Lawrence and Bennett Convicted of drink driving

[TommyPowell]

53 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Yes but he did that over a decade ago while not employed by us. No issue with people who’ve done it in the past and learnt their lesson being employed, but not those who do it under our employment.

How hypocritical can you get,This is their first  offence yet because they did it whilst Derby players you condemn then,But if a player has done the same whilst not being a Derby player at the time,thats fine with you.So good news for Rooney then

[Ghost of Clough]

19 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

The conversation started by asking what 58 and 64 micrograms equates to in volumes consumed. 

As has been mentioned I am not a legal expert so firmly will request that we don't go down that route. 

Did I tell you about the time I drank approximately 4 pints and blew roughly 60mcg/ml on a breathalyzer? ?

[Millenniumram]

2 hours ago, Montgolfier said:

If it had have been Martin, he'd have gone down.

Would have been more of a gentle stroll rather than flee from the scene as well?

[ollycutts1982]

11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Did I tell you about the time I drank approximately 4 pints and blew roughly 60mcg/ml on a breathalyzer? ?

That goes to show the variations and differences in tolerances. To my shame I have been done and I’d had 4 bottles of magners following a heavy night out and blew 51. Nothing to be proud of but just showing how it differs. 

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

That's double standards - How do they prove they've learnt their lesson unless you give them time to do so?

No it isn’t, because it’s an entirely different situation. This has been gone over many times by various members across the thread when discussing Rooney. A player getting done for a criminal offence while at the club, and one getting done for a criminal offence years before their employment are two vastly different things. If a person has been done years ago and hasn’t had any further offences since, it’s probably fair to say they learnt their lesson after their punishment. Thus, since I believe in People getting second chances, I have no probably with their employment. 

But just because I believe in second chances, doesn’t mean that I believe second chances should come at the place the offence was committed. No problem Lawrence and Bennett continuing their careers elsewhere once they’ve sorted themselves out, and I’d have no problem them being employed as a fan of another club. But they’ve dragged our clubs name through the mud, and committed pretty serious offences while under employment here. That’s not something they should be allowed to continue there employment here after imho. Give them time to show they’ve learnt their lesson yes, their careers shouldn’t end here, but give them that time elsewhere.

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, nottingram said:

So endangering lives is forgivable as long as they don’t endanger your football clubs reputation? Gotcha.

Where did I say that? You never forgive someone for something like this, but you can accept they’ve learnt their lesson and give them a second chance- but not until they’ve had to leave their current position and earn that second chance.

[Millenniumram]

31 minutes ago, TommyPowel said:

How hypocritical can you get,This is their first  offence yet because they did it whilst Derby players you condemn then,But if a player has done the same whilst not being a Derby player at the time,thats fine with you.So good news for Rooney then

I mean that’s not at all what I’ve said, is it?   

[oldtimeram]

I suppose they've been given their punishment and we need to move on, but I still believe they should have gone down for what they did

[Spanish]

8 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

I suppose they've been given their punishment and we need to move on, but I still believe they should have gone down for what they did

is that a standard punishment for the offence or merely because of their wealth/profession?  I don't know but I suspect that the punishment mirrors similar less profile cases

[MuespachRam]

I am sure that if this had been Tom and Mason the factory workers from chadd that they too would have received a 85 pound fine, a slap on the wrist and told not to do It again... 

pathetic...but did anyone really expect anything else..? 

[Sith Happens]

4 minutes ago, Spanish said:

is that a standard punishment for the offence or merely because of their wealth/profession?  I don't know but I suspect that the punishment mirrors similar less profile cases

I guess a good comparison is Dean Saunders. He received a custodial sentence although now just suspended. I know he failed to supply a sample but I cant see that's worse than what they did. I did feel his was harsh though. 

I think they are lucky.

[King Kevin]

Well the alcohol levels certainly aren't a hanging offence , enough to make you think you're Lewis Hamilton until you run out of talent.

[cheron85]

Appreciate where you're coming from but I still think it's a double standard - Your equivalent is like saying all criminals should be shipped off to the colonies - You're happy for criminals to rehabilitate, just not in your country thanks

22 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

But just because I believe in second chances, doesn’t mean that I believe second chances should come at the place the offence was committed. 

I'd argue the best place to rehabilitate yourself is your current job - You're suggesting they should be cut loose so not only do they have to deal with the punishment layed out by law and other issues they might have (ie, Lawrence's drinking) you also want them to deal with unemployment (for a time) and upheaval in their personal and professional lives as well

27 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

But they’ve dragged our clubs name through the mud, and committed pretty serious offences while under employment here. That’s not something they should be allowed to continue there employment here after imho.

