Lawrence and Bennett Convicted of drink driving

[BathRam72]

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I don't think it's reasonable for this to be now a closed topic. What happened was serious.

I think I lean towards MilleniumRam's view of this. They need to have some kind of punishment. Making a couple of wealthy young men take taxis isn't really much of a punishment. I hope the community work they do really gives them a lot to think about and appreciate the uniqueness of their current situation, how lucky they are and how privileged they are to play for the Rams.

I wouldn't have been unhappy to see them lose their position as players, whether that means enforced time away from the first team, transfer listing or (perhaps too drastic to even consider) termination of contracts - although I see the very tough situation the club is in with regards to needing to get the most out of every club resource they have.

These two players need to feel some pain to make them think about what they did. I'm not convinced a driving ban, a pretty much pointless surcharge/fine and a swift return to first team football shows that we take their offence seriously. Honestly I think the one person who will be thinking longest and hardest about their decisions that night will be Keogh - because the punishment he's had, for basically making a bad decision when drunk, is far more tough than anyone else has had.

I think I would have been happy with a few weeks playing with the reserves, a lot of club related community work (maybe around alcohol related offenses - make them see the reality of what alcohol can do to families) and the inevitable driving ban. I wouldn't have cried if they had been sent down - it was serious enough in my eyes to warrant it.

As for double standards, I can see that. But our club can only do what it can do. I want those players to feel some pain to focus their attention so they make better decisions in future. If Rooney or anyone else had an offense, the club they are playing for at the time has to take responsibility to make sure some form of punishment reflects the seriousness of the offence, and makes them think. 

Restoration of faith in the players involved can only happen after a period of reflection on their actions, which is what I hope the club can make sure happens.

I am not defending the punishment they received, but the punishment they have is what they have got, and we all have to deal with that. Coming on here saying they should have got this, they should have got that is irrelevant (totally and utterly as IT WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING).

All I am saying is we now need to accept it and hope the club manage the pair of them and help them sort themselves out.

Berating them now is not helping.

Also while I am at it, looking at your post you say they should be punished more!!! I don't think putting them in the reserves out of the limelight is much of a punishment at all. Keeping them in and around the first team will be more of a reminder of their actions. after all they will still get paid wherever they play.

The punishment dealt by the courts is pretty much in line with your average person I am afraid whether you like it or not.

 

So all I am saying is accept it and try and help prevent another situation like this.

 

 

[rynny]

18 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

They could have lost their jobs and gone to prison. I'd say they got lucky. You could easily argue it was lenient.

That would have been worse case scenario. The club have imposed the maximum they could without having a detrimental effect to on the playing side (although some would argue against that), the courts have given a standard punishment. I would argue that neither have been extremely lenient to them. 

[GboroRam]

11 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

I am not defending the punishment they received, but the punishment they have is what they have got, and we all have to deal with that. Coming on here saying they should have got this, they should have got that is irrelevant (totally and utterly as IT WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING).

All I am saying is we now need to accept it and hope the club manage the pair of them and help them sort themselves out.

Berating them now is not helping.

Also while I am at it, looking at your post you say they should be punished more!!! I don't think putting them in the reserves out of the limelight is much of a punishment at all. Keeping them in and around the first team will be more of a reminder of their actions. after all they will still get paid wherever they play.

The punishment dealt by the courts is pretty much in line with your average person I am afraid whether you like it or not.

 

So all I am saying is accept it and try and help prevent another situation like this.

 

 

Everything I wrote is my personal view. I know that the court has made its decision, and that's final. But the club has other options available to it for reinforcing the message that personal conduct for players will be held to a higher standard than the man in the street. I'm fine with that, but that's at the club's discretion. 

Like I say, I hope the club find some very hard-hitting community work that will truly help these young men understand the gravity of their actions. Give something back to the community at the same time, it's a win-win. But they have to walk away from their situation feeling some consequence for their choices. 

Right now there's a chance they are walking out from court feeling relieved, maybe happy that they have avoided serious consequences. I don't want them happy right now - I want them vowing to never repeat this, or any other reckless decision. They are very privileged to play for this team, and that needs to be first and foremost in their minds. 

However you are right, we need to move on. They've been dealt with by the courts, the club has made a decision how they want to handle it and I think the pair of them are lucky that they didn't get penalised more.

[Ghost of Clough]

47 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

They could have lost their jobs and gone to prison. I'd say they got lucky. You could easily argue it was lenient.

The two main offences were DUI and hit-and-run. Breaking the punishment down to these two offences could give us a baseline of what a 'reasonable punishment' should be.

DUI - based on what the BrAC result was for Lawrence, a fine in the region of 75-125% of his weekly income and a driving ban of 12 to 16 months. For Bennett a fine of 125-175% weekly income, 17 to 22 month ban and a low level community order.
Hit-and-run - 5-10 points, £5k fine, plus up to 6 months if someone is seriously injured (grey area with it being a passenger).

The court punished both with 180 hours community work and a 2 year ban (I imagine the fines are still to be calculated unless the court took the club's punishment into consideration). That seems to be roughly on par with what a typical punishment should be and possibly even on the heavy side. The club also fined the pair 6 weeks wages and given 80 hours community work.
Overall, I feel they have been more than adequately punished, whilst still allowing both to redeem themselves.You could easily argue they were heavily punished.

[Bubbles]

Either way, not everyone is gonna be happy with the outcome of whats happened, people will always say they deserved more, and then if they got more people would say they deserved less.

