIA! Put plainly - if there are 10,000 people at a protest rally - what percentage of them are formally members of "antifa" and how many of them are just decent citizens with a political conscience showing solidarity. And most importantly how do you tell the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just now, MuespachRam said: incredible that anyone would think this, never mind actually say it out loud....Exactly the red neck attitude that is killing innocent people. Just saying that in a country where everyone appears angry and can carry a gun, I'd be to nervous to step outside my front door ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 LMFAO at people saying the cop wasn't trying to arrest the guy. Why'd he tell him he was 'resisting arrest then'? You can't resist arrest if you're not being arrested. You also don't need to grip someone up or handcuff them to issue a citation, you just write up the ticket and go on your way. I dunno. I guess most folk only see what they want to see ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, maxjam said: Just saying that in a country where everyone appears angry and can carry a gun, I'd be to nervous to step outside my front door ? Where everyone appears angry..... what is that statement exactly..??? Have you ever even visited the country.? I have lived here 5 years and have never felt in a threatening situation at all, I have never locked my door and leave the keys to the car in the ignition every night without even the slightest worry that something would happen.....I lived in England for 25+ years and would never have been able to do any of those things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Where everyone appears angry..... what is that statement exactly..??? Have you ever even visited the country.? I have lived here 5 years and have never felt in a threatening situation at all, I have never locked my door and leave the keys to the car in the ignition every night without even the slightest worry that something would happen.....I lived in England for 25+ years and would never have been able to do any of those things... yeah but Max has seen a youtuber say it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: yeah but Max has seen a youtuber say it... I forgot about those, they always know best...Must be true then..... balanced point of view and all that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: That's the right-leaning media who have repeatedly run news stories about antifa that have later proved to be form Russian bot-farms? It's a minefield mate. I'm willing to accept that there are a few mad anarchists out there who are trying to stoke tensions to bring about change, but then that's nothing new. There is a long history of political agitation hijacking situations to their own ends. Some of them are even in the CIA! Put plainly - if there are 10,000 people at a protest rally - what percentage of them are formally members of "antifa" and how many of them are just decent citizens with a political conscience showing solidarity. I could say the same about the Tommy Robinson rallies etc - how many are actually far-right thugs and how many women and children were also there? Did they burn down cities or did the media report them for chanting his name and 'drinking strong lager at 9am'? Imagine leftist medua such as CNN reporting on antifa with the same fervour as our media reported on the minor scuffles at far-right rallies - it doesn't even compare. If you don't trust right leaning media, check out some independent journalists, I mentioned Tim Pool as he's pretty balanced for a leftie and follows the story. Tends to waffle a bit but he gets there in the end! 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: And most importantly how do you tell the difference? Anyone covered head to toe in black, throwing bricks, throwing molotovs, kicking the crap out of a passer-bys, smashing shop windows then running off with a 65' TV is probably not a peaceful protester ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Where everyone appears angry..... what is that statement exactly..??? Have you ever even visited the country.? I have lived here 5 years and have never felt in a threatening situation at all, I have never locked my door and leave the keys to the car in the ignition every night without even the slightest worry that something would happen.....I lived in England for 25+ years and would never have been able to do any of those things... Okay, I'll try not to be to flippant this time. I was talking about being a policeman in a country where it is your legal right to carry a weapon, a country in which racial tensions run high at the best of times let alone at the moment. I've never so much as seen a knife in real life let alone a gun, doing a job that would potentially put me 'in the line of fire' on any given day would age me 50 years overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: yeah but Max has seen a youtuber say it... FYI Tim Pool is an award winning journalist, not some rando on youtube; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Pool but its not The Guardian etc, so as you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 51 minutes ago, GboroRam said: When I view the footage, my first thought isn't "Respect to those that do the jobs the rest of us couldn't". My first thought is, he was no threat. Why are you doing this? I fully accept the danger of being a police officer in the US. But the risk of walking in a dangerous area, or stopping a vehicle when you don't know if the driver is armed or not, is very different to the risk from a man who literally cannot move enough to breathe. Full sympathy for every officer who has to do the former, and yes, respect - it's a job I wouldn't want to do. But it is not what's under discussion here - and the dangerous elements of the job do not justify that kind of behaviour. You can't tell me what's being discussed and what isn't. Despite you trying your best in other ways. Nobody, that means Nobody, is justifying it. You read what you want to, to the point that it is scarcely believable. If I want to talk to someone else about being a copper in America, I will. