v Brentford (A) Match Thread

[TimRam]

Putting out a weakened side v our biggest rivals shows how much Cocu cares about the fans. I digress...today was rubbish.

[S8TY]

3 hours ago, superzak said:

ROOS is the worst keeper ive seen at Derby since yakka banovic... and as for dowell ..well the sooner he goes back to scouse land the better

Agree and totally forgot about Yakka Banovic  lol .... I remember wanting  him to be so great due to his name ..................................

and..............................................he wasn't!!!! lol

[Sean]

Judging from this I don't think we need to worry about Cocu. Clearly he's doing his best not to burst into flames in anger here. poo performance but it's a marathon not a sprint.

[Marriot Ram99]

2 minutes ago, Duracell said:

Why are you so sure that Cocu was pulling the shots on all those transfers? I don’t think the club operates that way any more.

Lots of things to chew on about Cocu after today. His signings aren’t one of them - because I don’t think he’s made one yet. He barely had his foot in England when some of these signings were made.

Fair point, I think it is completely wrong if that is truly the case, it should always be the manager who has the final say over signings IMO. However, surely Cocu could see himself as a former world class midfielder that the midfield we have even before we had played competitive games was not good enough and needed boosting.

[Rambalin]

What I am seeing on here this week is exactly what I said would happen when people were going on about a rebuild,transitional season and accepting a mid table finish.I said then people would not accept it if we were not in the top six and challenging straight away and that is exactly what I am reading.

I was not there today but listened to the excellent Eric Steele and then Cocu about a unacceptable attitude and desire and only the players can answer why,though lots of  teams this season will be asked the same questions by its supporters at some point.

Cocu the player and manager did not win what he has by accepting that from his team mate's and players and I would expect a complete change around in the next game.He has to make changes his midfield to install it Bielik certainly goes in there,Shinnie will never be accused of lack of effort coming from the background he does and Holmes will come there too.

Hopefully Bogle will be back and I would throw in Mitchell Lawson his final ball maybe not the best at times but he will work hard and give his full back problems with his direct running.

Derby are not the first side to start slowly after a play off final defeat it happens more often than not but most recover to have reasonable seasons.Give Cocu time because a constant turnover of managers has created the current squad he will have a far clearer picture after today of the recruitment needed to make this team successful.

[Ruud Aralliss]

Just now, Owd miner said:

Trouble is mi owd moneys getting tight in my household and I'm paying hard earned cash.  I just want ta see summat worth mi cash I'm paying ... dunt think it's too much ta ask

And mine. Watching football is probably the only luxury I have , but I spend time with my boy who is a mad Derby fan and I still value it over a nice car or all the other bulls.1t people spend their money on. It hurts us just as must as you and everyone that has retorted angrily to my “let’s give it more time than August “ type posts, but the reality is we have to.  We might lose more games this season but let’s not be as short sighted as the clubs when it comes to managing. If we just get rid of Cocu because he is looking to the future then no one will, ever. And the last thing we need is another manager ?‍♂️

[Duracell]

1 minute ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

Fair point, I think it is completely wrong if that is truly the case, it should always be the manager who has the final say over signings IMO. However, surely Cocu could see himself as a former world class midfielder that the midfield we have even before we had played competitive games was not good enough and needed boosting.

We can see it because we know the team. He had one full pre-season match with his team before competitive action started.

I think after the match, in his interview, you can tell he knows more than anyone that the display today was a far away from “good enough” as you can get.

After the loss of Wilson and Mount, I do think it was a big ask to get Cocu to turn up to the third day of pre-season training (remember we started our preparation manager-less!) and expect him to identify the issues, solve the issues and adjust to the Derby way of doing things in three or four weeks before the deadline day closed.

Cocu’s made mistakes and I’ll be honest, today was much worse than I thought the worst would be. Playing this badly does, at least, give Cocu the chance to learn and put things right.

So long as he learns at a faster rate than the fans’ patience runs out, he’ll be fine. 

[GrimsbyRam]

23 minutes ago, derbydaz22 said:

A fully fit Fozzy walks into this team.

