Lawrence and Bennett Convicted of drink driving

[Pearl Ram]

Can’t help thinking the club have been very lenient with them, I mean, wealthy young men, “What shall we do with them ?” “I know, we’ll fine them, that’ll punish them”

I would have preferred a 4 game ban, similar to the way I’d deprive my lads of their X Box/PS 4 when they were on the naughty step, give ‘em time to reflect on the error of their ways. 

Having written that, the club have decided a fine is sufficient, I disagree with them but I move on and leave it there.

[Rev]

1 minute ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

We know now that he needs help, what we don't know is how good he was at hiding his problems before this.

Or it just be the sort of defense a lawyer constructs when pleading mitigating circumstances for a client facing sentencing?

[Sith Happens]

3 hours ago, Spanish said:

yep lucky especially for leaving the scene.

refusal is whole new level of offence and like you say that ended up suspended, internet says;

Under Section 7 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is a criminal offence to fail to provide a specimen for analysis, without reasonable excuse, when required to do so after driving / attempting to drive.

Anyone convicted of this offence will be classed as a high risk offender. High risk offenders are required to take and pass a DVLA medical before a driving licence will be issued to them upon expiration of their driving disqualification.

WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES FOR FAILING TO PROVIDE A SPECIMEN FOR ANALYSIS?

The penalty imposed upon conviction of failing to provide a specimen for analysis while driving or attempting to drive will depend upon the circumstances surrounding the offence.

The court will determine the offenders culpability and the harm caused as well as any aggravating and/or mitigating factors before passing sentence.

What is the minimum penalty for failing to provide a specimen for analysis while driving or attempting to drive?

A 12 month driving disqualification and a band B fine (75 - 125% of relevant weekly income) is the minimum penalty imposed for this offence at Magistrates court.

What is the maximum penalty for failing to provide a specimen for analysis while driving or attempting to drive?

A lengthy driving disqualification of 5 years or more and a 26 week custodial sentence is the maximum penalty imposed for this offence at Magistrates court.

 

Not the same level as causing serious injury through drink driving which carries a maximum penalty of 5 years prison.

[RandomAccessMemory]

8 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Or it just be the sort of defense a lawyer constructs when pleading mitigating circumstances for a client facing sentencing?

John Percy's article last month not long after the crash did include the bit below:

Quote

It is understood there are serious concerns within the club over Lawrence's state of mind, after the death of his mother, Deborah, last year.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/09/27/Derby-head-coach-phillip-cocu-drops-tom-lawrence-mason-bennett/

Edit: I know it was this year, in May, but that's what the article states.

[rammieib]

Were they both prosecuted for the same offence?

As far as I know they committed the following (but not punished in court for the following)

Bennett driving over the limit and leaving the RTA scene.

Lawrence driving over the limit, causing a RTA, injuring a fellow passenger and leaving a RTA. 

To me, what Lawrence did was severely worse but I think the CPS went for the same charge on both of them if I am correct? 

Lawrence is one hell of a lucky man.

[Philmycock]

19 minutes ago, Pearl Ram said:

Can’t help thinking the club have been very lenient with them, I mean, wealthy young men, “What shall we do with them ?” “I know, we’ll fine them, that’ll punish them”

I would have preferred a 4 game ban, similar to the way I’d deprive my lads of their X Box/PS 4 when they were on the naughty step, give ‘em time to reflect on the error of their ways. 

Having written that, the club have decided a fine is sufficient, I disagree with them but I move on and leave it there.

I think depriving Lawrence & Bennett of their XBox's is a harsh punishment

[Millenniumram]

5 minutes ago, philmycocu said:

I think depriving Lawrence & Bennett of their XBox's is a harsh punishment

Fifa 20s just come out as well, even I wouldn’t be so harsh!

[Sith Happens]

22 minutes ago, philmycocu said:

I think depriving Lawrence & Bennett of their XBox's is a harsh punishment

Can you still get demolition Derby on the xbox?

