The Paul Warne Poll

[Jourdan]

28 minutes ago, sage said:

The plan is a high tempo passing game getting us promoted and he keeps signing old slow players.

My plan to trim my beard with a blowtorch seems sensible in comparison. 

Is it that Warne is not being sensible, or is that the budget is the difference between getting what’s desirable and getting what’s attainable?

[i-Ram]

3 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I do when it suits me. 
Not sure my earlier response to you counts as fence sitting. You’ve clearly set your stall out in opposition to Warne, and are therefore assuming that other responses match your own view. I’m merely pointing out that there’s an assumption in your reasoning that you can’t determine. 
The timeline I opted for as to when it may be appropriate to review his position doesn’t determine whether I’m happy with the current performances. 

Other than the first paragraph, I have no idea what point or points you are trying to make. 

[i-Ram]

7 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

I said in my post what i voted for. You dont have to read the comments, you could just make yourself comfortable and watch the poll votes trickle in with a box of popcorn and a glass of port. 👍🏿

I think I will close my eyes buddy. Have a good shift.

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Other than the first paragraph, I have no idea what point or points you are trying to make. 

You said the poll shows that 50+% are unhappy with Warne’s progress to date. It doesn’t show that. That’s all.

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

 

The guy that gave Rosenior until October (?) might think we are intolerant ? 

Rosenior was only ever the interim manager. There was no promised fixed end date for a long term decision. David Clowes seemed to be on the verge of giving him the manager's post until the back-to-back defeats to Plymouth and Lincoln and what he saw turned him to Warne. Rosenior wasn't sacked, just not appointed to the permanent decision. I imagine that David Clowes would say his decision came after careful consideration.

That seemed reasonable at the time and I am not entering into a debate on Rosenior. I would have been happy for him to continue but Clowes made the decision, said promotion last season was not conditional and described the appointment as a long term project, giving Warne a four year contract.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I agree. Over the last 9 years I have often thought why bother posting/voting on here as it won’t make a jot of difference. I could have used my time better volunteering for The Samaritans.

And I would hope that the Samaritans would feel the same. But I would fear for any distressed Paul Warne fans who might call for your help. Perhaps you were better off staying on here 😂.

[sage]

22 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Is it negative if the performances have improved at that point? It’s pessimistic to say that’s the case. 
All I see those polls as evidencing is the tolerance levels of people’s patience. Some aren’t willing to wait and see, as is their right down to some well explained points of view (and some less so). Others are more willing to wait. Two of the five responses don’t show whether someone is in favour of Warne or not, just how much they’re willing to wait to fully decide that or to tolerate it at least. 

If you are happy you vote opting 5, option 4 if you have some confidence, option is I think this is rubbish but I live in hope.

I'm option 2. Maybe the width of a post from option 1.

[Caerphilly Ram]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

If you are happy you vote opting 5, option 4 if you have some confidence, option is I think this is rubbish but I live in hope.

I'm option 2. Maybe the width of a post from option 1.

And that’s the point I’m looking to make.

Option 1 is for people who are unhappy with Warne, that’s clear.

Option 2 is for people like yourself who are unhappy with Warne but not yet at the point you want him sacked, but probably pretty close to it.

Option 3 has no determined stance one way or another.

Option 4 has no determined stance one way or another.

Option 5 is most probable for the people who are pro-Warne, but even then it’s not definitive.

Options 3 to 5 could be used by people who are unhappy with Warne’s performance to date but still believe he deserves time, as much as people who don’t have a problem with his performance currently but think we’d need to see how the table looks at Christmas or the season end or whatever. There’s a grey area there that shouldn’t be assumed to be pro or anti Warne, I think it’s more objective to assume an expression of patience or tolerance or whatever rather than assuming it’s pro or anti Warne. 

[TomTom92]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

We’re only three points off top and there are 42 games to improve on that.

Our finances are tight while we are under the business plan.

Surely the time when Clowes will be looking to re-assess is when we are financially free and have no one to answer to?

So next season then…

This isn’t me actively calling for him to sell, but just can’t be bothered to be in league 1 for 4/5 seasons and have everyone be like ‘we’re grateful just to have a club’.

Feel like there’s a bit of mystery this season as to whether it’s the business plan or DC that’s keeping us on a leash.

[sage]

13 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

And that’s the point I’m looking to make.

Option 1 is for people who are unhappy with Warne, that’s clear.

Option 2 is for people like yourself who are unhappy with Warne but not yet at the point you want him sacked, but probably pretty close to it.

Option 3 has no determined stance one way or another.

Option 4 has no determined stance one way or another.

Option 5 is most probable for the people who are pro-Warne, but even then it’s not definitive.

Options 3 to 5 could be used by people who are unhappy with Warne’s performance to date but still believe he deserves time, as much as people who don’t have a problem with his performance currently but think we’d need to see how the table looks at Christmas or the season end or whatever. There’s a grey area there that shouldn’t be assumed to be pro or anti Warne, I think it’s more objective to assume an expression of patience or tolerance or whatever rather than assuming it’s pro or anti Warne. 

There is no way people who have no problem with his performance are voting option 3..

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 hour ago, sage said:

There is no way people who have no problem with his performance are voting option 3..

Disagree. I would say it's "I'm up in the air about him", and I don't think that means they hold a negative opinion of him.

I'm personally Option 2.

