Reading v Derby match day thread.

[YorkshireRam]

2 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

Plenty of people advocated for time, which is fair enough, but Warne has had over a year at this point and the same issues keep cropping up.

How many points are we better off this season than last? Doesn't that increase alone validate the calls of patience?

I'm tempted to respond to these ''same issues'' that keep cropping up by mentioning the mitigating circumstances he's faced- very tight finances and inability to buy the players he wants. He's rebuilding a club without being able to pay transfer fees (yet). So if we're lacking a body in midfield (which seems to be the issue of the day), then couldn't it be argued he's likely to be aware of that, but simply isn't in a position to rectify it with the resources currently at his disposal?

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

6 minutes ago, Archied said:

Ftfy 

If the same issues and deficiencies didn't keep showing up we wouldn't have to keep repeating ourselves. 

If you find it boring that's not my problem. 

[simmoram1995]

29 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

I don't want him to be sacked, but I would not be unhappy if he walked tomorrow and we got someone else in. He's doing well enough to be given a crack to the end of the season, if not longer.

The signing of CBT has again underlined the difficult situation he's been faced with. Not being allowed to spend money on players, unless we exploit some weird loan loophole.

But would another manager have got more out of this squad by now? Or last season? I think so. But that's not to say I don't support him and the team.

Tbh I’d take Warnock’s “ I’d f*****g die for three points” approach he’d get us over the line 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

5 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

How many points are we better off this season than last? Doesn't that increase alone validate the calls of patience?

I'm tempted to respond to these ''same issues'' that keep cropping up by mentioning the mitigating circumstances he's faced- very tight finances and inability to buy the players he wants. He's rebuilding a club without being able to pay transfer fees (yet). So if we're lacking a body in midfield (which seems to be the issue of the day), then couldn't it be argued he's likely to be aware of that, but simply isn't in a position to rectify it with the resources currently at his disposal?

The resources available to Warne are greater than a majority of clubs in this division, even if they are limited by the standards we are used to. The idea that Warne is operating on a shoestring in L1 simply doesn't stack up.

Our wage bill is one of the highest in the league, if the club hasn't been able to assemble a balanced squad with it then that's on Warne, Pearce and Clowes. The mitigating factor for Warne there is that he's not the only person in control of transfers, so I'll concede that, but he's certainly a big part of that process and not some impoverished manager bereft of options.

[Magicman]

Think we are missing Fozzy,  Nyambe and Korey Smith a lot . 

[YorkshireRam]

5 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The resources available to Warne are greater than a majority of clubs in this division, even if they are limited by the standards we are used to. The idea that Warne is operating on a shoestring in L1 simply doesn't stack up.

Our wage bill is one of the highest in the league, if the club hasn't been able to assemble a balanced squad with it then that's on Warne, Pearce and Clowes. The mitigating factor for Warne there is that he's not the only person in control of transfers, so I'll concede that, but he's certainly a big part of that process and not some impoverished manager bereft of options.

Using wages in this way I think is a bit of a misnomer. When rebuilding a squad, ideally you want to cherry-pick the important players that enable your style of play- very rarely are these players out of contract, they often require transfer fees. For whatever reason, restrictions, finances etc. we haven't been able to do this headhunting that we probably needed to, hence often having to play square pegs in round holes? 

It's not about money, but specifically being able to recruit players under contract. 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Using wages in this way I think is a bit of a misnomer. When rebuilding a squad, ideally you want to cherry-pick the important players that enable your style of play- very rarely are these players out of contract, they often require transfer fees. For whatever reason, restrictions, finances etc. we haven't been able to do this headhunting that we probably needed to, hence often having to play square pegs in round holes? 

It's not about money, but specifically being able to recruit players under contract. 

It was clear to Warne when he took the job. Indeed it was stated by Pearce(?) that Warne was happy with that squad and was adaptable.

Edited January 24 by RoyMac5

[Eoghan1884]

Our best 5 games this season in my opinion were 

Peterborough, Blackpool, Northampton, Barnsley, Oxford (bar first 20 minutes) 

in these 5 games Fozzy and Wildsmith started all them With Nyambe and Korey starting 4 of them.

I think them 4 players are so important as they are all steady hard working lads who might not stand out but do the hard yards and usually are always at least a 7/10

I think the sooner we can get them 4 boys back in the 11 the better we will do.

Aslo Washington and Waghorn were involved in a few of those games scoring a few and getting an assist or two. 

Our current group of players (excluding unavailable players) look dead on their feet. I also think a few of them look comfy thinking they have a right to start no matter how they play. 

Luckily Joe is available and Korey n Ryan should be available to start vs Charlton a win against Cheltenham Saturday could spark another run with all these players coming back into contention.

[nottingram]

29 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

Using wages in this way I think is a bit of a misnomer. When rebuilding a squad, ideally you want to cherry-pick the important players that enable your style of play- very rarely are these players out of contract, they often require transfer fees. For whatever reason, restrictions, finances etc. we haven't been able to do this headhunting that we probably needed to, hence often having to play square pegs in round holes? 

It's not about money, but specifically being able to recruit players under contract. 

How many clubs at this level are in a position to spend fees on players under contract? 3 or 4? Including us as however you want to paint the CBT deal, we have paid a fee for him. Which I’ve no issue with by the way, I think it’ll be a good signing. But don’t think we need to pretend he’s working with two hands behind his back. 

I bet it’s even less than 3 or 4 who are in a position to resist 7 figure bids for players.

If finances are tight then recruitment has to be bob on. The summer window was terrible. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The resources available to Warne are greater than a majority of clubs in this division, even if they are limited by the standards we are used to. The idea that Warne is operating on a shoestring in L1 simply doesn't stack up.

