Lawrence and Bennett Convicted of drink driving

[Anon]

10 minutes ago, dcfc4ever said:

Wow you sound bitter

everyone deserves to be able to put past mistakes behind them and move on

You close to your mum?

you forgiven the other players out that night?

If the phrase "personally I won't be treating them any differently" sounds bitter in your world, then yes I'm extremely bitter.

People are allowed to move on from mistakes. I'd say there's a significant difference between being allowed to move on and being totally immune from criticism less than a month after making said mistake.

My relationship with my mother is irrelevant. Personally I don't see why losing a parent should hold any weight as a mitigating factor in Lawrence's defence.

Why would I need to forgive anyone else? No one else committed a crime.

[uttoxram75]

6 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

I am sure that if this had been Tom and Mason the factory workers from chadd that they too would have received a 85 pound fine, a slap on the wrist and told not to do It again... 

pathetic...but did anyone really expect anything else..? 

Its pretty much in line with what a factory worker would get tbf. 

You could argue they should have paid a fine pro rata with earnings but thats another debate.

[Stagtime]

They have got their punishment from the courts and the club, fine. To me the biggest problem is how do their teammates get trust back in two blokes that have bolted and left injured players to fend for themselves. I've been involved with Rugby League teams up to the highest level for over 40 years and can tell you that would be a issue that won't be resolved easily. Number 1 rule when you go out, NEVER leave a teammate in the lurch no matter the situation.

[europia]

15 minutes ago, jono said:

When I say probation, I mean everyone will be watching them, fans, club, agents.

Watching to see that they knuckle down and don’t repeat. I am forgiving but that doesn’t mean they are off the hook just because the court and club have punished them. This scrutiny is part of the price they will be paying for some time, and quite rightly.

I doubt there is likely to be much scrutiny. The club (employer) and the court have been extremely lenient and this is likely to be interpreted as a green light. The club obviously are mindful of their investment in Lawrence and this will have been at the forefront of their thinking in getting him back on the football pitch. Having done so they couldn't really treat Bennett with any less leniency. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

59 minutes ago, RamNut said:

The barrister is even thicker.

I mean, but three miles away, Martin could jog that in an hour.....

[TommyPowell]

7 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

I mean that’s not at all what I’ve said, is it?   

your words not mine=No issue with people who’ve done it in the past and learnt their lesson being employed, but not those who do it under our employment.

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, jono said:

But why should they take a gut/subjective stance.?  They decided to apply the maximum fine rather than terminate contracts .

That is the clubs choice. They balance (I suppose) the benefit of being seen to have an element of understanding due to the players youth, then there is the players value to the club, the cost of replacement, the fact that is a first offence and that the law gave the punishment for the crime. Certainly the players beached their contracts but in those circumstances it’s the clubs right to terminate .... or not.

They, objectively, chose not to. There is an argument that they could take a punitive moral stance in view of the appalling behaviour but maybe it’s equally moral to forgive and play a part in rehabilitation.? 

 If you were CEO, then from what you say, I assume you disagree with the club. Fair enough but your view is no more or less subjective or objective than the Club. It’s a view nothing more. 

Never said it’s anything other than just my view mate, understand others will see it differently, but that’s the stance I’ve taken throughout this mess and I’m sticking to it. You can see how the club came to making the decision they did of course, from a financial perspective particulary, but I still can’t bring myself to agree with it.

[B4ev6is]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

If the phrase "personally I won't be treating them any differently" sounds bitter in your world, then yes I'm extremely bitter.

People are allowed to move on from mistakes. I'd say there's a significant difference between being allowed to move on and being totally immune from criticism less than a month after making said mistake.

My relationship with my mother is irrelevant. Personally I don't see why losing a parent should hold any weight as a mitigating factor in Lawrence's defence.

Why would I need to forgive anyone else? No one else committed a crime.

To be fair have you ever watch someone dieing not a thing you can do about it. It majourly masses with your head I am not excusing what he did and I am sure were ever his mum is in heaven she shaking head of shame at probley fumimg as well with him.

[Millenniumram]

11 minutes ago, TommyPowel said:

your words not mine=No issue with people who’ve done it in the past and learnt their lesson being employed, but not those who do it under our employment.

Yes, that’s not saying that I think it’s alright for people to do it outside out club, of course I don’t! Just that people can learn their lesson and change, which someone who’s done it in the past may well have done, and I’ve no problem with giving a second chance to people like that. Doesn’t mean I forgive them for what they’ve done in the past or that it was acceptable, just that (hopefully) they’re not that person anymore. Lawrence and Bennett have only just committed the offence, and my view is they shouldn’t stay employed here given the character they’ve shown while at the club. They too can get a second chance, just not here.

[TommyPowell]

2 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Yes, that’s not saying that I think it’s alright for people to do it outside out club, of course I don’t! Just that people can learn their lesson and change, which someone who’s done it in the past may well have done, and I’ve no problem with giving a second chance to people like that. Doesn’t mean I forgive them for what they’ve done in the past or that it was acceptable, just that (hopefully) they’re not that person anymore. Lawrence and Bennett have only just committed the offence, and my view is they shouldn’t stay employed here given the character they’ve shown while at the club. They too can get a second chance, just not here.

