Reading v Derby match day thread.

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Was he ever going to say anything else?

I can't really take your comments seriously at the minute, because I know you're going to try and spin everything back on Warne, which is quite tiring really as it makes any discussion feel pointless.

What are some things you like about Warne's time as Derby manager, just for the sake of parity?

I'm deeply saddened that you can't take my comments seriously. I've read your comments to other posters you don't make snidey personal comments to them on reply, so just ignore mine then. 

If I wanted to say things I like about Warne's time at Derby it would only be that the end of it must be getting nearer. 😄

 

Edited January 24 by RoyMac5

[Ghost of Clough]

49 minutes ago, Archied said:

How many players on the wage bill that warne hasn’t brought in and probably on big wage for our level ? Let’s be honest they are often the players the over the top brigade keep screaming should be dropped as they are no good , past it , not putting any effort in 

How many of Warne's 12 signings from this season (not including Embleton) are starters in a fully fit squad? Only Nyambe, Nelson and Blackett-Taylor? Maybe Wilson too depending on formation. Only Neson and Wilson have played in more than 50% of the total minutes this league season. The only other signing to be on the pitch more than Sibley is Nyambe.

Maybe if Warne spent what he did more wisely, he would have improved our starting 11 more than we have. How much are we paying Washington, Waghorn and John-Jules? Collectively, they've been on the pitch 400 mins less than our 8th most used player. Wages wasted on Embleton who only featured for 52 minutes. High end wages for the likes of Bradey and Wardcand barely playing.

[Jourdan]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How many of Warne's 12 signings from this season (not including Embleton) are starters in a fully fit squad? Only Nyambe, Nelson and Blackett-Taylor? Maybe Wilson too depending on formation. Only Neson and Wilson have played in more than 50% of the total minutes this league season. The only other signing to be on the pitch more than Sibley is Nyambe.

Maybe if Warne spent what he did more wisely, he would have improved our starting 11 more than we have. How much are we paying Washington, Waghorn and John-Jules? Collectively, they've been on the pitch 400 mins less than our 8th most used player. Wages wasted on Embleton who only featured for 52 minutes. High end wages for the likes of Bradey and Wardcand barely playing.

I think the problem is that our fans expect players to come in and perform straight away.

Players are rarely signed on three-month contracts, yet they probably should be because that is the grace period players get before being written off and deemed poor recruitment or a failure.

Just because Ward, Bradley, Washington and others haven’t yet met expectations, it doesn’t mean that they can’t come to the fore in their second or third seasons with the club.

It always reminds me of Vydra. He really struggled in his first season but then was our best and most valuable player the following season.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, Eoghan1884 said:

Our best 5 games this season in my opinion were 

Peterborough, Blackpool, Northampton, Barnsley, Oxford (bar first 20 minutes) 

in these 5 games Fozzy and Wildsmith started all them With Nyambe and Korey starting 4 of them.

I think them 4 players are so important as they are all steady hard working lads who might not stand out but do the hard yards and usually are always at least a 7/10

I think the sooner we can get them 4 boys back in the 11 the better we will do.

Aslo Washington and Waghorn were involved in a few of those games scoring a few and getting an assist or two. 

Our current group of players (excluding unavailable players) look dead on their feet. I also think a few of them look comfy thinking they have a right to start no matter how they play. 

Luckily Joe is available and Korey n Ryan should be available to start vs Charlton a win against Cheltenham Saturday could spark another run with all these players coming back into contention.

Apart from Nyambe for one of them, they all played in the draw at Cheltenham and the defeats against Crewe, Shrewsbury and Stevenage.

Just sayin. 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, Jourdan said:

I think the problem is that our fans expect players to come in and perform straight away.

Players are rarely signed on three-month contracts, yet they probably should be because that is the grace period players get before being written off and deemed poor recruitment or a failure.

Just because Ward, Bradley, Washington and others haven’t yet met expectations, it doesn’t mean that they can’t come to the fore in their second or third seasons with the club.

It always reminds me of Vydra. He really struggled in his first season but then was our best and most valuable player the following season.

In the example you give it was because Pearson signed him for his 442. We then sacked him and hired McClaren who wanted to play 433 - Vydra is neither a lone forward or a winger. The following season was under Rowett who played him with a strike partner.

What's the excuse for Warne when he's made these signings himself? 

[Jourdan]

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

In the example you give it was because Pearson signed him for his 442. We then sacked him and hired McClaren who wanted to play 433 - Vydra is neither a lone forward or a winger. The following season was under Rowett who played him with a strike partner.

What's the excuse for Warne when he's made these signings himself? 

It’s not about making excuses. The reality is that not every signing works right away. Some need more time, some need more patience, some need a run of games and some are a project and just need good man management and nurturing.

Given finances are tight, can we really afford to consign players to the list of failures already?

Even the very best coaches with the very best set ups off the pitch can make mistakes in the transfer market. Look at Guardiola and his search for a keeper a while back.

Difference is that we can’t really afford to be so ruthless with our management and turnover of players.

