Vs Watford (A) Match Thread

[DavesaRam]

13 minutes ago, Topram said:

God knows then

So lets cough up for this lad from Celtic. Or watch him go somewhere else. Now which one of those is it going to be?

[Artram]

1 hour ago, Anag Ram said:

How did JWZ play?

Didn’t have much to do in the way of shot-stopping apart from the two goals he didn’t have a chance at. Made one good punch and generally came across as confident and commanding bar a mix up where he was slow on the ball and his clearance was charged down.

 

Distribution seemed better when throwing than with his feet but sure this is something he’ll work on

[Srg]

6 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Although not "directly" from a set piece, Jackson's goal was a counter attacking from their corner. Not exactly from "open play"

Our goal today was from a throw in, which is literally a set piece.

You’re going to start including counter attacks and goals from throw ins, which aren’t even long throws either, then we may as well all pack up because every team are basically Pulis with your metrics. 

[vonwright]

Nothing wrong with the application but we need extra quality in at least three key positions, and time is running short. Otherwise feels like things might get a bit Rotherham-y

[Jubbs]

13 minutes ago, Srg said:

goals from throw ins, which aren’t even long throws either

By definition, a throw in is literally a set piece. 

[Tamworthram]

27 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Although not "directly" from a set piece, Jackson's goal was a counter attacking from their corner. Not exactly from "open play"

Our goal today was from a throw in, which is literally a set piece.

A goal from a set piece is when you score a goal from one of your own set pieces. Usually a penalty, a corner or a free kick but I guess you could include a long throw in or even a long goal kick but, no one in their right mind would include a goal scored on a counter attack from an opponent’s corner.

Regarding todays goal, how many touches need to occur before it’s no longer considered a goal from. Set piece?

Edited August 24 by Tamworthram

[Srg]

2 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

By definition, a throw in is literally a set piece. 

Unless you’re scoring from a long throw, no person is classing a short throw in as a set piece goal. Chuck your definitions wherever you want, you know you’re being facetious to try and hammer a point you want to make. It’s having the opposite effect you’re going for. 

[Jourdan]

Three points from three is not ideal, but it’s not a disaster either.

I think we have to take the positives - we’ve won one game and we were close to two away draws but need to sharpen up all over the pitch and get into the habit of closing out games where we can. It’s very small margins at the moment.

I understand people’s concerns with the lack of possession and control of games but clearly the opposition is a step up. The teams we are up against have better players and players who can keep possession well and are more comfortable doing so. Goudmijn is the only player we have who is naturally good in possession and even he will lose possession due to the physicality and pace of English football. What can we do?

Let’s see where we are at the end of September. We have three home games out of four coming up. The squad hopefully will have been strengthened and we’ll have a better idea of how competitive we can be.

It’s definitely no time to panic. Most teams in the league are suffering from a reality check. We haven’t lost ground on any of our relegation rivals, perhaps with the exception of Blackburn.

Oxford, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Stoke and Wednesday have all got three points or fewer. No-one is making it look easy.

[Jubbs]

7 minutes ago, Srg said:

Unless you’re scoring from a long throw, no person is classing a short throw in as a set piece goal. Chuck your definitions wherever you want, you know you’re being facetious to try and hammer a point you want to make. It’s having the opposite effect you’re going for. 

I mean it was directly from a throw, whether the throw was short or long. Doesn't change the fact we really need to improve attacking from open play.

[ariotofmyown]

6 hours ago, WystonRam said:

This place is ok

Looks good, where was that?

[Crewton]

1 hour ago, Jubbs said:

All 4 of our league goals this season have come from set pieces and we look so toothless going forward from open play.

One small point of order - I don't think you can class Jackson's goal against Boro as "coming from a set piece", since it was Boro's set piece and Jacko ran 3/4 of the length of the pitch to score it, if you include where he started from.

Otherwise, fair post.

[DavesaRam]

A great start, just what we needed, and confirmation that their defence can be a bit wobbly if you get at them. Only we didn't! Did our goal sting them into upping their game? or did we do what Warne seems to like us doing, and sit back to hold onto the one goal lead? In which case, what on earth were we thinking? I don't think any team can defend for a full 90 minutes, especially when most of those minutes were  simply attack v defence.

Actually, like last week, as I said earlier, the match was better than I expected, and I'm not too down about the result - it could have been worse. We didn't create very much, but neither did Watford, who mostly were limited to longer range efforts. And after what we have endured for far too long, it is great to watch a team where the players are worthy of the shirt, Barks excluded  h  he is struggling to impress. 

Earlier in this thread somebody suggested that we need to change our attitude- we are coming on to the pitch as though we are the tramp at the party. As he said, we have every much a right as anybody else to be in the championship - we are there on merit. Oh for an Igor Stimac, who strutted around the pitch, home or away demanding of the other teams "What are you doing on the same pitch as me?" I know, we aren't the bestest, strongest team in the division, and we may be the poor boys because of the still restricted budget, but we have to have more belief in ourselves.

As this why we struggle to build anything in attack? DO we think just getting the ball clear is enough? OR is it Paul's desire to get the ball up field as quickly as possible? Which means we invariably thump the ball into the channels, hoping somebody is going to get there before the defenders, with it inevitably coming straight back.  A Little more composure and playing through to feet on occasion would yeild better results. Until the run in last season, on the rare occasions we played through the middle, and played the ball into the area via the penalty area "D" we got good returns on it. In Goudmijn we have someone who is capable of unlocking defences like that, and to a degree we that in Liam Thompson. He made a big difference hen he came on today, carrying on where he left off against Chesterfield. He should be starting matches, not getting a Man of the Match  award and then getting dropped. 