[brady1993]

I'd say I'm somewhere between 1 and 2 in actuality. But if I'm being coldly rational, with the caveat of im not considering the financial side of things, I think it's best for the club if we moved on. 

I just don't think he's demonstrated evidence that he's the right person to build the club towards sustainable success. And has showed quite a bit to the contrary. 

I think the key thing that's missed in a lot of this is keeping him isn't a neutral action even if results aren't catastrophic. The blunt truth is we've regressed in several areas since he's taken over and there is evidence a fair bit of this is down to his decisions in some areas or lack of action in others.. Some of this regression is already playing out and some of it will hit us in a couple years. 

I think the following is a likely scenario under Warne going forwards this season. Bird leaves, Cashin leaves (possibly Sibley too) and are replaced with short term fixes. Academy products are underdeveloped and potentially leave. One or more key players sustain major injuries due to inadequate fitness management. We end up finishing the season in the top 10 but quite likely outside of the playoffs.

So a season on, still in league 1 with a declining talent pool and an aging squad.

[brady1993]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Is it that Warne is not being sensible, or is that the budget is the difference between getting what’s desirable and getting what’s attainable?

But any way you look at it it's flawed. So you have a way of playing in mind:

1) Start by trying to sign players to fit that system, can add quality, hit the ground running and are good characters 

2) If that's not possible then you've got 4 reasonable options:

A) Hold off signings and promote from within 

B) Sign players who are more raw but can be developed into the idea you 

C) Flex around character 

D) Sign Good players who are available and re-shape tactically to what you can get 

Warne has chosen the worst of all worlds where he's rigidly sticking to a way of playing despite it not fitting what we had before and also signing players who don't fit that way of playing.

 

[jono]

I am bemused by it all. There is always competition but we are a club with aspirations given our heritage and size. We are or should be 1 level up. Instead of being promotion hopefuls in L1, our realistic (as opposed to fan biased wannabe )status is probably competitive Championship club.

The pre season home games showed development and class but as soon as we kicked off for real something fundamental seemed missing on the pitch. Now we have a trio of serious injuries and a lack of players. 
 

We don’t know what the market is like, we don’t know what DC wants to do (it won’t be splurging cash though) This was always meant to be a long term appointment. I loath this sack em every season guff. Unless relegation is on the cards I want him to stick around and see it through for this season and next 

[Caerphilly Ram]

6 hours ago, sage said:

There is no way people who have no problem with his performance are voting option 3..

Again, that’s your assumption. You don’t know what the thinking is of the people who’ve made the choice, you do know your own thinking and as you’re not happy with Warne, as you’ve made clear,  you have then attributed that same stance to other people’s decisions without their comment.

Some will share it, some won’t. They may have a problem with his performance, they may not, they may have a problem with his performance come Christmas, they may not. 
I realise there’s little point in my trying to argue for a little more objective thinking on the topic so will just concede. Whatever plays out we all essentially want the club’s success in the end, whether that’s with or without Paul Warne as the manager.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Caerphilly Ram

[FlyBritishMidland]

8 hours ago, IslandExile said:

Well the guy who took over kept them up.

Maybe Warne deserves some credit for that.  They were 8th on 14pts after 9 games when he left so he averaged around 1.5pts per game.  They finished 19th on 50pts gaining another 36pts over 37 games, less than 1pt per game.  Arguably, without Warne’s good start they would have gone down.

[BramcoteRam84]

10 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Stretton

Ok wasn’t sure if Liam or Warne sold him. Liked him but he hasn’t pulled up any trees in League 2 and I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but I also understand he’s not played much since as still struggling to stay fit and he’s now recently done his ACL. Clearly Warne isn’t psychic but in reality we wouldn’t have been able to call on him if he had stayed.

The other youngster I was thinking of was Cybulski, he clearly wasn’t at the required level. 

[Chester40]

I'm pro-Warne and voted 4. I considered voting 3, because if we go on a horrible run and are losing a lot of games at Xmas then I'd definitely be considering changing my stance.

I think at the end of the season is fair, and so does he. Because if we fail to make the playoffs then he is under real danger of being sacked. If at xmas we look like that's where we are heading then the urge to pull the plug and prevent that from happening will become strong.

[IlsonDerby]

I think the options should have included scenarios rather than timeframes. 
 

ie Warne in unless we have a run of 5 losses 

 

Warne in unless we have a run it 10 worrying results 

 

Warne out unless results and performances both pick up

Im option 2 but that’s because I know DC won’t get rid this soon which in a way I respect. It proves to me I’m not level headed enough to own a club because he must be despairing as much as a lot of us watching the tripe served up but Warne is his man. 

If I was the owner I’d have not gone for Warne in the first place (based on the players Rosenior brought in during last summer it had to be a manager who didn’t want the ball and grass to be strangers) but I’d have pressed the trap door when we finished outside of the play offs last year. 
 

I was a fresh slate for this season when it became aware he was going nowhere but the first 5 matches have given me no reason for optimism. 

[Ghost of Clough]

I started thinking of the pros to counter my many cons of Warne as manager. I struggled to get beyond 'signed some decent players for L1', but it got me thinking... If Rowett had this squad, there's not a doubt in my mind that he'd have us top 2 as his style of play would suit our squad (and Warne's signings) better than Warne's style.

When Warne came in, he claimed he was tactically flexible/adaptable. If that really was the case, he wouldn't play almost all of the players in the squad the same way as we have been seeing over the past 50 games under Warne.