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, angieram said:

They don't though, do they? At least not individually. Collectively, maybe.

But there are plenty of posters a bit undecided about the quality of football and about Warne's tactics at the games. Against Burton, against Lincoln, against Reading. Even against Oxford until we launched a storming fight back.

I'm at nearly every game and there are a fair few of the regulars - the ones who encourage for the full 90 minutes, that stay behind and applaud the team regardless of results - that are still feeling ambivalent about Warne's style in particular and whether he is getting the best out of this set of players.

That is telling.

I'm not talking about the ones trooping down the stairs making obscene hand gestures at the few players who dared approach the stands to applaud us, I'm talking about the die-hards. 

I think - a bit like voters in general - the vast majority of us are somewhere in the middle, not at the extremes.... either positive or negative.

Last night saw things that have worked suddenly not working. Cashin booting a diagonal way over Kane Wilson's head whereas the other week he tried the same pass and dropped it on the spare player's toes.

It was bad.....but I don't think all of that can be on Warne. And he did make changes with plenty of time - another area I've been critical of him over. The performance didn't improve but hey ho...

Well done for being a continued stalwart Angie.

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I think the problem is that our fans expect players to come in and perform straight away.

Players are rarely signed on three-month contracts, yet they probably should be because that is the grace period players get before being written off and deemed poor recruitment or a failure.

Just because Ward, Bradley, Washington and others haven’t yet met expectations, it doesn’t mean that they can’t come to the fore in their second or third seasons with the club.

It always reminds me of Vydra. He really struggled in his first season but then was our best and most valuable player the following season.

I had no expectations for Washington 😢

[angieram]

1 hour ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I think - a bit like voters in general - the vast majority of us are somewhere in the middle, not at the extremes.... either positive or negative.

Last night saw things that have worked suddenly not working. Cashin booting a diagonal way over Kane Wilson's head whereas the other week he tried the same pass and dropped it on the spare player's toes.

It was bad.....but I don't think all of that can be on Warne. And he did make changes with plenty of time - another area I've been critical of him over. The performance didn't improve but hey ho...

Well done for being a continued stalwart Angie.

It was blowing a hooley- not the night for playing those sort of balls. We were all screaming for the guys to keep it on the deck! 

They do panic a bit at times.

[Sparkle]

9 minutes ago, angieram said:

It was blowing a hooley- not the night for playing those sort of balls. We were all screaming for the guys to keep it on the deck! 

They do panic a bit at times.

That’s the problem though as they are all very experienced players and they still aren’t gods enough to play football or they are not allowed too

[Crewton]

3 hours ago, nottingram said:

Fair enough in that case. Not to move the goalposts too much but I’d be surprised if the players signed by half of those were on our radar, and two of them sold players in the summer for (for them) significant transfer fees. Which brings us on to paragraph 2 of my previous post…

Ultimately it’s a pointless discussion as he’s not going anywhere, but imo he is doing at very best about par. I just really really struggle with the argument he is not backed or is working with his hands tied. In my opinion it is fantasy designed to excuse what so far is a transfer record that is crap if you’re feeling generous. I wonder how much it comes to when you tally up the wages we must be spending on his signings that so far look to be pretty poor either due to a bad initial fit, abandoning 3ATB after 3 games or just that they don’t seem to be very good or he doesn’t trust them anyway. 

Hang on a sec - if his transfer record is worse than crap, isn't he doing rather well to get a pile of crap to within 3 points of the top with the rubbish he's signed? I mean, given the comments about some of Rosenior's signings and the lads that have come through the academy, hasn't he been saddled with allot of underperforming drek (using your logic)?

I agree that this is a pointless discussion, but it's hard to let some of this stuff pass unchallenged......

Edited January 24 by Crewton

[europia]

3 hours ago, Andicis said:

Last night was pretty rubbish,  the result of course but more evidently the football. I'm slightly worried that a purple patch before the Peterborough game has made Derby look a bit better than we are really. No, it's not necessarily about playing good football, but it is about controlling games, and we don't do that well. We also look quite toothless going forwards at the moment.

The season is far from doomed, but there needs to be a marked improvement for Cheltenham and onwards for us to compete in the positions we should be. 

Agree with all of that. The current squad obviously has it's limitations and that's why results like Lincoln and Reading have to be kept in context. I'm not 100% convinced about Warne, but it may well turn out that he's done pretty well with the players at his disposal. I expect we will win against Cheltenham and pick up more points on a mini run, then have a couple of bad results again. Theres bit of a pattern. The main frustration for supporters is that  League 1 is there for the taking this season, but we just can't grind out results when we are in touching distance. With our record, battling it out via the play offs is not a prospect that many will look forward to. 

[nottingram]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

Hang on a sec - if his transfer record is worse than crap, isn't he doing rather well to get a pile of crap to within 3 points of the top with the rubbish he's signed? I mean, given the comments about some of Rosenior's signings and the lads that have come through the academy, hasn't he been saddled with allot of underperforming drek (using your logic)?

I agree that this is a pointless discussion, but it's hard to let some of this stuff pass unchallenged......