However it was fine margins today, and we held our own. I can put up with the low block, counter attack methodolgy we are having to use - it is a case of needs must. A few new faces and a few tweaks and we should be fine! COME ON YOU RAMS.

[nogbad van 50]

1 hour ago, GeneralRam said:

Gonna be a long season

They all are!

[Gerry Daly]

59 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

Although not "directly" from a set piece, Jackson's goal was a counter attacking from their corner. Not exactly from "open play"

Our goal today was from a throw in, which is literally a set piece.

rubbish

[Nuwtfly]

4 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

What shape do you think suits us better? 
Should add that’s a genuine question, I personally can’t see a more viable option with the players missing and wanting to get the likes of NML and Jackson into their best positions. 

Good question!

My honest answer would be any system that doesn’t leave the centre of midfield so open, especially if the game plan is to try and defend the game out and hit the opposition on the break.

Pack the centre with two defensive midfielders if that’s how you want to play. Or go back to 3 at the back with two battling centre mids. At the moment we’re playing this weird 4-3-3 where the left and right sided midfielder keeps drifting out wide leaving one on their own in the middle. 

[Gerry Daly]

9 minutes ago, DavesaRam said:

A great start, just what we needed, and confirmation that their defence can be a bit wobbly if you get at them. Only we didn't! Did our goal sting them into upping their game? or did we do what Warne seems to like us doing, and sit back to hold onto the one goal lead? In which case, what on earth were we thinking? I don't think any team can defend for a full 90 minutes, especially when most of those minutes were  simply attack v defence.

Actually, like last week, as I said earlier, the match was better than I expected, and I'm not too down about the result - it could have been worse. We didn't create very much, but neither did Watford, who mostly were limited to longer range efforts. And after what we have endured for far too long, it is great to watch a team where the players are worthy of the shirt, Barks excluded  h  he is struggling to impress. 

Earlier in this thread somebody suggested that we need to change our attitude- we are coming on to the pitch as though we are the tramp at the party. As he said, we have every much a right as anybody else to be in the championship - we are there on merit. Oh for an Igor Stimac, who strutted around the pitch, home or away demanding of the other teams "What are you doing on the same pitch as me?" I know, we aren't the bestest, strongest team in the division, and we may be the poor boys because of the still restricted budget, but we have to have more belief in ourselves.

As this why we struggle to build anything in attack? DO we think just getting the ball clear is enough? OR is it Paul's desire to get the ball up field as quickly as possible? Which means we invariably thump the ball into the channels, hoping somebody is going to get there before the defenders, with it inevitably coming straight back.  A Little more composure and playing through to feet on occasion would yeild better results. Until the run in last season, on the rare occasions we played through the middle, and played the ball into the area via the penalty area "D" we got good returns on it. In Goudmijn we have someone who is capable of unlocking defences like that, and to a degree we that in Liam Thompson. He made a big difference hen he came on today, carrying on where he left off against Chesterfield. He should be starting matches, not getting a Man of the Match  award and then getting dropped. 

However it was fine margins today, and we held our own. I can put up with the low block, counter attack methodolgy we are having to use - it is a case of needs must. A few new faces and a few tweaks and we should be fine! COME ON YOU RAMS.

Just imagine if we still had Sibley......

[Gabby'sThighs]

1 hour ago, Topram said:

Liam copper free agent?

he'll cost a few pennies

[Tamworthram]

39 minutes ago, Jubbs said:

I mean it was directly from a throw, whether the throw was short or long. Doesn't change the fact we really need to improve attacking from open play.

How do you define "directly"? There were 3 Derby players that played the ball before it arrived at Adam's feet. 

The move may have started with a throw in but I think you're in a very small minority if you're describing the goal as "directly" from a throw in.

[rammieib]

Even without the early goal from us, we were set up to play this way.

This is why I dislike PW. I get the argument that this maybe the best way to get points, especially away from home, but we have no creativity, no desire to keep the ball and no ambition.

This is the mindset of a manager whose experience has told him - try not to lose.

If this is where we are… then fine. But don’t give me comments like DC with ‘competitive budget’ because that for me = midtable. 
 

Yates was so deep today that even counter attacking wasn’t feasible. Ebou often dropped in to make it five at the back. For the inevitable times they lost the ball and we could have pounced the problem was that every other Derby player was either already level or behind the ball.

I just don’t enjoy watching it. I still think we lose the majority of games when we set up like this - so I’d sooner have some belief and try and attack more.

Kenji is head and tails above anyone for intelligence on this team but he has zero to work with. 

We know we are short in depth. TB is literally drowning and NML looks ineffective with this style of play.

Ozoh and Ebou are battlers in the middle but neither offer that skill or ability on the ball that Kenji can.

It’s going to be a long season - I don’t have the confidence that anyone we bring in will be better than what we have and I don’t have the faith that PW can coach good football. He’s a one dimensional manager who doesn’t have the ability to out coach other teams at this level.

I thought Nyambe was decent today and at times linked up well with Kenji. I also thought Tommo played well when he came on as he had more confidence on the ball than many others.

 

[nottingram]

Whether throw ins are set pieces are not we do appear to have a bit of an open play problem. 

0.33, 0.96, 0.21 our xG from open play in our league games so far is not great, with even the 0.96 only coming from 2 shots, albeit circumstances meant we sat on that rather than pushing on. 

We do appear to have retained a good level from set pieces and so whoever is responsible deserves a lot of credit for that, but I do not at the moment see much from open play to think we are particularly sophisticated or able to go through patterns of play and create chances. I don’t think you can be as reliant on set pieces as we seem to be. 

On the flip side Pompey are similar (from 3 very very tough games) but Oxford have fared better so far.