Well he cannot run any more! ? 

[Ruud Aralliss]

15 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

The fans that have possibly seen one of the poorest weeks in Derby’s recent history.

why do we have to have a transitional season every season. Easy excuse

But we haven’t tho have we? Lampard set his team up for a short stay.  Cocu might ACTUALLY be that transitional season. But we  will never know if we sack every manager before Halloween. If we’re in the top 6 come October how is that transitional???

[RandomAccessMemory]

10 minutes ago, Duracell said:

I disagree. I think the truth is more worrying. We’re trying to blood youngsters in, but with the exception of Keogh and Waghorn, I’m not sure we’ve got a glutinous selection of experienced senior pros that I think the youngsters should look up to.

A lot of people are making it sound like the youngsters are playing by design, but when you look at the players on the bench (some of which aren’t fully fit), much of it is actually out of necessity.

I think you're right about the necessity, I'm not sure they'd have had so many minutes if the squad was fully fit. But I think we know they're essential to the future of the club, and it is by design that they're in and around the squad and that we didn't add too many signings to block their pathway. However we probably weren't expecting so many injuries or maybe the length of time out for the ones already injured.

[Tyler Durden]

9 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

Fair point, I think it is completely wrong if that is truly the case, it should always be the manager who has the final say over signings IMO. However, surely Cocu could see himself as a former world class midfielder that the midfield we have even before we had played competitive games was not good enough and needed boosting.

I think Helen Keller could have seen that our midfield isn't good enough never mind an ex international footballer 

[europia]

53 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

Football is a simple game.

Usually the cream rises - as we can see with four of the top six spots being occupied by three teams who were in the top 8 last season and Fulham, who were the strongest team coming down from the Premier League.

The only real surprises are Swansea and Charlton, and probably both clubs have benefitted from not trying to change too much too quickly. A little continuity goes a long way. 

Sadly we have had the core of our team ripped out. It is probably easier to deal with if the manager is already in place and already planning ahead. But when you add a new manager to the mix, it complicates things.

A simple game is being complicated.

Some critical elements in the team have been replaced by two standout players from League 1 who are being relied upon to make the step up, and three players who offer no more than squad depth.

There is a big deficit in quality and as good a coach and a tactician Cocu might be, we are asking a lot from him when it's abundantly clear we haven't given him the tools to compete.

Have to agree. We now know in no uncertain terms what Mount & Wilson (who had his critics) gave us in terms of creativity and goal threat. Tomori was also outstanding. These players were probably a luxury. Cocu now knows the challenge he faces with a very average looking squad. 

The protracted departure of Lampard has cost us valuable preparation time, but the chairman seemed happy to accommodate whatever Chelsea FC wanted (perhaps there was a multi million pound compensation package in mind....)

Anyhow, people should get off the managers back. Cocu is very good, but he's not a magician.  

[DavesaRam]

22 minutes ago, Ruda Harliss said:

What kind of fan is booing, impatient ones who faced with a transitional season can’t handle it before the end of August?

Ringing any bells?

So those fans who boo’d an absolutely disgraceful performance should instead have applauded it, should they?

The Deby fans are a tremendous bunch who the club have stuck two fingers into their nostrils and dragged them this way and that for years now, with no reward, save a few short spells of ok football.

I can remember under Nigel there were several times we would go on a run and really threaten to break into the top two, and then immediately implode and drop back again with no real reason for it - oft the “implode” would include losing to teams on huge losing streaks.

We had Mel’a promises of free season tickets if we got promoted, and the team would go charging up the league, starting just after the announcements, only to magically fall away again once the deadline had passed. That happened two or three times. We had the inexplicable play off semi-final disasters against both Hull and Fulham. And so it goes, yet the fans have stuck by the club through it all. 

We are forgetting that is well as a sport, football is in the entertainment business, with aim of entertaining the fans. Eventually the loyalty to support the team will be challenged by the abject lack of entertainment. 

