In defence of Paul Warne.

[InstaRam]

12 minutes ago, jameso said:

I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect decent resale value on new signings. We’re talking about players on 2- (and even 1-) year deals whom we’ve brought in on a free. There’s only resale if they go before those terms are up. If, as it seems, we’re not paying fees, then bringing in players with high(er) resale value means picking up younger out-of-contract players but not so young that we have to pay compensation. (We’ve got one in Wilson though.) The club/Warne seems to have prioritised League 1 “hack” types who should enable us to get out of the division (in the right direction) regardless of their long-term asset value.

As for the signings themselves, none of them has started amazingly but I think they’ll all come good. Ward has looked best so far and I think Nelson has done ok too.

A 1/10 for White seems pretty harsh. I wouldn’t go much higher mind. (Springett was limited and then capped it off by getting injured!)

I agree, good comments all of the above and I understand the L1 hack approach. Accepts it's not easy for Warne but still would like to think we might been able to do something a little more clever maybe. Forgot Ward which i agree look really good early on.

White seemed to have some inverted Midas touch during his time here unfortunately. Probably a far better player than what we saw but his clumsy defending and missed hit deliveries I think must be labelled 1/10. He did cost us some very important points even though with help from some abysmal refereeing. 

[Brammie Steve]

Just for the record:-

I like Paul Warne.

I do not have to write his annual appraisal; I had to do enough of those at work.

 I like marmite but dislike lemon curd. Can’t tolerate 🦞!*
I am not in favour of chopping and changing managers nor do I think it fair to try to interfere with another person’s future by analysing every action they take. 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Thank you Rev for such a balanced post to initiate this topic.

*Can’t justify like and dislike. Lobster has an adverse effect on my system!

[eccles the ram]

 Warne is the sort of person who comes across as wanting to be a really good mate of anyone he meets. It's a good trait to have and I would love to have someone move in next door with his outgoingness. He is eloquent,friendly and,despite what some people say on here, cares about where this great club of ours needs to be. Perhaps his downfall to some fans is that the performances/results haven't been good so far. Time will tell. We have to stick with him and his staff. He will deliver when hopefully some more signings come through the door before the window closes. I believe he will take us up this season,albeit through the playoffs. We all need to stick together players,fans and management alike. Come May all this 'sack him now' nonsence will be forgotten. Could say a lot more on this subject but will revisit this later in the season. UTR!

 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, eccles the ram said:

 Warne is the sort of person who comes across as wanting to be a really good mate of anyone he meets. It's a good trait to have and I would love to have someone move in next door with his outgoingness. He is eloquent,friendly and,despite what some people say on here, cares about where this great club of ours needs to be.

Perhaps his downfall to some fans is that the performances/results haven't been good so far. Time will tell. We have to stick with him and his staff. He will deliver when hopefully some more signings come through the door before the window closes. I believe he will take us up this season,albeit through the playoffs. We all need to stick together players,fans and management alike. Come May all this 'sack him now' nonsence will be forgotten. Could say a lot more on this subject but will revisit this later in the season. UTR!

 

Exactly. But he is the manager, he is in charge and must accept the credit and the blame. He is not their mate.

[i-Ram]

2 minutes ago, eccles the ram said:

 Warne is the sort of person who comes across as wanting to be a really good mate of anyone he meets. It's a good trait to have and I would love to have someone move in next door with his outgoingness. 

I'd want a Council Tax rebate if he moved in next door to me.

[Srg]

My main cause for pause at the moment is that as silly as some of his interviews are, he does come across as genuine and I do like him. Then when i couple that with what he's said about actual footballing matters, such as high energy, pressing, the need to get younger and all the rest of it, which i agree with, I am on board fully.

The problem then arises when you look at what the team actually is, which is an old team of plodders who aren't actually pressing or high energy in the slightest. The moves we've made are, yes, slightly younger on the whole but nearly all defensive ones. Then he mentions about not being able to get attacking players better than we've got, and we're linked (yes, can't believe every link etc) with pretty much exclusively players over the age of 30... something just doesn't add up.

Collins was dropped last season for being useless, and we're meant to believe he's unable to sign anyone under 30 who would improve upon him? I just highly, highly, doubt that. Someone with pace who couldn't hit a barn door with a machine gun would actually improve this team for what we want to do.

In summary, he's said a lot I agree with but the actions haven't followed what he's said - whether you can take the transfer market excuse or whatever, it's irrelevant, the outcome is the same. 