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: incredible that anyone would think this, never mind actually say it out loud....Exactly the red neck attitude that is killing innocent people. Never heard of hyperbole? You're usually very good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 55 minutes ago, GboroRam said: When I view the footage, my first thought isn't "Respect to those that do the jobs the rest of us couldn't". My first thought is, he was no threat. Why are you doing this? I fully accept the danger of being a police officer in the US. But the risk of walking in a dangerous area, or stopping a vehicle when you don't know if the driver is armed or not, is very different to the risk from a man who literally cannot move enough to breathe. Full sympathy for every officer who has to do the former, and yes, respect - it's a job I wouldn't want to do. But it is not what's under discussion here - and the dangerous elements of the job do not justify that kind of behaviour. I haven't watched the video tbh, I've got no intention of watching a man die. I've seen the picture of the cop with his knee on his neck though and understand it looks bad - even if something happened in the run up to the arrest there is no excuse for kneeling on a mans neck for 8 minutes or however long it was. The cop is looking at spending the rest of his life in prison and given his crime and notoriety what are the chances of him serving that? Gotta be a high probability of someone murdering him surely? I'm not sure what the point is we're discussing now? Everyone agrees it was wrong, everyone agrees it shouldn't happen and everyone agrees that racism exists, especially in the USA. Are we arguing over whether its systemic oppression, widespread racism or something else? I think I have put enough arguments forward to at least cast doubt on the systemic assertion/widespread racism assertions and I doubt that anyone will be able to put forwards evidence that categorically proves it - so I think I'm going to try and bow out of the discussion here repeating my argument that I believe a lot of factors are at play here (and not all of them genuine). We'll all continue to go around in circles for years to come unless we stop looking at surface issues and really understand and tackle the underlying problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Who said that I didn't? I know that I do. I'm fully aware of it. We all have it. The first step is the self-awareness and the need to factor it in. ? How do you know how much self-awareness you have over others? Do have cognitive bias too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, Norman said: Never heard of hyperbole? You're usually very good at it. God, watching you two square off in the politics thread is like someone asking my which of my grandmas I'd rather cop off with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: God, watching you two square off in the politics thread is like someone asking my which of my grandmas I'd rather cop off with. That's easy....your mums mum, she is way hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, maxjam said: Okay, I'll try not to be to flippant this time. I was talking about being a policeman in a country where it is your legal right to carry a weapon, a country in which racial tensions run high at the best of times let alone at the moment. I've never so much as seen a knife in real life let alone a gun, doing a job that would potentially put me 'in the line of fire' on any given day would age me 50 years overnight. So, racial tensions run high, especially at the moment...… so the best way to up hold the law and improve the country by bridging the gap between groups of society is...…?....to kneel on a mans throat for 8 minutes....? The problem is what is he doing in a position of power like that? How has even been given the job let alone led been allowed to believe that is what he needed to do.... (and the other policemen who were with him too by the way!) Because the country is being run by a total dickwad, racist, sexist frigging idiot who should stick to being a terrible game show host and leave running a country to the adults... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 It is all going a bit pear shaped and losing it's credibility when the looting and attacking police is as bad as it is right now in the States. I mean you're asking for the very response that you're protesting against. Plain thick and stupid and I'd much rather see these looters shot than a cop. Some of the stuff on social media is total rubbish too when it's coming from Brits who live in a country that's not even close to the problems in some US states. All the "I admit I'm white and privileged" stuff comes across as fake. Firstly I don't think some of them mean what they're saying any more than I believe as many people actually give a feck about the NHS as claim. It stinks of people patting themselves on the back about what a great caring person they are. With all the kind considerate people about it's hard to imagine who was hoarding bog rolls and panic buying pasta. Secondly, while I would admit there are privileges to being white I would say that it doesn't become an advantage in the UK as often these flawed statistics suggest. I would say your social class is more of a limitation than your colour. There seems to be a suggestion that people who are white should feel guilty? Lucky? That's a good way of bringing people together. Bet that works well. Talking about white people being privileged is not the way you improve the opportunities for ethnic minorities. You do that by growing like this country has been doing. You move forward not sit there pointing out how privileged another race is. We are grouping black and brown against white. Let's be extra fair and talk about black privilege over brown. Let's talk about how it's easier to be a British Jamaican than a Pakistani? No? I don't think Britain is perfect but my God, it is not Texas or Alabama. There is nothing like Detroit here. Right load of baalocks going on. The point will get lost and rather than George Floyd be a good reason to evaluate American politics it turns into pointless violence and social media attention seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alpha said: The point will get lost and rather than George Floyd be a good reason to evaluate American politics it turns into pointless violence and social media attention seeking. It's crazy how much virtue signalling has been going on, a lot of which has been done by people who don't care at all. They don't care what happened to George Floyd, they have to maintain their social media image. A lot of the violence and destruction has been done by white anarchists who don't care at all about George Floyd, or any of the other black victims of police brutality, they were just looking for an excuse. All of these brands that have released statements, how many cared about the problem before it became trendy to? And how many will care after? I find it repugnant the amount of narcissism has come from people about this. It's clear America needs to change, but I don't think a lot of these people care about that. I think a lot of them care about making it look like they care about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: So, racial tensions run high, especially at the moment...… so the best way to up hold the law and improve the country by bridging the gap between groups of society is...…?....to kneel on a mans throat for 8 minutes....? If you can find one post in which anyone has remotely suggested that was either a justified or warranted I'd be surprised. Apologies again for my flippant comment, it was more of a self depreciating commentary on my ability to do the job than anything else ? Right... off to walk the dog, I'm outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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