I get that you don't like these players and you don't want them at the club and you feel offended by what they did - But there are plenty more examples of owners, players and staff over the years at Derby who have done much more malicious things - You might think our reputation is some glowing beacon of footballing purity but it isn't

None of us are going to get what we want our personal punishment for them to be - So we have to assume that the courts and the club will do the right thing and move on

9 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

I am sure that if this had been Tom and Mason the factory workers from chadd that they too would have received a 85 pound fine, a slap on the wrist and told not to do It again... 

pathetic...but did anyone really expect anything else..? 

I've seen far lesser punishments handed down for being a lot more drunk in charge of a car for regular folks - If that's what you're talking about

[Spanish]

8 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I guess a good comparison is Dean Saunders. He received a custodial sentence although now just suspended. I know he failed to supply a sample but I cant see that's worse than what they did. I did feel his was harsh though. 

I think they are lucky.

yep lucky especially for leaving the scene.

refusal is whole new level of offence and like you say that ended up suspended, internet says;

Under Section 7 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is a criminal offence to fail to provide a specimen for analysis, without reasonable excuse, when required to do so after driving / attempting to drive.

Anyone convicted of this offence will be classed as a high risk offender. High risk offenders are required to take and pass a DVLA medical before a driving licence will be issued to them upon expiration of their driving disqualification.

WHAT ARE THE PENALTIES FOR FAILING TO PROVIDE A SPECIMEN FOR ANALYSIS?

The penalty imposed upon conviction of failing to provide a specimen for analysis while driving or attempting to drive will depend upon the circumstances surrounding the offence.

The court will determine the offenders culpability and the harm caused as well as any aggravating and/or mitigating factors before passing sentence.

What is the minimum penalty for failing to provide a specimen for analysis while driving or attempting to drive?

A 12 month driving disqualification and a band B fine (75 - 125% of relevant weekly income) is the minimum penalty imposed for this offence at Magistrates court.

What is the maximum penalty for failing to provide a specimen for analysis while driving or attempting to drive?

A lengthy driving disqualification of 5 years or more and a 26 week custodial sentence is the maximum penalty imposed for this offence at Magistrates court.

 

[Gladram]

15 minutes ago, Spanish said:

is that a standard punishment for the offence or merely because of their wealth/profession?  I don't know but I suspect that the punishment mirrors similar less profile cases

Sentencing guidelines seem to suggest on the hide side due to leaving the scene rather than alcohol levels?

Source https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/excess-alcohol-driveattempt-to-drive-revised-2017/

[nottingram]

32 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Where did I say that? You never forgive someone for something like this, but you can accept they’ve learnt their lesson and give them a second chance- but not until they’ve had to leave their current position and earn that second chance.

I just don’t see what good arbitrarily sacking them would do.

Are we more likely to see them rehabilitated by supporting them through community work to understand potential consequences of their actions or sacking them where Club X then picks them up on the same salary if not more.

Drink driving is drink driving. It has the potential to end lives and that is the issue here. Shouldn’t matter where or when someone did it and who employed them and how long ago it was. Being happy to employ someone who has done it Y years ago but not Z weeks ago just doesn’t make sense, unless the crux of the issue is whether Derby employed them at the time.

[Spanish]

16 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

I am sure that if this had been Tom and Mason the factory workers from chadd that they too would have received a 85 pound fine, a slap on the wrist and told not to do It again... 

pathetic...but did anyone really expect anything else..? 

I don't think the fine has been decided given I believe it is income related; I guess they will be fined considerably more the lads from chadd.  The £85 was costs but correct me if I'm wrong

[AdamRam]

23 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

I guess a good comparison is Dean Saunders. He received a custodial sentence although now just suspended. I know he failed to supply a sample but I cant see that's worse than what they did. I did feel his was harsh though. 

I think they are lucky.

Saunders showed no remorse and was arrogant, he told the bench he could not do work in the community because of his job as a TV pundit travelling the country watching football matches.

Not a good comparison.

 

[Coneheadjohn]

We were debating today if they had got Pokey would the prison team have played Bizzle as a lone striker?

[Spanish]

Just now, Van Cone De Head said:

We were debating today if they had got Pokey would the prison team have played Bizzle as a lone striker?

depends whether they were playing Villa