Reading v Derby match day thread.

[Mucker1884]

53 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I know you're a creative writer, I'm your editor. I've bought you a new pen, some lovely ink and expensive paper. Go on write a best seller. What do you mean you're being asked to write left-handed with one hand behind your back (the one you actually write with!). Get on with it, write! All the tools you need are there, pick up the pan and write! Don't you care or what?!

#pisstekker!

 

I'll have you know that not only has my name appeared in the court column of the local rag, but they also published a poem of mine on the readers letter page.
Not just any poem, but a passionate poem railing against the naysayers (Oakwood residents, in essence), and rallying for the yeah-sayers to allow that beautiful training ground of ours through the planning stage, up, and built!  I hasten to add... We Won! 🐏

... and I wrote it using a Derbyshire Swan's feather quill, dipped in by own black and white blood, whilst holding said quill between one's teeth.  ("One's teeth", not one tooth, yeah!)  (My hands were probably otherwise engaged in something equally as passionate, but less shared with the Derby public! 🤓)

So yeah, I've had that passion... back in my prime!

But...

1/  I ain't no writer.
2/  I ain't creative.
3/  I ain't a professional.
4/  Ergo, I don't need passion to lob a few grumbling words on an internet forum, which by default leaves it open to ridicule.  That I can take, without any hint of shame.  Those so-called professionals we're discussing... regardless of the tools at their disposal, and regardless of any perceived tethering... do not... should not... be allowed the same excuses.  They should feel shame this morning.

 

 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Warne’s RD interview was interesting. He magnanimously said he brings Bradley on to score from set pieces and since he didn’t score, that was one Warne got wrong. Apart from that …  it’s all down to the players. The problem is : if the players are continually blamed and if they don’t believe in him as a tactician, then they lose their motivation. And his ‘gas out’ approach can only work if they are 100% motivated. 
Players enjoy playing good football. He needs to find a way to get them playing better football 

Out of interest. Do you think Warne enjoys being the manager of our football team?

[Dcfcsr92]

10 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Ah, so it's style you want, not results?

You don't get points for style. It's great of you can achieve both, but I very much care about how many points we are off the top, because that will dictate which division we're playing in next season, and I'd prefer it to be the Championship. As it stands, Warne has a better chance of taking us there than a new manager with no chance to bring in "his" players and no chance of a honeymoon period. Sacking a manager when you're in the play-off positions doesn't have a great history of success AFAICR.

 

So what happens when we miss out on autos and lose in the playoffs what the point in it then? Football is ment to be entertaining it not!  If we go up we will come straight back down as we are poor with no style of football look at billy davies he won games 1-0 poor football went up and had no chance warne is basically doing exactly the same i would prefer to watch good football and walk away from the game and be like that wss really good (ie wembley vs qpr) then be bored watching us stuggle to a league 1 team get a 1-0 win just 

[BramcoteRam84]

All this crap starting to emerge again about style of play after 1 defeat. It’s tiresome. Idiots on Twitter (including some of our prominent podcasters) flip flopping again from it’s all brilliant to the world is now caving in, saying the performances for weeks have been awful and this is a continuation. b*******. While our performances haven’t been scintillating they haven’t been bad. We lost to a Posh side who is flying right now (can happen with young teams, can just as easily fall away), the Fleetwood and Burton games were patchy, we were good for 50 mins against Burton before we let them back in with individual errors. Lincoln was a struggle but seemed like one of those games to get through unscathed, that happens.

Last night was abject in every sense of the word. One of the worst performances under Warne and far worse than recent games. Where as Lincoln made everything a fight and a contest, Reading were there for the taking and we missed a huge opportunity. And it wasn’t down to style of play or Warne’s tactics, wasn’t even down to his subs although I agree he should’ve left Liam on. It was down to players not doing their jobs and underperforming. Not doing the basics such as being able to pass the ball to another teammate, poor first touches, wrong decisions. Frustrating given a lot was at stake last night but this performance is on the players and they need to put it right.

4 winnable games coming up now, we move on. 

[YorkshireRam]

6 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Warne’s RD interview was interesting. He magnanimously said he brings Bradley on to score from set pieces and since he didn’t score, that was one Warne got wrong. Apart from that …  it’s all down to the players. 
 

The problem is : if the players are continually blamed and if they don’t believe in him as a tactician, then they lose their motivation. And his ‘gas out’ approach can only work if they are 100% motivated. 
 

Players enjoy playing good football. He needs to find a way to get them playing better football 

I take your point. To the media, Warne seems to front up and accept responsibility for losses, i'd hope it's the same behind closed doors. The second part about belief in tactics is a tricky one as we'll likely never have a definitive answer. 

I think the Cheltenham game next up is huge. It's an easier game on paper (no games are ever easy though) and one where I'm not sure 3 points alone is adequate if we're serious about promotion. We need a proper performance that rebuilds confidence and potentially sets us on another run. This is going to require solid man management and motivation from Warne to achieve- I hope he does and we can start to rebuild form.