It doesnt matter how you dress it up it is pure hypocrisy, 

[uttoxram75]

They've been done, the court case is over, the club has punished them and the courts have delivered justice on them.

They remain Derby players and need to win our trust back by scoring winning goals against the gumps and the dirties and celebrating by running roond the pitch with pretend steering wheels.? (Not really, thats just my sick sense of humour and lack of PC awareness)

A goal each against Stoke wunt go amiss either tbf.

 

[Millenniumram]

43 minutes ago, TommyPowel said:

It doesnt matter how you dress it up it is pure hypocrisy, 

I mean, it just isn’t. But you keep thinking what you want to think, I don’t have time for this.

[BathRam72]

18 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Agreed, let's move on.

These 2 will have to live with what they have done everyday at least for the next 2 years (not having a car will be a reminder, Keogh will be a constant reminder).

On the pitch, you just know that opposing fans will not let it lie.

So now let's draw that line and give our support and help them rehabilitate.

I can't believe this is still being banged on about.

The club has punished them, the courts have punished them. Whatever you believe they should have got is irrelevant now as it will change nothing.

What is required now, is to get behind whatever the club do to rehabilitate these two and help them get over what ever it was that put them in this situation.  

Constantly bringing it up is not going to let them move on. As I said in the post above they will have reminders everyday without some of us bringing it up again and again. 

LET IT GO!!!

 

[desirelines]

This will all be forgotten by Christmas 

[oldtimeram]

3 minutes ago, desirelines said:

This will all be forgotten by Christmas 

Until after the team Christmas party

[cheron85]

14 hours ago, Anon said:

I can believe you went through the rigmarole of finding the information and then didn't quote it.

That would have taken some of the fun out of it - I'm hoping other people now go back and check... ? 

[rynny]

10 hours ago, europia said:

I doubt there is likely to be much scrutiny. The club (employer) and the court have been extremely lenient and this is likely to be interpreted as a green light. The club obviously are mindful of their investment in Lawrence and this will have been at the forefront of their thinking in getting him back on the football pitch. Having done so they couldn't really treat Bennett with any less leniency. 

How have the club and courts been extremely lenient? 

Extremely lenient? 

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

I can't believe this is still being banged on about.

The club has punished them, the courts have punished them. Whatever you believe they should have got is irrelevant now as it will change nothing.

What is required now, is to get behind whatever the club do to rehabilitate these two and help them get over what ever it was that put them in this situation.  

Constantly bringing it up is not going to let them move on. As I said in the post above they will have reminders everyday without some of us bringing it up again and again. 

LET IT GO!!!

 

I don't think it's reasonable for this to be now a closed topic. What happened was serious.

I think I lean towards MilleniumRam's view of this. They need to have some kind of punishment. Making a couple of wealthy young men take taxis isn't really much of a punishment. I hope the community work they do really gives them a lot to think about and appreciate the uniqueness of their current situation, how lucky they are and how privileged they are to play for the Rams.

I wouldn't have been unhappy to see them lose their position as players, whether that means enforced time away from the first team, transfer listing or (perhaps too drastic to even consider) termination of contracts - although I see the very tough situation the club is in with regards to needing to get the most out of every club resource they have.

These two players need to feel some pain to make them think about what they did. I'm not convinced a driving ban, a pretty much pointless surcharge/fine and a swift return to first team football shows that we take their offence seriously. Honestly I think the one person who will be thinking longest and hardest about their decisions that night will be Keogh - because the punishment he's had, for basically making a bad decision when drunk, is far more tough than anyone else has had.

I think I would have been happy with a few weeks playing with the reserves, a lot of club related community work (maybe around alcohol related offenses - make them see the reality of what alcohol can do to families) and the inevitable driving ban. I wouldn't have cried if they had been sent down - it was serious enough in my eyes to warrant it.

As for double standards, I can see that. But our club can only do what it can do. I want those players to feel some pain to focus their attention so they make better decisions in future. If Rooney or anyone else had an offense, the club they are playing for at the time has to take responsibility to make sure some form of punishment reflects the seriousness of the offence, and makes them think. 

Restoration of faith in the players involved can only happen after a period of reflection on their actions, which is what I hope the club can make sure happens.

[Ghost of Clough]

15 hours ago, Anon said:

I can believe you went through the rigmarole of finding the information and then didn't quote it.

I'll save you the trouble of searching for it.

On 13/10/2019 at 15:43, Van Cone De Head said:

Sorry lads... I was the 4th person. It's also my fault Bennett and Lawrence fled the scene. I asked Bennett to pop home to get me a jumper as I was a bit chilly. A minute or so later I started to feel a bit peckish. As Bennett was taking his time and I couldn't call him due bad signal, I sent Lawrence to the nearby petrol station to get some refrigerated crisps and some wine gums.

 

[GboroRam]

4 minutes ago, rynny said:

How have the club and courts been extremely lenient? 

Extremely lenient? 

They could have lost their jobs and gone to prison. I'd say they got lucky. You could easily argue it was lenient.