[Elwood P Dowd]

Two very stupid and very lucky young men, let’s hope they have learnt from this mess.

 

[RamNut]

10 hours ago, Srg said:

Are you saying they went to Markeaton McDonald's for 20 nuggets and a Milkshake to sober up?

 

10 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Maybe a coffee

A packet of extra strong mints 

[jono]

2 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Not really an equivalent, this is paid employment we’re talking about that these players don’t deserve here anymore (imo), it’s not just that they’re “representing” something- they’re being paid for it, and I don’t think they deserve such a position given what they’ve done while holding it.

In terms of your second paragraph, I think if you lose your job you’re far more likely to take what’s happened more seriously. Granted, they’ve got a noticeable punishment, but a year down the line they may well have forgetter about it. It’s a far lesser threat to have in your mind than your job security. It would certainly be tougher on them, but they deserve it for the serious offence they’ve committed imo- though obviously no matter what happens Lawrence does need some help, but feel that issue should be kept separate despite the obvious link.

Don’t doubt for a second that other players have done similar and not got sacked, I just don’t agree with it. Particulary when they ran away from the scene, that would’ve been the final nail in the coffin of their employment so to speak for me. Appreciate others may hold different views, that’s what the forum is for- but that’s my opinion on what the club should’ve done, simple as. Can’t really argue with the court punishment as that’s the law, fairly imo, but the club can take a more subjective view.

But why should they take a gut/subjective stance.?  They decided to apply the maximum fine rather than terminate contracts .

That is the clubs choice. They balance (I suppose) the benefit of being seen to have an element of understanding due to the players youth, then there is the players value to the club, the cost of replacement, the fact that is a first offence and that the law gave the punishment for the crime. Certainly the players beached their contracts but in those circumstances it’s the clubs right to terminate .... or not.

They, objectively, chose not to. There is an argument that they could take a punitive moral stance in view of the appalling behaviour but maybe it’s equally moral to forgive and play a part in rehabilitation.? 

 If you were CEO, then from what you say, I assume you disagree with the club. Fair enough but your view is no more or less subjective or objective than the Club. It’s a view nothing more. 

[dcfc4ever]

1 hour ago, MuespachRam said:

So they fled the scene just to save themselves, not to call for help etc as people have speculated.... ducking low life’s. 

Pathetic sentence for a horrible crime committed by two pathetic horrible individuals

 

 

What sentence did you want?

Why are they horrible ? Have you met them ?

Give them a break and draw a line under it now like the rest of our good fan base,they’ve got young families and need support now not name calling

[europia]

"Ms Connally said a paramedic crew witnessed the crash "entirely by chance" and came to the aid of two passengers at the scene as the defendants fled.  Lawrence and Bennett, 23, returned to the scene about 45 minutes later and were arrested."

 

Very disappointing to hear that they ran away from the scene, knowing what (and who) they were leaving behind. Shows a like of moral fibre. I hear people saying 'it's over, lets move on etc...'  Personally I don't think I would ever see either of these two players in the same light (prior to the incident) again. I would be happier if they were no longer at the club. Just my opinion. 

[Anon]

18 minutes ago, dcfc4ever said:

What sentence did you want?

Why are they horrible ? Have you met them ?

Give them a break and draw a line under it now like the rest of our good fan base,they’ve got young families and need support now not name calling

Why on earth should it matter if they have families? Does having a child make you immune from criticism? I don't care whether they need support or not. They aren't entitled to it and their own actions mean they're probably less deserving of it than many of our other players.

Personally I won't be treating them any differently, but I baulk at the suggestion that we ought to be rallying around them.

[europia]

18 minutes ago, europia said:

"Ms Connally said a paramedic crew witnessed the crash "entirely by chance" and came to the aid of two passengers at the scene as the defendants fled.  Lawrence and Bennett, 23, returned to the scene about 45 minutes later and were arrested."