I don’t remember making any comment about Rosenior’s signings or the academy players in truth. So not really sure how that is my logic to be honest.

The issue I think is two and a half windows in and Nyambe, Nelson (both very good signings to his credit) and maybe one of Wilson and CBT would be Warne signings who get in our best 11, in my opinion. Maybe one of the forwards he’s signed if any of them could stay fit for more than 5 minutes. 

[Crewton]

14 minutes ago, nottingram said:

I don’t remember making any comment about Rosenior’s signings or the academy players in truth. So not really sure how that is my logic to be honest.

The issue I think is two and a half windows in and Nyambe, Nelson (both very good signings to his credit) and maybe one of Wilson and CBT would be Warne signings who get in our best 11, in my opinion. Maybe one of the forwards he’s signed if any of them could stay fit for more than 5 minutes. 

Not you specifically, but by the tenor of the harshest critics on the forum generally - Warne inherited some of our best performers but also some that are at the top end of our wage structure who divide opinion at best eg : Hourihane, Barkhuizen, Smith, Collins, Bird and Sibley.

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Not you specifically, but by the tenor of the harshest critics on the forum generally - Warne inherited some of our best performers but also some that are at the top end of our wage structure who divide opinion at best eg : Hourihane, Barkhuizen, Smith, Collins, Bird and Sibley.

Yep don’t disagree with that at all but guess my point is even though they divide opinion (personally I like most of them as players) but we have failed to improve on them despite making a fair few signings who are presumably on pretty hefty wages themselves.

That makes it pretty difficult for me to swallow an argument that he’s particularly hamstrung by the conditions he’s working in, is all. Which was my original point. 

I can accept it’s probably tough to improve up front without being able to spend money on a forward - as in players like Bishop, Charles, Adeboyejo have cost their clubs fees. But any other issues in the squad I can’t really accept as an excuse at this stage personally. 

[Archied]

11 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How many of Warne's 12 signings from this season (not including Embleton) are starters in a fully fit squad? Only Nyambe, Nelson and Blackett-Taylor? Maybe Wilson too depending on formation. Only Neson and Wilson have played in more than 50% of the total minutes this league season. The only other signing to be on the pitch more than Sibley is Nyambe.

Maybe if Warne spent what he did more wisely, he would have improved our starting 11 more than we have. How much are we paying Washington, Waghorn and John-Jules? Collectively, they've been on the pitch 400 mins less than our 8th most used player. Wages wasted on Embleton who only featured for 52 minutes. High end wages for the likes of Bradey and Wardcand barely playing.

You see this is my problem ( not you alone but the many fronted attacks ) , we have people saying that with the players / squad we have ,ie much better than other clubs , we should be smashing the division , jeez even any fan off this forum could have them top 6 at least ,,,,, then warne warne signs absolute dross is the cry ,

surely you can see why any fans who are ok with seeing how warne pans out can be frustrated at the amount of sticks chosen to beat him with 🤷🏻‍♂️

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

1 hour ago, Archied said:

You see this is my problem ( not you alone but the many fronted attacks ) , we have people saying that with the players / squad we have ,ie much better than other clubs , we should be smashing the division , jeez even any fan off this forum could have them top 6 at least ,,,,, then warne warne signs absolute dross is the cry ,

surely you can see why any fans who are ok with seeing how warne pans out can be frustrated at the amount of sticks chosen to beat him with 🤷🏻‍♂️

Recruitment is something I'll give Warne some slack on, even though I do believe we attempt to recruit based on the type of squad he wants to build. Ultimately he's not in full control of it, but he is a key part of the process.

On the recruitment front I'd be more interested in what that fella we hired from Oxford has been up to. 

Edited January 25 by JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

[Gaspode]

21 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I think everyone at the club knows this squad would struggle in the Championship. In fact, I there isn't a L1 squad which wouldn't. Any side getting promotion this season will make at least 7 signings in the summer, as is always the case for promoted sides.

An even bigger concern is how the manager would cope in the Championship - his lack of tactical acumen would kill us at a higher level. I'm beginning to think that the reason Rotherham got relegated so often after getting proomoted had far more to do with the limitations of the manger than any financial issues.....

[RoyMac5]

37 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Recruitment is something I'll give Warne some slack on, even though I do believe we attempt to recruit based on the type of squad he wants to build. Ultimately he's not in full control of it, but he is a key part of the process.

On the recruitment front I'd be more interested in what that fella we hired from Oxford has been up to. 

How will we know who he's put forward to Warne that has been refused? After all Billy 'BigBalls' Waghorn wasn't wanted! 😄 And we've also managed to sign Washy - who will cost us money if we go up.

Edited January 25 by RoyMac5

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

I think it's interesting that although in interview after the Lincoln game players were saying words to the effect that they had a frank exchange of views nothing really changed apart from they were worse at Reading. 

Also am I the only one that gets aggravated hearing players in pre-match interviews saying " we know what we've got in the dressing room" meaning they think they're good. Don't say it, show it......