[Mucker1884]

53 minutes ago, The Big One said:

For how terrible we were, I thought Reading were decent last night, god knows how they are bottom 3.  

I had similar thoughts after Saturday's game.  (Granted Lincoln weren't/aren't that low down).

And to a slightly lesser degree, after the Burton game too.

That's 3 consecutives games where the "lowly" opposition "haven't appeared to be too bad".

 

I do hope this is merely some sort of coincidence, and not the beginnings of an actual real life pattern forming!  👀

 

[Dcfcsr92]

3 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

All this crap starting to emerge again about style of play after 1 defeat. It’s tiresome. Idiots on Twitter (including some of our prominent podcasters) flip flopping again from it’s all brilliant to the world is now caving in, saying the performances for weeks have been awful and this is a continuation. b*******. While our performances haven’t been scintillating they haven’t been bad. We lost to a Posh side who is flying right now (can happen with young teams, can just as easily fall away), the Fleetwood and Burton games were patchy, we were good for 50 mins against Burton before we let them back in with individual errors. Lincoln was a struggle but seemed like one of those games to get through unscathed, that happens.

Last night was abject in every sense of the word. One of the worst performances under Warne and far worse than recent games. Where as Lincoln made everything a fight and a contest, Reading were there for the taking and we missed a huge opportunity. And it wasn’t down to style of play or Warne’s tactics, wasn’t even down to his subs although I agree he should’ve left Liam on. It was down to players not doing their jobs and underperforming. Not doing the basics such as being able to pass the ball to another teammate, poor first touches, wrong decisions. Frustrating given a lot was at stake last night but this performance is on the players and they need to put it right.

4 winnable games coming up now, we move on. 

Warnes tactics The only midfielder doing anything and because bird and hourihane are undroppable like alot of players in warnes team he has to replace tommo because why? 

[jimtastic56]

36 minutes ago, tomsdubs said:

Every pass or cross sent in his direction tonight was nowhere near him or they read it like a book, prime Ronaldo could have been up there tonight would have made shag all difference.

I could be “Clutching at Straws “ here , but didn’t Warne say they couldn’t train on Monday , because it was windy ? Was it windy last night also ?

[BramcoteRam84]

1 minute ago, Dcfcsr92 said:

Warnes tactics The only midfielder doing anything and because bird and hourihane are undroppable like alot of players in warnes team he has to replace tommo because why? 

Wasn’t the reason we lost.
 

We don’t know situation, Tommo could be managing something. Hourihane and Bird are his senior players so he’s relying on them, the former because he can have a poor game and still win you a match. We’re light in midfield right now and I think you’ll see Tommo play a big role in the run in. He hasn’t really got a lot of options, he can’t rely on Fornah based on his performance in the Trophy the other week.

[Dcfcsr92]

1 minute ago, jimtastic56 said:

I could be “Clutching at Straws “ here , but didn’t Warne say they couldn’t train on Monday , because it was windy ? Was it windy last night also ?

I dont know, but my son has played on the indoor pitch at moor farm loads of times and i can tell you now its not windy in there 🤣

[Crewton]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I think even Phill Brown would struggle to not finish top 2 with this squad. Someone like Warnock would jump at the chance of managing us thhrough to the end of the season, and it's easy to see him gettting a lot more out of us than we've seen

It's pure conjecture though, regardless of their respective records. The question is - is it worth gambling when we're 3 points off the top?

[Dcfcsr92]

Just now, BramcoteRam84 said:

Wasn’t the reason we lost.
 

We don’t know situation, Tommo could be managing something. Hourihane and Bird are his senior players so he’s relying on them, the former because he can have a poor game and still win you a match. We’re light in midfield right now and I think you’ll see Tommo play a big role in the run in. He hasn’t really got a lot of options, he can’t rely on Fornah based on his performance in the Trophy the other week.

Thats rubbish bird and hourihane doesnt work simple! You dont need to be a senior player to play if your good enough your good enough give robinson a chance try something different try fapetu get some legs in midfield! Look when clough was here hendrick hughes and thorne in midfield and none over the age of 23, teams play on our midfield because we are poor! You press quickly on bird and hourihane and they lose the ball because there slow and have a touch too many too many times

[Dcfcsr92]

Just now, Crewton said:

It's pure conjecture though, regardless of their respective records. The question is - is it worth gambling when we're 3 points off the top?

How many points have we thrown away tho? We could be miles top get it in your head we have one of the strongest squads in the league we should be up there its simple 

[Alty_Ram]

It's obviously pretty much impossible to put the perfect performance in week after week but by any reckoning, that was an utterly dismal showing for which there can be no excuses. We didn't look average, we looked worse than that.

18 games left and this is not the time to stutter or we'll leave ourselves too much to do chasing teams that win most weeks (assuming that we are hoping for automatics). We need a big response on Saturday and go on another run. These are winnable games and we absolutely have to be better than that pathetic effort. We are fast closing in on the business end of the season and a bad run now can quickly pull the rug from under you.