Our wage bill is one of the highest in the league, if the club hasn't been able to assemble a balanced squad with it then that's on Warne, Pearce and Clowes. The mitigating factor for Warne there is that he's not the only person in control of transfers, so I'll concede that, but he's certainly a big part of that process and not some impoverished manager bereft of options.

How many players on the wage bill that warne hasn’t brought in and probably on big wage for our level ? Let’s be honest they are often the players the over the top brigade keep screaming should be dropped as they are no good , past it , not putting any effort in 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

It was clear to Warne when he took the job. Indeed it was stated by Pearce(?) that Warne was happy with that squad and was adaptable.

Yes why couldn’t he just come and say the players are crap and he can’t do duck all with this lot 😂😂😂😂, 

he’s said he needs to bring in players to improve the team and add to the squad , that’s pretty much the max you will get ( rightly so ) from ANY manager not looking for the sack or wanting to get the job in the first place but hey you crack on with the fantasy island stuff to make you right 😂

Edited January 24 by Archied

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Archied said:

Yes why couldn’t he just come and say the players are crap and he can’t do duck all with lot 😂😂😂😂, 

he’s said he needs to bring in players to improve the team and add to the squad , that’s pretty much the max you will get ( rightly so ) from ANY manager not looking for the sack or wanting to get the job in the first place but hey you crack on with the fantasy island stuff to make you right 😂

It meant he said it at interview. FFS don't you get that?

[Archied]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

It meant he said it at interview. FFS don't you get that?

Oh I get it alright 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂, 

you do say some pretty stupid stuff

[Crewton]

35 minutes ago, nottingram said:

How many clubs at this level are in a position to spend fees on players under contract? 3 or 4? Including us as however you want to paint the CBT deal, we have paid a fee for him. Which I’ve no issue with by the way, I think it’ll be a good signing. But don’t think we need to pretend he’s working with two hands behind his back. 

I bet it’s even less than 3 or 4 who are in a position to resist 7 figure bids for players.

If finances are tight then recruitment has to be bob on. The summer window was terrible. 

Well, according to the L1 transfer tracker, all of Blackpool, Carlisle, Charlton, Cheltenham, Exeter, Fleetwood, Orient and Oxford have so far paid undisclosed fees for players from other EFL clubs.

[nottingram]

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Well, according to the L1 transfer tracker, all of Blackpool, Carlisle, Charlton, Cheltenham, Exeter, Fleetwood, Orient and Oxford have so far paid undisclosed fees for players from other EFL clubs.

Fair enough in that case. Not to move the goalposts too much but I’d be surprised if the players signed by half of those were on our radar, and two of them sold players in the summer for (for them) significant transfer fees. Which brings us on to paragraph 2 of my previous post…

Ultimately it’s a pointless discussion as he’s not going anywhere, but imo he is doing at very best about par. I just really really struggle with the argument he is not backed or is working with his hands tied. In my opinion it is fantasy designed to excuse what so far is a transfer record that is crap if you’re feeling generous. I wonder how much it comes to when you tally up the wages we must be spending on his signings that so far look to be pretty poor either due to a bad initial fit, abandoning 3ATB after 3 games or just that they don’t seem to be very good or he doesn’t trust them anyway. 

[YorkshireRam]

56 minutes ago, nottingram said:

How many clubs at this level are in a position to spend fees on players under contract? 3 or 4? Including us as however you want to paint the CBT deal, we have paid a fee for him. Which I’ve no issue with by the way, I think it’ll be a good signing. But don’t think we need to pretend he’s working with two hands behind his back. 

I bet it’s even less than 3 or 4 who are in a position to resist 7 figure bids for players.

If finances are tight then recruitment has to be bob on. The summer window was terrible. 

I see your point. I've wondered (completely speculatively) whether Warne agrees with the decision not to sell Bird and Cashin, or whether he'd prefer to have the funds to strengthen the squad? Not that we'll ever know, but I have wondered that recently. 

[McArthur Park]

First chance I've had, since getting back at 2am last night and being busy today, to read the match thread! Not sure I dare!

[YorkshireRam]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

It was clear to Warne when he took the job. Indeed it was stated by Pearce(?) that Warne was happy with that squad and was adaptable.

Was he ever going to say anything else?

I can't really take your comments seriously at the minute, because I know you're going to try and spin everything back on Warne, which is quite tiring really as it makes any discussion feel pointless.

What are some things you like about Warne's time as Derby manager, just for the sake of parity?

[Andicis]

Last night was pretty rubbish,  the result of course but more evidently the football. I'm slightly worried that a purple patch before the Peterborough game has made Derby look a bit better than we are really. No, it's not necessarily about playing good football, but it is about controlling games, and we don't do that well. We also look quite toothless going forwards at the moment.

The season is far from doomed, but there needs to be a marked improvement for Cheltenham and onwards for us to compete in the positions we should be. 

[nottingram]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said:

I see your point. I've wondered (completely speculatively) whether Warne agrees with the decision not to sell Bird and Cashin, or whether he'd prefer to have the funds to strengthen the squad? Not that we'll ever know, but I have wondered that recently. 

It’s something I do struggle with a little, in that the messaging from the club about the long term seems to largely be at odds with football based decisions. Things like hiring a promotion specialist who (on all evidence so far) struggles at the level above on a 4 year deal, resisting bids that would really allow a rebuild for players on expiring contracts.

I guess where I differ is that I think Warne effectively has the keys to the club and we keep them because he wants to, even though it makes little long term sense. IMO, which means little and like you purely speculative, it’s not a sensible way to operate. Selling assets at the right time needs to be how basically every club outside the Prem + Parachutes should run. Leaving that in the hands of someone whose role is short term by nature is daft.