Forest (A) Match Thread

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Mckram said:

What a horrendous Derby.

Two very average teams and a poor atmosphere.

Can’t see them (or us!) going up this year. Just lacked quality all over the pitch. 

Thought it was the best for a while. 

Both teams going for the win and creating chances, of which we created 3 very good ones.

[Alph]

6 minutes ago, lrm14 said:

I don't agree with your comments thus far about the game in this thread but you're definitely right about Bieliks importance at DM. The only thing I hold against Cocu for today was dropping him to CB, that was a real clanger of a decision.

That's fair enough. In general I just watch midfielders closer than anyone else. So while someone may be looking at the runs made from the front I'm watching central midfielders.

I can accept that I might be wrong the entire defeat wasn't on the shoulders of Shinnie and Evans but their contribution was to stroke the ball left and right and make Ameobi look good. 

Probably could have been supported better. I dunno. But Bielik is proof that they could have done a whole lot more.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

Agree with the sentiment but last weeks selection and formation was obvious.  We win.  Today, he started off as he should but a baffling decision to take Bielek away from midfield.  We have not looked as good any game when he has played CB.  Evans is a defender that can play in midfield.  Bielek is a midfielder that can play in defence, if needed.

No issues with that mate, completely agree and we are far from a finished product..as ever,it's the extreme nonsensical posts which do my head in after a defeat.

 

[IslandExile]

1 hour ago, IslandExile said:

Not in the mood to read the all the pages and I fear the wrist slashers and Cocu doubters will be out in force.

Ok, I've since made the mistake of reading the posts on here and sure enough the moaners are out in force....

Look we were the better team and lost through one bad mistake by the best player from out of the academy since Hughes.

No need to panic, no need to change managers or tactics.

In time, Cocu will just phase in better players - either bought or developed.

Give the guy a chance. Sheesh.

[ramit]

1 hour ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

No poo Sherlock thanks for that little piece of wisdom 

So, why did you ask if you knew the answer fella?

[Rambam]

46 minutes ago, ramboy63 said:

To be fair i thought we looked ok away from home for a change, Forest created very little although the first 15 mins of the second half they did up there tempo only for us then to gift them a goal.

Strange decision again by Cocu to put Beilik back in to defence as i thought he was outstanding in the first half and to be fair Martin offers us nothing the way we play one or two nice touches then he just ambles around we cannot afford to carry a luxury player at present this season is a real battle and were in the wrong half of the table at present

 

Totally agree with the Bielik point, and totally disagree regarding Martin. He is not a ‘luxury’ player!

[Jimbo Ram]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thought it was the best for a while. 

Both teams going for the win and creating chances, of which we created 3 very good ones.

Funny old game football...I actually feel more upbeat after today and the Boro performance than I did after the home wins v Luton and Wigan. For me we are not far away now, we have put in 2 pretty decent performances. Add Rooney and a couple of decent additions in January and we might get stronger in the second half of the season.....

[wixman1884]

I thought today was decent. We lost, but it could have gone either way. A draw was probably a fair result.

We looked electric for the start of the game - a sharp, organized team that should be digging for promotion. Things didn't really pick up until the last 15 where Waggy made a big difference. We matched them for most of the game, which is more than I expected based on recent away performances.

We lost to Forest, but in the context of where we're at right now, especially with off field turmoil, I thought today was a positive.

 

[lukedcfc]

I thought it was a poor game, not much much quality on show from both sides. We will need about 4 good players to mount a top 6 push, we look every bit a mid table side at the moment. I kind of want the season to be over , I haven’t got any enthusiasm for it at the moment. I hope January brings some gifts, we really need some quality.

[Richard246]

I think we have to stick to this formation and change a few players

Evans to go centre half he is actually very good there

bring Knight In for Holmes we need more energy in midfield 

I would play Lawrence with Marriott and Martin as the number 10 I think Martin would have a lot more time and he would link up play from midfield to attack  

                 Roos

Bogle      Evans   Davies     Lowe

              Knight    Bielik   Shinnie

                    Martin 

          Lawrence      Marriott

 

      

[superzak]

1 minute ago, lukedcfc said:

I thought it was a poor game, not much much quality on show from both sides. We need about 4 good players to mount a top 6 push, we look every bit a mid table side at the moment. I can’t wait till this season is over, I haven’t got any enthusiasm for it at the moment. I hope January brings some gifts, we really need some quality.

im afraid i agree...my enthusiasm for Derby is at an all time low

[TimRam]

Thought it was a decent game, could have gone either way and I think 0-0 would have been a fair result.

[ramit]

In the post match interview Cocu said he was forced to pull Bielik from midfield because of the Clarke injury.  He really has no idea how good Evans has been in that position, to me that's worrying and indicative of a laid back attitude to managing.

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, ramit said:

In the post match interview Cocu said he was forced to pull Bielik from midfield because of the Clarke injury.  He really has no idea how good Evans has been in that position, to me that's worrying and indicative of a laid back attitude to managing.

I assume he based his decision on Evans last game where everyone was singing his praises? I cannot see what others see in Evans he's just a bit lightweight and meh for me.

[DavesaRam]

That was a great game of football, but what a disappointing result. We more than held our own - with recent away performances I thought we would be trying to hold out, and maybe nick something. instead we played with a lot of assurance, and created the most dangerous opportunities, including the one for Forest.

