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v Brentford (A) Match Thread


jimbo jones

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1 hour ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

If we looked like this too often I would get rid of him, better paying him off than the fortune you would loose in club value and future revenue if we were looking like going down. I am not saying we should get rid now, but if this continues I would not hesitate to get rid, before Halloween comes round if it came to it. With Cardiff and Leeds coming up , things could get toxic pretty quickly if we play poorly vs Cardiff with Leeds away after that.

And who do you think would come in with the players we have now, whoever it was would want a big wedge in the January window to augment the squad we already have,if that's the case give Cocu the funds to bring fresh blood in, give him funds now to bring a free agent in. All this doesn't stop at Cocu's door what about some of the blame being bandied about directed at the recruitment team, they would have known long before Cocu arrived the state the squad would be in this season, made even worse by injuries. Everybody thinks that come January that Rooney is going to be the saving grace,me,well come January with what's going on in his private life is whether he will actually join us. 

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17 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Obviously winning games helps. 

Likewise fans turning on the team after 5 or 6 games doesn't help.

Bogle/Bielik/Marriott could be major parts of this team unfortunately a proportion of our fans would see the manager sacked before these players are even up to full fitness.

I'm angry as anyone about today's performance because I hate to see professional footballers not doing the basics.

The overreaction though is pathetic and symptomatic of our 'fanbase' these days. 

I genuinely preferred it when we were building something under Nigel Clough with 20,000 real fans.

Season ticket holder since 87. It is not an over reaction. Sometimes things do not fit. This has all the hallmarks of another ‘Pearson’.

Can you genuinely tell me what style he is trying to play? What is the formation he’s trying to play? How we are looking to create chances? There is nothing there. Our best game (first half) was against a Huddersfield team that has won one league game since the end of NOVEMBER 2018.

Out recruitment has been terrible. Out go Tomori, Johnson, Bryson, Wilson, Mount (if you want to add Nugent as a regular player on our bench that we have not replaced). We have not recruited in terms of numbers or quality. Paterson and Dowell do not improve us (in areas where it is obviously needed). 

Id love nothing more than you to shove this post back down my throat believe me

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Just heard Cocu post match comments and although you have to agree with what he says once you start to publicly berate your players and say they lack desire and effort its the beginning of the end.

He needs to take a breath leave that nonsense behind close doors at start to pick the correct players in there correct positions,its no good saying we have a lot of injuries the only one were missing really is Bogle.

He may well be good at bring youth through but not in this league if you are not totally ready as there are no hiding places you will be found out

Brentford as had a poor start and not won at home,enter Derby County for easy pickings,the next two games will not define our season but the two after that may do.

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30 minutes ago, IslandExile said:

And play who instead?

Shinnie? Paterson?

Bogle in a leg brace?

More kids?

The kids aren't ready. The senior players aren't good enough. The three loanees covered up the cracks last year.

None of that is Cocu's fault. He needs to be given time. He didn't have a chance in such a short preseason.

Those suggesting Pullis....I despair.

UTR ? 

At last someone talking sense,it’s been a poor start and the midfield balance is not right. With Bogle back and the polish lad hopefully playing in midfield we should be more competitive but we are lacking creativity and Cocu needs time as he’s got his hands full with this lot.

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32 minutes ago, Derby blood said:

Sounds like you want to go with how Rowett set his team up, fans hated him, but we still got in the play offs with a ageing team, but that needed changing , at the moment we have a young team who need support, they will not get that with some Derby fans  but it's only 6 games in and the patience of some have gone already, please let's start to judge after 16 games have gone, we need to stay together as a club and supporters need to support this young new team, success will come but it will take time.

Absolutely not, I want us to be free flowing and free scoring, hence saying I'd much prefer us to be that, but most managers seem to like to build their teams from the back, start by stopping the others scoring, get that right and then the focus shifts onto the other end of the pitch. I probably should have said 'for the time being, until we're a bit more settled as a team and some players are back from injury' after going more defensive away from home, as I didn't mean indefinitely, I just don't think it can be easy for the team to be so overran in a first half, it must be very demoralising, we don't want it to happen again any time soon.

I assume this was the case (building from the back) as our recruitment seemed focused on the defence and defensive midfield, our main signing is a defensive midfielder / central defender. We made more defensive signings than attacking with another defensive midfielder permanently, and then a defender and a goalkeeper on loan coming in. Contrast that to one attacking midfielder and one winger, when we clearly lost more (in both quantity and quality) from the more advanced positions than the defence in the summer. (There's obviously Rooney too but not until January.)