It's a huge couple of weeks to end the transfer window because if we don't get what the squad needs, we won't achieve a thing we want to.

[May Contain Nuts]

11 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I do think the lack of pace at the back is a problem, but it was last season and didn’t cause us too many problems.

...except when we had a spate of conceding a ridiculous number of penalties, and very nearly conceding even more penalties, by constantly exposing a slow backline (and attacking midfielders as wing-backs) to one-on-ones in our own box and giving (crap) referees a decision to make. Playing 3 at the back.

I'm not sure if it's my imagination, but the rate of these incidents seemed to slow down once we went to a back 4.

[trappatoni]

I believe Warne should be given time - at least until Christmas - but I didn't and still don't  believe he's the right man and I'd be surprised if he gets us promoted.   Why give him time then - simply because we are where we are and I don't claim to be infallible - I hope he proves me wrong.  

 

First off lets forget the decent man stuff - 90% of us are decent men or women aren't we?  Being a decent man is not a qualification to manage a football team.   Is he likeable - I find him slightly annoying - all that family photos on the wall stuff or whatever he does to me would just be irrelevant BS. Not everyone is wired the same way - if I'm a player I want decent sessions, tactics that work and a manager that is straight up - if Warne provides them the rest is irrelevant.

 

For me the issues are:

- He seems wedded to his 532/352 Rotherham way of playing - he's dogmatic rather than pragmatic.   If you listen to the BBC podcast series on him he admits he's not really a tactical thinker.   I think he stumbled onto a system that worked to an extent at Rotherham and he can't now see beyond that.   Our best form last season was due to non Warne type players playing non Warne type football - it was was Rosenior's side with a dash more directness. 

- At Derby in div 1 we are going to have the ball a lot - at Rotherham he didn't.   Does Sonny Bradley look like a player comfortable being last man in possession ? 

- His transfer policy is short term.  These frees will be on biggish wages for div 1 and have no sell on value IF we can even move them on.   This squad is only getting weaker if we don't go up this year - anyone think Waghorn, Washington or Collins will be at Derby in 2 years? 

- I don't know what Clowes' budget is but we desperately need to start identifying younger talent and paying a fee with the thought we can recoup that and more in 2 years.   The issue is bigger teams won't want to buy players from a Warne style team - its certainly not a style that will attract decent fees for players. 

- Do good players want to play for Warne?  I honestly think it's a factor in McGoldrick leaving.  The guy is a footballer he doesn't want to be run into the ground. 

 

Longer term my real worry is that Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould.  We need an innovative forward thinking owner not just a saviour. 

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

I believe Warne should be given time - at least until Christmas - but I didn't and still don't  believe he's the right man and I'd be surprised if he gets us promoted.   Why give him time then - simply because we are where we are and I don't claim to be infallible - I hope he proves me wrong.  

First off lets forget the decent man stuff - 90% of us are decent men or women aren't we?  Being a decent man is not a qualification to manage a football team.   Is he likeable - I find him slightly annoying - all that family photos on the wall stuff or whatever he does to me would just be irrelevant BS. Not everyone is wired the same way - if I'm a player I want decent sessions, tactics that work and a manager that is straight up - if Warne provides them the rest is irrelevant.

For me the issues are:

- He seems wedded to his 532/352 Rotherham way of playing - he's dogmatic rather than pragmatic.   If you listen to the BBC podcast series on him he admits he's not really a tactical thinker.   I think he stumbled onto a system that worked to an extent at Rotherham and he can't now see beyond that.   Our best form last season was due to non Warne type players playing non Warne type football - it was was Rosenior's side with a dash more directness. 

- At Derby in div 1 we are going to have the ball a lot - at Rotherham he didn't.   Does Sonny Bradley look like a player comfortable being last man in possession ? 

- His transfer policy is short term.  These frees will be on biggish wages for div 1 and have no sell on value IF we can even move them on.   This squad is only getting weaker if we don't go up this year - anyone think Waghorn, Washington or Collins will be at Derby in 2 years? 

- I don't know what Clowes' budget is but we desperately need to start identifying younger talent and paying a fee with the thought we can recoup that and more in 2 years.   The issue is bigger teams won't want to buy players from a Warne style team - its certainly not a style that will attract decent fees for players. 

- Do good players want to play for Warne?  I honestly think it's a factor in McGoldrick leaving.  The guy is a footballer he doesn't want to be run into the ground. 