Deep breath, we go again, but 3 points is probably a must on Saturday. Lose or draw that and this starts to look like a traditional Derby stumble so dust yourselves down and get back on track lads.

[angieram]

1 hour ago, The Big One said:

For how terrible we were, I thought Reading were decent last night, god knows how they are bottom 3.  If they keep that core team together and no fire sales i think they will stay up.  Imagine they will be a force next season if rumoured Mike Ashley or GymShark buys them and some shrewd transfer business.

They have bought/brought in players with money they haven't got. Lots have been commenting on it on the transfer threads for months. 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's pure conjecture though, regardless of their respective records. The question is - is it worth gambling when we're 3 points off the top?

It's definitely too soon to smash the panic buttons. However, the way Warne sets the team up means we struggle when we're lacking squad depth - we saw it at the start of this season, we had it when we didn't rotate the squad as much as Warne would have liked last season, and we're seeing it now (6-8 players had been unavialble). It doesn't help that a significant number of signigns are injury prone or have a recent history of not playing much. 

Warne needs to trust the players on the fringes of his squad more (we said the same last season). There's no reason for players such as Ward to have just 30 minutes of football over a 4 week period when he's fully fit and other players are starting to struggle with fatigue a little bit. The use of players such as DBrown and DRobinson at the end of games needs to happen more frequently in periods when we do have a mini injury crisis as it helps keep the senior player fresher. More games for Brown earlier in the season would have meant he'd now feel comfortable playing more of a part now when we only have 1 fit forward. Instead we'll now have to rely on Collins playing full 90s or move Mendez-laing upfront and weaken ourselves on the wings.

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

32 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Out of interest. Do you think Warne enjoys being the manager of our football team?

I doubt it. He's got his own view on how he likes to manage a team and as noble as that is, it becomes harder to enforce and maintain when you try it with bigger clubs with more variables, more fans and higher expectations. 

[ap04]

10 minutes ago, Alty_Ram said:

that was an utterly dismal showing for which there can be no excuses. We didn't look average, we looked worse than that.

It wasn't, it was decent and absolutely true to form. We have been precisely a +2 chances/game side (on the verge of automatics or just below), facing are a +0 side (genuine mid-table), away (-2 chances swing), result: absolutely even game (4 or 5 chances apiece overall), which is exactly what happened. What on earth were people expecting?

It's the same as those popular "our form is stupendous" posts or those counting the goals saying we are evidently better than last year. Too much to expect football fans to see things logically without all sorts of biases kicking in.

[kevinhectoring]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Out of interest. Do you think Warne enjoys being the manager of our football team?

He loved it when he was first appointed. Now he’s not so sure 

imo 

[Gabby'sThighs]

I'm no tactician but this is how I see things, just to defend the players a bit:

Warne is clearly asking Vickers to pump it long or get it to the wingbacks. Cashin & Nelson are pumping the ball to the wingers or long to Collins (who always wants it on the deck). But they eff it up often because they're not Terry & Ferdinand.
There is a continual call for a sturdy DM, but it should be apparent by now that Warne feels that would be a waste of a player. Our wingbacks and wingers run down the touchline and when they lose the ball we're vulnerable on the counter-attack. Or if NML, Wilson, or Collins have an off-game, there's no other plan.
We have CMs who can play a bit but they're following orders - Hourihane sits far too deep to play to his strengths, he hasn't the pace or the tackling ability to cover the middle of the pitch, and Bird/Smith/Tommo is largely left chasing shadows, Sibley seems to be an annoyance to Warne and just gets put wherever. I'd try and shape Fornah into that no-nonsense DM, but maybe it's better to leave him out of the squad entirely, right?

The tactics have worked with Fozzy & Nyambe fit, when Wilson/Barks & NML are playing well, and if Collins can stand in the right place. (We are 4th, despite all of my complaints). If not, the team can collapse at any moment. But by and large, we've got the results - we're 4th, remember.

And I know it's irrational, but Sonny Bradley's presence fills me with rage. He was supposed to be the seasoned pro, all-action leader type, but he's such a wet blanket, and he seems to be in the squad because there's still a belief he'll step up, or to justify his wages. After the Bradford he talked about senior players being responsible for motivating the team - that's supposed to be you, you d*ckhead! He's 32, he's played nearly 500 professional games: if he can't perform now, it's not going to happen, and you can't baby him through a 50+ game season.

I hope we can stay in touch with the top 4, and I'm excited to go to Charlton away. I'm also not a sack the manager type but I'd boot Warne in the summer whether we go up or not. Our transfer focus has to shift (and is shifting?) from over 30s journeymen to under 27s with potential, and I think he's shown he can't create a balanced squad, still doesn't know his best XI, and can't or won't play players to their strengths. He has bizarre loyalty to Smith, Bradley, Vickers, and seems to have taken against Fornah, Wildsmith, Sibley, Brown, etc. Maybe he is the annoying, fickle office manager he comes across as.