I myself said I wouldn’t mind where we finish this season so long as the players and management team were giving it their all, but already this season we have had at least 4 absolutely dire performances. I didn’t go today, but noticed that despite being shat all over by Cocu’s team selection, announced once the ticket-sell-our had been achieved, nobody criticised the players - not a single boo. But eventually something has to give. When the team has such a lacklustre approach to the match, and the same duffers being picked when all they’ve done is break up attacking moves, should we show them we think they are doing a fine job?

Or could we possibly be justified in saying “Could do better”?

Snother issue is that the fans are spending a relatively high proportion of their hard-earned income to watch a bunch of millionaires or millionaires in the making fail to perform time and time again. They have a right to complain, I reckon.

My commitment to stick by the team regardless of end result so long as they put the graft in is probably echoed by most here, but let’s at least see the effort and commitment from the team.

[GrimsbyRam]

5 minutes ago, Ruda Harliss said:

But we haven’t tho have we? Lampard set his team up for a short stay.  Cocu might ACTUALLY be that transitional season. But we  will never know if we sack every manager before Halloween. If we’re in the top 6 come October how is that transitional???

Don’t agree. If Lampard had finished 12th Chelsea would not have wanted him and he would have been here. Lampard was cute enough to know the only way you get up is quality loans (Wolves, Huddersfield, Villa etc) or workhorses and experience (Cardiff, Sheffield Utd etc).

Watford have done alright out of changing managers to get up and stay up. Villa realised when it wasn’t working with Di Matt and then Bruce.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

I don't necessarily mind the idea of sending them out on loans to get them that game time, but then I think, have they really worked for us in the past? How many have come back from a loan and into our team? If you do that then it has to be the right club and somewhere they will definitely play, so it has to be with a manager who trusts in youth.

Lowe?

But if the players aren't good enough then even if they go out we don't have them back - ie Gordon, Thomas, Timi Max ...

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, Malagaram said:

Wonder what thoughts are going through Mel Morris's brain

Why am I investing so much time and money trying to satisfy so many fickle fans?

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, europia said:

Anyhow, people should get off the managers back. Cocu is very good, but he's not a magician.  

Whose back should we be getting on then?

And please refrain from waxing lyrical about we should be supporting the team, tell that to the 3300 fans who went to the city ground in the week to watch that tripe served up or the fans who travelled down to London today to see that abject display 

 

 

[alexxxxx]

4 minutes ago, europia said:

The protracted departure of Lampard has cost us valuable preparation time, but the chairman seemed happy to accommodate whatever Chelsea FC wanted (perhaps there was a multi million pound compensation package in mind....)

Anyhow, people should get off the managers back. Cocu is very good, but he's not a magician.  

Bang on. Ridiculous preseason.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Football is a simple game.

...There is a big deficit in quality and as good a coach and a tactician Cocu might be, we are asking a lot from him when it's abundantly clear we haven't given him the tools to compete.

He should still be getting better from the tools he has. Maybe if he stopped playing around with them?

[Ruud Aralliss]

20 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

What I am seeing on here this week is exactly what I said would happen when people were going on about a rebuild,transitional season and accepting a mid table finish.I said then people would not accept it if we were not in the top six and challenging straight away and that is exactly what I am reading.

I was not there today but listened to the excellent Eric Steele and then Cocu about a unacceptable attitude and desire and only the players can answer why,though lots of  teams this season will be asked the same questions by its supporters at some point.

Cocu the player and manager did not win what he has by accepting that from his team mate's and players and I would expect a complete change around in the next game.He has to make changes his midfield to install it Bielik certainly goes in there,Shinnie will never be accused of lack of effort coming from the background he does and Holmes will come there too.

Hopefully Bogle will be back and I would throw in Mitchell Lawson his final ball maybe not the best at times but he will work hard and give his full back problems with his direct running.

Derby are not the first side to start slowly after a play off final defeat it happens more often than not but most recover to have reasonable seasons.Give Cocu time because a constant turnover of managers has created the current squad he will have a far clearer picture after today of the recruitment needed to make this team successful.

This.  @about5or6postersatm