Longer term my real worry is that Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould.  We need an innovative forward thinking owner not just a saviour. 

Are you on the right thread? Little of that is a positive about Warne. I agree with almost all of it. I don't think DC is hankering after the 80s but that he saw Warne's record in League 1 and that he 'interviewed' well (lots of us do that! 😄 ). 

I wish he could have asked him if he'd just do this, as you said: "Our best form last season was due to non Warne type players playing non Warne type football - it was was Rosenior's side with a dash more directness."

Where's the fun of Barks and NML hammering down the wings gone? 

Edited August 10, 2023 by RoyMac5

[TomTom92]

12 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Paul Warne is clearly a good manager and when the opportunity to hire came up, it would’ve been difficult to turn him away. He’s a manager with a proven track record on a small budget and is an impressive character - he’s very assured on what he wants and I think that translates quite well. 

I think the problem is that football management is in itself an enigma so what works at one place doesn’t at another - you’re essentially trying to row a paddle boat in the ocean where any number of things can go in your favour or against you. I find it funny that so many people believe they have so much influence, but ultimately the best laid plans can go to wreck and ruin. Don’t get me wrong, some managers don’t help themselves, Warne hasn’t at times, but the biggest issue in his time at Derby has been situational football. Individual errors in critical situations have plauged his time here - he’s going to take some responsibility for that but it’s not fifa so he’s not controlling every player. Senior players have let themselves down, the important thing now is to try and get everything settled going into the next two league games. We’ve got two teams also yet to win a game - Oxford in particular seem to be in a little bit of a crisis after expected to go well this season. 

Exactly this. How many good managers have we appointed and its gone boobs up? Its all about timing and luck, see Forest and Cooper, when he eventually leaves there's no guarantee that he'll smash it anywhere else. 

Personally think there's been an overreaction this season. But I do take onboard that Blackpool first half was unacceptable and if you look at the downward momentum of last season, alarm bells will start ringing if things don't start going to plan. 

[i-Ram]

8 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

I believe Warne should be given time - at least until Christmas - but I didn't and still don't  believe he's the right man and I'd be surprised if he gets us promoted.   Why give him time then - simply because we are where we are and I don't claim to be infallible - I hope he proves me wrong.  

 

First off lets forget the decent man stuff - 90% of us are decent men or women aren't we?  Being a decent man is not a qualification to manage a football team.   Is he likeable - I find him slightly annoying - all that family photos on the wall stuff or whatever he does to me would just be irrelevant BS. Not everyone is wired the same way - if I'm a player I want decent sessions, tactics that work and a manager that is straight up - if Warne provides them the rest is irrelevant.

 

For me the issues are:

- He seems wedded to his 532/352 Rotherham way of playing - he's dogmatic rather than pragmatic.   If you listen to the BBC podcast series on him he admits he's not really a tactical thinker.   I think he stumbled onto a system that worked to an extent at Rotherham and he can't now see beyond that.   Our best form last season was due to non Warne type players playing non Warne type football - it was was Rosenior's side with a dash more directness. 

- At Derby in div 1 we are going to have the ball a lot - at Rotherham he didn't.   Does Sonny Bradley look like a player comfortable being last man in possession ? 

- His transfer policy is short term.  These frees will be on biggish wages for div 1 and have no sell on value IF we can even move them on.   This squad is only getting weaker if we don't go up this year - anyone think Waghorn, Washington or Collins will be at Derby in 2 years? 

- I don't know what Clowes' budget is but we desperately need to start identifying younger talent and paying a fee with the thought we can recoup that and more in 2 years.   The issue is bigger teams won't want to buy players from a Warne style team - its certainly not a style that will attract decent fees for players. 

- Do good players want to play for Warne?  I honestly think it's a factor in McGoldrick leaving.  The guy is a footballer he doesn't want to be run into the ground. 

 

Longer term my real worry is that Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould.  We need an innovative forward thinking owner not just a saviour. 

I think there are some good points here, validating those of similar rational posters on this board.  I think Clowes made a mistake too, time will tell, but why do think Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould?  Thats quite a leap.

[DiggerB]

11 minutes ago, trappatoni said:

Longer term my real worry is that Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould.  We need an innovative forward thinking owner not just a saviour

Incredible take this!

[May Contain Nuts]

And then I go and spoil it all
By saying something stupid like "Longer term my real worry is that Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould.  We need an innovative forward thinking owner not just a saviour"

[FindernRam]

So a defence(?) of PW turns into a swipe at DC.