The two-footed challenge was the game changer, even though it din't need to be. The cynic within me wonders if Forest knew we are weak in the central defender department, and it would be to their advantage if one of them got injured. If so, did they also know that Cocu prefers Beilik in defence? Am I becoming a conspiracy nut? Whatever, but inevitably we ended up with Beilik in defence, and then it was game over. Forest running the midfield from that point on isn't because we are poor in midfield, its because we keep playing the wrong players in there. 

it seems that after 3 and a bit months, Cocu has finally decided to  move away from the stifling 2 CDMs, and last week it made us look good. It started to today as well, but we soon put a stop to that, didn't we? Somebody has already pointed out the balance between Beilik and Shinnie which disappeared after the enforced substitution, with Shinnie then offering less support for Bogle, which then allowed Forest's press on our back four to become effective. Some say that it wasn't the press which produced the error for the goal, but I disagree. As soon as the ball rolled towards Bogle, there was a Forest man running towards him, and rather than put himself under pressure by taking his man on, Bogle got rid. So the press worked, because he got rid of it to Grabban.

Sadly, Bogle's head went after that, as did most of the team for about the next 20 minutes, before we got ourselves back to playing football again. And yes, although Cocu did what Forest expected re the formation change, Forest should have been down to 10 men. But as ever, the ref bottled it, and continued giving stuff to Forest for nothing - vis-a-vis the booking for Lawrence, who ,instead of overstreching for the ball should have been placing one of two free-kickshe should have been given  into the top corner. Late on Grabban was backing into and leaning all over a Derby defender (I can't remember who), pushing him backwards for 5 or 10 yards, but it was a free-kick to Forest. How? The ref was poor, yet again. I've seen worse, but I have also seen better, although my memory is getting a bit weak on that one.

In the end, despite Sky creaming their pants for Derby's opponents (yet again), Forest hardly made any threat, with most of their efforts being long range and high or wide - a sign of good defending, which we did for most of the match. In the end, we had to show them how to set their strikers up with a good chance, because they didn't manage it themselves.

It was a disappointing result, but plenty of signs for hope there. We might actually challenge for the top six, but probably won't. I'm not worrying either way, so long as we are making progress. Moving away from 2 CDMs (at least at the start) is a good sign. Moving to Martin and Marriott is a good sign, so long as we give it time to bear fruit. Keeping Beilik is the next development. And for the second game in a row, I was disappointed with Holmes's final decisions. But overall, I'm not going to mark our players down, because we were close to getting something, maybe even a win, from that match. 

So near, and yet so far.

[ramit]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

I assume he based his decision on Evans last game where everyone was singing his praises? I cannot see what others see in Evans he's just a bit lightweight and meh for me.

Last season Evans was used as a central defender when we ran out of players natural to that position and he excelled at it.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, ramit said:

Last season Evans was used as a central defender when we ran out of players natural to that position and he excelled at it.

When you say excelled - how many games and with who?

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

28 minutes ago, ramit said:

So, why did you ask if you knew the answer fella?

Didn’t ask if he was Dutch, just asked why he wasn’t wearing a poppy. 
 

The fact he’s Dutch doesn’t have anything to do with it, as I was with several Dutch fellas on Weds evening and they all wore a poppy. 
 

Turns out he was wearing one under his jacket though. 

[NottsRam77]

59 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

One up front worked so well against Brentford Hull etc?  We do not have the wingers to play two out wide.  Lawrence is better central, Martin is better with a runner off him and Marriott is better with players around him.

Bang on mate 

don’t worry about him I think he’s in the wind up 

[rammieib]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

I don't know how anyone can say the difference was Bogle's pass.

The difference was we had a central midfield that consisted of green grass and red shirts.

I'm fuming that for the middle of the first half and the entire second half we had 2 DM's stood next to each other, half an inch in front of the CB's and all they wanted to do was drop the ball off to defenders. It's a ducking crime!!!

At least they're back there defending you say?

Yeah, even when the front line presses. They're back there defending. 

And when Ameobi steps inside? Nope, they're gone. Who they there to deal with? Silva? The guy with the freedom of the pitch? 

What the hell are they for? For Curtis "Luiz" Davies to bounce the ball off? 

No wonder the goal came from a defensive error. We only had a defence to do ducking everything. Again!! Just like at Hull. 

Both of them wandering about looking for others to drive the team forward. It's your job!!

Except it's not. Because Cocu loves a midfielder that strolls about laying the ball off. Sign Eric Dier!! The ultimate midfield fraud. Cocu would love him

 

At Hull we sat and watched Bielik fade to a donkey. Then Shinnie. Then Lawrence. Then Martin. Cocu did nothing

Here we watched us shrink when Bielik went to the backline. Ok, unavoidable sub. But for the next hour we watched those two DM's do nothing. Absolutely nothing at all. Zero. Zilch. 

Forest only had to press Bogle and Lowe in. Then watch the suicide show. Between the defenders and Roos there was destined to be a rooster up. 

Then he brings on Waghorn and takes off Shinnie. What did we miss when Shinnie went off? The option to duck around less with pointless midfield passes? Well that's a treat after an hour.

You might say it was a close game. But it wasn't. Derby were not going to win that for as long as that shambolic midfield negativity continued. Just like at Hull when a problem surfaced the game started going one way. No response. 

Sign Eric Dier. Get Kieron Dowell on the pitch. If we are going to continue to play pointless con passes then these will really accelerate the level of fraud going on.

Spot on.