The reality is that its all over and done with now, they've been punished by the courts, punished by the club, and thats that. The most important thing now is to keep the morale in the squad and get behind the lads, I have a feeling that Bennett and Lawrence probably aren't on the best of terms right now and I wouldnt be suprised to see Bennett leave and Lawrence stay, but come on lads, the judge has dealt with them, the club has too. None of this booing and hissing, get behind the lads and lets get some results in before christmas!!!

[desirelines]

44 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

These two players need to feel some pain to make them think about what they did

Who's saying these players aren't feeling pained by their actions? Shame is a very powerful emotion. 

Ryan Conway's piece in today's The Athletic suggests that both players are extremely remorseful and have been left emotionally shattered by the proceedings. Bennett has a young daughter to support, and Lawrence has a grieving family – I'm sure that this will have been a the source of immense pain for them both. 

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, Squid said:

Either way, not everyone is gonna be happy with the outcome of whats happened, people will always say they deserved more, and then if they got more people would say they deserved less.

The reality is that its all over and done with now, they've been punished by the courts, punished by the club, and thats that. The most important thing now is to keep the morale in the squad and get behind the lads, I have a feeling that Bennett and Lawrence probably aren't on the best of terms right now and I wouldnt be suprised to see Bennett leave and Lawrence stay, but come on lads, the judge has dealt with them, the club has too. None of this booing and hissing, get behind the lads and lets get some results in before christmas!!!

What makes you think that?

[Day]

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

I've reflected overnight on the punishment handed out by the courts, and it is lenient.

Ideally, they will both be sentenced to seven years transportation, and consider themselves blessed to have avoided the noose. The only possible flaw might be they both turn out to be good cricketers whilst avoiding the wee spider that bites you on the bum and kills you.

"waltzing the Keogh, waltzing the Keogh, who'll go a waltzing the Keogh with Bizzle"

[Coneheadjohn]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I'll save you the trouble of searching for it.

 

And I’m expecting my compo thankyou?

[GboroRam]

41 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

up to 6 months if someone is seriously injured (grey area with it being a passenger).

You could easily argue they were heavily punished.

If you ignore the grey area. And there was the possibility they would be given heavier sentences due to factors such as leaving the scene.

I think they won't be complaining with what they received, they would have been worrying about far worse happening.

[Bubbles]

38 minutes ago, David said:

 

Can someone let us know what is said cheers

[GboroRam]

44 minutes ago, desirelines said:

Who's saying these players aren't feeling pained by their actions? Shame is a very powerful emotion. 

Ryan Conway's piece in today's The Athletic suggests that both players are extremely remorseful and have been left emotionally shattered by the proceedings. Bennett has a young daughter to support, and Lawrence has a grieving family – I'm sure that this will have been a the source of immense pain for them both. 

I never said they aren't. I said in order to learn from it that's what has to happen. I really hope they are remorseful - but I'm sure there's plenty of people walk away from courts thinking they got off lightly, and I wonder in that circumstance if they truly do feel sorry for what they did.

Absolutely no idea what frame of mind these two have, and I trust the club will work hard to help them learn from their utterly foolish actions.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Everything I wrote is my personal view. I know that the court has made its decision, and that's final. But the club has other options available to it for reinforcing the message that personal conduct for players will be held to a higher standard than the man in the street. I'm fine with that, but that's at the club's discretion. 

Like I say, I hope the club find some very hard-hitting community work that will truly help these young men understand the gravity of their actions. Give something back to the community at the same time, it's a win-win. But they have to walk away from their situation feeling some consequence for their choices. 

Right now there's a chance they are walking out from court feeling relieved, maybe happy that they have avoided serious consequences. I don't want them happy right now - I want them vowing to never repeat this, or any other reckless decision. They are very privileged to play for this team, and that needs to be first and foremost in their minds. 

However you are right, we need to move on. They've been dealt with by the courts, the club has made a decision how they want to handle it and I think the pair of them are lucky that they didn't get penalised more.

Richard...…………Is that you?

[Coneheadjohn]

Bloody hell,even Mel’s injured now.

[Shang]

Mel Morris not live on radio:

• Mel has a back problem at the moment and is currently confined to bed.
• Mel says drinking and driving is rife through the football world, whole sport of football must learn from this.
• Needs to act as a deterrent for other footballers who do the same thing.

[RadioactiveWaste]

11 minutes ago, Shang said:

Mel Morris not live on radio:

• Mel has a back problem at the moment and is currently confined to bed.
• Mel says drinking and driving is rife through the football world, whole sport of football must learn from this.
• Needs to act as a deterrent for other footballers who do the same thing.

I'm not surprised if it's rife. I still remember a joey Barton interview from five of six years ago where he talked about how having consiqences free life as long as you keep being good at football (because agents and clubs run around fixing things) turns players into, well, knobs basically.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/crass-hypocrisy-or-refreshing-honesty-barton-says-most-footballers-are-knobs-1853909.html

Was longer ago than thought, 2010

[Coneheadjohn]

Natalie Sawyer slaughtering the lack of responsibility of the club.

[Srg]

20 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said:

Natalie Sawyer slaughtering the lack of responsibility of the club.

Yeah, well she shacked up with fellow SSN presenter Sam Matterface and had a kid together... and she called it Sawyer Matterface. So, her opinion on anything is null and void.

[GboroRam]

6 minutes ago, Srg said:

Yeah, well she shacked up with fellow SSN presenter Sam Matterface and had a kid together... and she called it Sawyer Matterface. So, her opinion on anything is null and void.

Still, better than Sawyer Sawyer.