If we're wildly inconsistent at defending that then I'd guess it's really hard to switch the focus forwards as you'd be asking the players to focus on their defensive duties?

I totally agree with you, they need our support, I hope the inconsistencies can be worked out, it's not like we've not had these games before where we've just seemed to totally capitulate, it's not the young players fault, it's not a new phenomenon, I actually find it really strange, I can't put my finger on why we do this sometimes, but we've done the same thing under so many managers it's really odd, we just need to make sure they're rare occurrences from now on as it can't be good for the squads morale!

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Cocu sounded as close to angry as he's likely to sound in that interview. Said he'd learned a lot about some of the players there, which I hope means Dowell and Lawrence.

He was shocked by that performance, which is encouraging. Work on the training ground over the break, and a fresh start.

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50 minutes ago, Alpha said:

That's what I've been saying about Jozefzoon. 

He was criticised in the Bristol game for getting the ball 25 yards out and passing it back to a white shirt

I don't think he's much good either. But getting the ball within 25 yards yards and finding a white shirt is a lot better than getting the ball within 25 yards and being too fecking stupid to see you even have team mates. Or getting the ball within 25 yards and... oh! It's gone. I didn't even get it under control. 

He's not as good as Simon Dawkins at holding possession and creating pressure in the final third. But compared to a couple of others he's Chris Martin in 13/14!!! 

Abso chuffin lutely mate 

id rather a player retained possession and was deemed to be “not doing much” than constantly giving it away cheaply in the hope that one every blue moon moment happens for them 

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I feel for Cocu in this. Same team as last game, totally different outcome. 

Aside from swapping out Huddlestone for Bileik and sticking Clarke in, not much else he could pick. Big ask on Holmes to start 2 matches in a week having been injured for so long.

Midfield was a big problem last season until Johnson added some battle and Mount back from injury. But we had Wilson and Mount who could do things from nothing, covered a lot of issues and Tomori with his pace could bail us out of a lot of situations.

We didn't replace those and realistically, we couldn't, Mount was far too good for this league, as was Wilson in terms of shooting from nothing. It has exposed a serious lack of quality and we somehow expect our new manager to get that sorted in such a short space of time? Having lost Holmes and Marriott nearly all pre season, two key players for us. We lost a lot of players in the summer , characters such as Nugent, players who had been together a season or two. We don't have that togetherness and it needs to be rebuilt.

The club can't keep changing tack, we have made a plan and we have to give it time. Otherwise it is just season after season of going round and round.Fed up of the ridiculous reactions and complete lack of patience. Anyone who expect us to make a flying start was living in a different world.

 

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7 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I feel for Cocu in this. Same team as last game, totally different outcome. 

Aside from swapping out Huddlestone for Bileik and sticking Clarke in, not much else he could pick. Big ask on Holmes to start 2 matches in a week having been injured for so long.

Midfield was a big problem last season until Johnson added some battle and Mount back from injury. But we had Wilson and Mount who could do things from nothing, covered a lot of issues and Tomori with his pace could bail us out of a lot of situations.

We didn't replace those and realistically, we couldn't, Mount was far too good for this league, as was Wilson in terms of shooting from nothing. It has exposed a serious lack of quality and we somehow expect our new manager to get that sorted in such a short space of time? Having lost Holmes and Marriott nearly all pre season, two key players for us. We lost a lot of players in the summer , characters such as Nugent, players who had been together a season or two. We don't have that togetherness and it needs to be rebuilt.

The club can't keep changing tack, we have made a plan and we have to give it time. Otherwise it is just season after season of going round and round.Fed up of the ridiculous reactions and complete lack of patience. Anyone who expect us to make a flying start was living in a different world.

 

Agree with parts of this but I genuinely cannot see what he is trying to achieve. It is the manner of the performances that concern me not the results. How many games have the keepers had to make ‘game changing’ saves? There is not many

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6 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I feel for Cocu in this. Same team as last game, totally different outcome. 

Aside from swapping out Huddlestone for Bileik and sticking Clarke in, not much else he could pick. Big ask on Holmes to start 2 matches in a week having been injured for so long.

Midfield was a big problem last season until Johnson added some battle and Mount back from injury. But we had Wilson and Mount who could do things from nothing, covered a lot of issues and Tomori with his pace could bail us out of a lot of situations.

We didn't replace those and realistically, we couldn't, Mount was far too good for this league, as was Wilson in terms of shooting from nothing. It has exposed a serious lack of quality and we somehow expect our new manager to get that sorted in such a short space of time? Having lost Holmes and Marriott nearly all pre season, two key players for us. We lost a lot of players in the summer , characters such as Nugent, players who had been together a season or two. We don't have that togetherness and it needs to be rebuilt.