I just can't anymore of this tripe!

[vonwright]

He might get us promoted. He has a track record of doing so. The issue for me is that this team appears to be at best about half of what I imagine a Warne team to be. Underwhelmed by the signings so far and the midfield and attack seem completely wrong for a Warne team, and arguably for any team that wants to score goals and win games. 

Will see what the rest of the window brings but the noises coming from the club are not encouraging. 

[superfit]

1 hour ago, trappatoni said:

I believe Warne should be given time - at least until Christmas - but I didn't and still don't  believe he's the right man and I'd be surprised if he gets us promoted.   Why give him time then - simply because we are where we are and I don't claim to be infallible - I hope he proves me wrong.  

 

First off lets forget the decent man stuff - 90% of us are decent men or women aren't we?  Being a decent man is not a qualification to manage a football team.   Is he likeable - I find him slightly annoying - all that family photos on the wall stuff or whatever he does to me would just be irrelevant BS. Not everyone is wired the same way - if I'm a player I want decent sessions, tactics that work and a manager that is straight up - if Warne provides them the rest is irrelevant.

 

For me the issues are:

- He seems wedded to his 532/352 Rotherham way of playing - he's dogmatic rather than pragmatic.   If you listen to the BBC podcast series on him he admits he's not really a tactical thinker.   I think he stumbled onto a system that worked to an extent at Rotherham and he can't now see beyond that.   Our best form last season was due to non Warne type players playing non Warne type football - it was was Rosenior's side with a dash more directness. 

- At Derby in div 1 we are going to have the ball a lot - at Rotherham he didn't.   Does Sonny Bradley look like a player comfortable being last man in possession ? 

- His transfer policy is short term.  These frees will be on biggish wages for div 1 and have no sell on value IF we can even move them on.   This squad is only getting weaker if we don't go up this year - anyone think Waghorn, Washington or Collins will be at Derby in 2 years? 

- I don't know what Clowes' budget is but we desperately need to start identifying younger talent and paying a fee with the thought we can recoup that and more in 2 years.   The issue is bigger teams won't want to buy players from a Warne style team - its certainly not a style that will attract decent fees for players. 

- Do good players want to play for Warne?  I honestly think it's a factor in McGoldrick leaving.  The guy is a footballer he doesn't want to be run into the ground. 

 

Longer term my real worry is that Clowes is a footballing dinosaur hankering after the 80s and he's going to keep appointing managers in the same mould.  We need an innovative forward thinking owner not just a saviour. 

Brilliant post up to the point about ‘Clowes being a being a dinosaur hankering after the 80’s’ but agree on everything else. 
 

Only Clowes knows why Warne was his first choice but I imagine the fact that Warne has 3 promotions from L1 without spending big amounts would have played a big part in his thinking. 
 

On the subject of Clowes although there could have been some pull of the heart strings I believe he purchased the club because the numbers stacked up and he will be hoping to exit at some point with some profit, and rightly so. I think he’s a safe pair of hands but he’s not going to put much, or anymore of his family’s money into the club, again that’s his right. 
 

Therefore it made perfect sense to appoint Warne. We need promotion sooner than later and we don’t have too much money to spend. Certainly not as much as Ipswich and Plymouth last year. However I believe Clowes that our budget is competitive and enough to mount a strong challenge. 
 

I’m not ITK but was told by someone very reliable that our budget is £2m. This includes transfer fees and agents fees. The money from Birmingham for Bielk went to Arsenal. I have no idea about the fee for Knight but I believe it’s been mentioned here that it went towards running costs. That’s probably more than any other L1 club and definitely in Clowes mind, competitive. 

I’m not a Warne fan.  I really don’t like his football but don’t want him sacked. We’re too committed now and can’t go back to square one. However, I would prefer Warne to stop making out he’s taking responsibility when he’s not.
 

Taking responsibility is by stating he’s the manager, he picks the team, he chooses the tactics so the buck stops with him. However, he’s going to continue to work hard and will get it right and ask the supporters to stick with the team. He should be shielding the players, especially the youngsters. That’s taking responsibility and acting like a proper manager. 
 

All this I would have started the booing myself and perhaps I didn’t get my instructions out to the players and perhaps I didn’t make the substitution's early enough isn’t taking responsibility. It’s saying the players let me down and that they can’t take instructions and I should have hauled some of them off earlier. Not my fault. 
 