 

Very disappointing to hear that they ran away from the scene, knowing what (and who) they were leaving behind. Shows a like of moral fibre. I hear people saying 'it's over, lets move on etc...'  Personally I don't think I would ever see either of these two players in the same light (prior to the incident) again. I would be happier if they were no longer at the club. Just my opinion. 

'....a lack of moral fibre....' 

apologies for my typo 

[RamNut]

8 hours ago, CumbriaRam said:

Lucy Whitaker, representing Bennett, Bennett 'planned to get a taxi'

Ms Whitaker said he had planned to get a taxi with a team mate and when the time came to go, his team mate was talking to the “others”.

She said: “He made the poor decision to get in his vehicle and drive home. He lives three miles away.”

"Mason Bennett, 23, of Whaley Thorns, near Mansfield"

Further evidence Bennett is the not the sharpest tool in the box, if he thinks Mansfield is 3 miles from Quarndon.... ?

The barrister is even thicker.

[jono]

19 minutes ago, europia said:

"Ms Connally said a paramedic crew witnessed the crash "entirely by chance" and came to the aid of two passengers at the scene as the defendants fled.  Lawrence and Bennett, 23, returned to the scene about 45 minutes later and were arrested."

 

Very disappointing to hear that they ran away from the scene, knowing what (and who) they were leaving behind. Shows a like of moral fibre. I hear people saying 'it's over, lets move on etc...'  Personally I don't think I would ever see either of these two players in the same light (prior to the incident) again. I would be happier if they were no longer at the club. Just my opinion. 

But I don’t think people are saying “move on” or its done and dusted.

i think people are saying these lads have behaved appallingly. They have been punished officially and now we will wait and see if their apologies and regret have substance. I suspect (apart from the lynch mob ) most of us are saying ok .. you effed up, you’ve said sorry so you have talked the talk .. now show us over the coming months that you really mean it.  In short they are on probation. 

 

[dcfc4ever]

3 minutes ago, Anon said:

Why on earth should it matter if they have families? Does having a child make you immune from criticism? I don't care whether they need support or not. They aren't entitled to it and their own actions mean they're probably less deserving of it than many of our other players.

Personally I won't be treating them any differently, but I baulk at the suggestion that we ought to be rallying around them.

Wow you sound bitter

everyone deserves to be able to put past mistakes behind them and move on

You close to your mum?

you forgiven the other players out that night?

[europia]

Just now, jono said:

But I don’t think people are saying “move on” or its done and dusted.

i think people are saying these lads have behaved appallingly. They have been punished officially and now we will wait and see if their apologies and regret have substance. I suspect (apart from the lynch mob ) most of us are saying ok .. you effed up, you’ve said sorry so you have talked the talk .. now show us over the coming months that you really mean it.  In short they are on probation. 

 

I've not really read any comments which would be categorised 'lynch mob' mindset, so I can't comment on that. It does seem however that the two individuals have been let off very lightly (no surprise in that). That in itself isn't necessarily sending the right message considering the seriousness of the crime. Not really sure about them being on probation, considering both were back in the squad just a week or so after the incident. Anyhow it does seem the consensus is that the matter is now history. I appreciate mine is probably a minority point of view. 

[jono]

4 minutes ago, europia said:

I've not really read any comments which would be categorised 'lynch mob' mindset, so I can't comment on that. It does seem however that the two individuals have been let off very lightly (no surprise in that). That in itself isn't necessarily sending the right message considering the seriousness of the crime. Not really sure about them being on probation, considering both were back in the squad just a week or so after the incident. Anyhow it does seem the consensus is that the matter is now history. I appreciate mine is probably a minority point of view. 

When I say probation, I mean everyone will be watching them, fans, club, agents.

Watching to see that they knuckle down and don’t repeat. I am forgiving but that doesn’t mean they are off the hook just because the court and club have punished them. This scrutiny is part of the price they will be paying for some time, and quite rightly.