The club can't keep changing tack, we have made a plan and we have to give it time. Otherwise it is just season after season of going round and round.Fed up of the ridiculous reactions and complete lack of patience. Anyone who expect us to make a flying start was living in a different world.

 

Were already a team that is going round and round im afraid,i agree with your point about Clarke playing and Bileik in midfield most supporters can see the same however Cocu cant and that is a concern

We had some poor performances last year under FL but at least he gelled with supporters win or loose we have lost all that togetherness already

Two week break now and lets see were we are after that.It does seem the start of every season that goes by we have players injured or unfit Bogle is different he was injured playing.

There is no reason why Bileik should not be ready and dont get me started with Marriott FL did not play him for months as he said he was not match fit

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57 minutes ago, GenBr said:

If you want positives there are two teams below us who have parachute payments. (and that's impressive because there aren't that many teams below us). Although it is slightly worrying that the bottom team actually looked rather good against us.

If you want positives Alfreton Town are 3rd in NLN ?

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6 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

Can Grimsby Ram or David pop into Blundell Park and ask "Can we have Jamie Hanson back please",scored another 2 today

That's James Hanson, journeyman centre forward formerly of Bradford.

Jamie Hanson plays for Oxford, sometimes.

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38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Obviously winning games helps. 

Likewise fans turning on the team after 5 or 6 games doesn't help.

Bogle/Bielik/Marriott could be major parts of this team unfortunately a proportion of our fans would see the manager sacked before these players are even up to full fitness.

I'm angry as anyone about today's performance because I hate to see professional footballers not doing the basics.

The overreaction though is pathetic and symptomatic of our 'fanbase' these days. 

I genuinely preferred it when we were building something under Nigel Clough with 20,000 real fans.

Whilst I agree with you about sacking PC being a massive overreaction, let’s not kids ourselves it was any different when Clough was in charge, only difference was that the social media was not as big as it is now. 

Cocu needs to be given time, would be ludicrous to sack him now, no matter where we finish this season.

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23 minutes ago, Malagaram said:

Wonder what thoughts are going through Mel Morris's brain

Listen Mel wants the young players to be given a chance, he knows he has a very tight budget to work from, want Cocu is doing is what Mel wanted, apart from the defeats, but he knows it will take time. And those fans going on about how good Frank was, are they the same ones who moaned about his first 11 against Villa, every fan in the ground knew we was not going to win that game let's all get behind our new boss Cocu. And let's support the lads when the season starts again on 13th of September, I can see it getting a lot better, then I will remind some of you the comments you were making earlier on in the season, I have book marked this thread, let's discuss in Jan 2020.

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It's been a poor start. There is no escaping that. I think if this was three years ago, Mel would already be getting the itch.

But surely he will understand that this was never going to be straightforward. We are Derby County. When is it ever straightforward?

We have a foreign manager who is entirely new to English football and entirely new to the second tier.

Regardless of his pedigree, that was always going to represent a challenge. It's a steep learning curve and it's probably expecting too much for him to have figured everything out in the space of 8 weeks.

What will help is getting everyone fit. Any manager will suffer when three or four key players are either injured, returning from injury or working towards full match sharpness.

I would imagine the team will look totally different in September - the style will be more embedded and the personnel at his disposal will be stronger.

 

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Expected a meltdown on here and we’re getting one!! Today it is probably justified. I didn’t think we’d have a smooth start to the season. We had a deserved victory against Huddersfield, played well enough to beat Swansea and West Brom and debatably well enough to get a point at Stoke. Forest aside, the two bad performances were Bristol (which wasn’t that bad) and today which was horrendous. 

I can see a plan, I can see what he’s trying to do but we’re being badly affected by injuries in the full back areas, and the balance of the midfield remains wrong. The midfield you could level at Cocu but Holmes has been injured and is having to play full back because of the injury situation, Dowell isn’t doing it right now and Huddlestone in some of the games has been found wanting, yet for some reason he doesn’t like Shinnie.

It needs more work on the training ground, and it needs Bogle Wisdom Fozzy Malone fit again so we don’t have to play people out of position, Bielik to get match fit for midfield (Bristol proved he wasn’t), and then he can play the likes of Holmes in midfield to get up and support the forwards. 

We probably needed this today to highlight our shortcomings. This was always a tough game, Whatever their results before today , Brentford at home are as good as anybody, that front three with Benrahma and Watkins is frightening - if you’re not on it they will find you out, and they did. 

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