As for throwing some of the younger players under the bus for not trying and that’s exactly what he was saying is a new low. As for his footballing philosophy, it’s a bit late for that. 
 

[S8TY]

9 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I'd want a Council Tax rebate if he moved in next door to me.

I'm sure Warne would feel the same living next door to you lol

[i-Ram]

10 minutes ago, S8TY said:

I'm sure Warne would feel the same living next door to you lol

He couldn’t afford to live next to me.

[Marriot Ram99]

22 hours ago, Rev said:

I like Paul Warne and his staff, as people. 

 

From what I can tell, they're a decent, honest and principled bunch. 

 

I believe that's what attracted David Clowes to them in the first instance, alongside their record of success in League One. 

 

I'll also add that they saw those principles reflected in David Clowes, hence their decision to come on board.

 

From the start it was referenced by all parties the entire ethos of the club needed changing, and rebuilding work was needed from top to bottom, which is not the work of a moment, or indeed a few months. 

 

The backroom staff had been hollowed out to the bare minimum, across multiple departments. 

 

A review of the remaining staff saw several leave, and a new round of recruitment has taken place, building the club back up to operating strength across the board, from the casual staff,offices and the football support and academy roles, a process that is still ongoing.

 

That's not a normal issue that an incoming manager has to grapple with, rebuilding the back room to what it should be, while ensuring his requirements are met. We've seen a level of churn across the Academy management in that time, which must have demanded Warnes attention at various stages, in addition to the normal commitments management brings.

 

We've an owner learning about operating a football club, having taken over in sheer desperation, leaning on the manager he's appointed I presume, there seems to be no other football experts within his team we know of.

 

None of this is normal for a first team football manager, especially in his first job away from a much smaller club with different expectations, so mistakes and stumbles will inevitably happen. 

 

We got close enough last season that there were few grumbles about his position, yet after only two games, one in the league, there's a sizable minority calling for change, and a notable shift in how he's perceived. 

 

I'm not a natural defender of Warne, but will stand up for his work so far.

 

 I'm a self confessed football snob, and don't see him as the man to lead us back to the promised land of the Premier League, probably based around pre conceptions of his football philosophy rather than any evidence, but he's Clowes choice to launch that journey, and some of the criticism on here recently is well out of kilter with the job he's done so far.

 

7th place in a league with about 9 decent sides is hardly a good achievement, it's the absolute bare minimum of what is acceptable for this club. Without the performances of Mcgoldrick and Mendez Lairg mid season we would have been no better off than the likes of Fleetwood and Shrewsbury on very small budgets last season wasn't awful but he hardly deserves a slap on the back for it. This season the aim is promotion and its not the results that have been the worry It's the manner of performances, s**** football and lack of pragmatism with what we have available players wise.

[S8TY]

Anyone seriously having a pop at MR Clowes needs to look at themselves!!

This man saved the club, he didn't want to go out on a limb into a new uknown territory of being a football club owner but he did....and I will always be grateful for his intervention.

He's been honest from the outset and said he can't pump lots of money into the club but it will be run sustainably 

I'd go even further to say i would bet my house on it our club has never been so well run financially and I'll also wager our books look good, so much so the EFL loossened the shackles a bit, not totally but a bit ...

So we are balancing the books , trying to get the academy back on track after it was shamefully dismembered and trying to build a team with no transfer fees involved and keep in line with the EFL !!

This is no easy task but 30,000 Rams fans want success and want us out of this crap league and I'm one of them but for pities sake, lets get behind what is happening and acknowledge there will be bumps along the way.

Who knows if PW will be the success we all crave , but he is honest and giving it his best , as is Mr Clowes

Next season will be very different I assume with us being a bit more free to buy a player or two, but please  DO NOT give David Clowes stick on here because what he done I will always remember!

I don't care if he hires another couple of managers and doesnt or maybe doesnt get it right because Derby County lives on and thats all that matters, but what i do know is whether it takes longer than we anticipate or MR Clowes has to sell the club to someone who can inject some much needed money he deserves respect for saving our great club.

So even if you think he's made an error in appointing PW we simply would'nt have even had a club to whine about if it wasn't for  Mr Clowes , it doesn't stop all of us having an opinion on his decisions but he comes across as a thoroughly decent man and is a proper fan, so lets reel it in a bit eh with some of the critical swipes at him please, he's not perfect as none of us are !