In defence of Paul Warne.

[i-Ram]

Paul Warne needs to start winning football matches. In particular he needs to start winning football matches against decent teams - the stats I believe indicate he is yet to beat a team in the top 10 in the league when we played them since he has been at Derby. Can someone check/confirm? The evidence to date suggests that a large number of L1 Managers can see and exploit the weaknesses in his game plans and tactics. Nobody should be needing to defend him on here. He needs to raise his game, and in my opinion be far less chippy until he starts winning. He should also stop making vague accusations to the press about his playing staff.

I DONT WANT HIM SACKED. I do want him showing very soon that he is competent to do his job. That’s his best defence.

[Jubbs]

2 hours ago, littleover ram said:

turning up mid season,

He joined 9 games into the league season, that's not "mid season"

Edited August 9, 2023 by Jubbs

[Ambitious]

5 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

What frustrates me is that we have now kicked off the season and as a squad we don't seem much stronger than last season.

We've brought in a load of defensive players but what we actually needed to strengthen was the midfield and the top end of the pitch.

We needed to bring in creativity, pace, goalscorers and we simply have not done it. We have lost two good players in McGoldrick and Knight and have not replaced them.

Clowes said that Warne has been given a budget which is better than our rivals and one that he thinks is good enough to get us out of this league. So there are little excuses.

We needed players all over the pitch, to be fair. Cashin and Forsyth was left as our only senior defenders. We’re still 2 short (defenders) for my money. I do think the lack of pace at the back is a problem, but it was last season and didn’t cause us too many problems. Knight was obviously a good player, but feel like you don’t really miss what he gave us last season. I’d feel similarly to Bird. You don’t want them to go, of course, but at the same time they were/are part of the problem. When I look at the midfield I just feel like we should be getting more, I don’t think any of them are necessarily bad players at this level but they’re not exactly producing much of a tangible output. 

The budget is a cause of contention, because if it was so thin then we should’ve really leaned on the recruitment staff a little more - looked at non-league players, tried to find a couple diamonds in the rough rather than going cap-in-hand to players released by Championship clubs. The transfer approach adapted by ourselves is most certainly different to Barnsley and Bolton who are expected to be up there - in fact there is no other team in League One who followed our approach.

[maxjam]

Well said @Rev

We're still under EFL restrictions and we're still turning the ship around.  Its gonna take time and there are gonna be ups and downs along the way. 

I think both David Clowes and Paul Warne (and his staff) are honourable men and will get it right if given enough time, some of the comments I've read on the forums this week have been borderline delusional. 

It's sad that modern day society demands instant success whilst conveniently ignoring where we've come from and the strides we've made.  Yeah recent results and performances haven't been great - and no one knows that more than Warne himself, but turning on the manager and booing the players 135 minutes into a season isn't helping. 

Warne's said we need players in, the transfer window is still open and they are working around the clock to bring the right people in - our squad may look a lot different in a few weeks time.  Whether we can afford the players we want/need however is another matter, beyond Clowes/Warnes control and a legacy of Mel Morris tenure and the EFL. 

Sacking a proven manager at this level not even a year into a 4 year deal, whilst we're still hamstrung by the EFL would set alarm bells off imho - shades of Mel Morris hiring and firing culture.  Paul Warne has been bought into a club on its knees, tasked with rebuilding it from top to bottom and getting us promotion.  Whilst we would all like the progress graph to be a nice, smooth upward curve, real life is rarely that simple.  A kneejerk reaction from the club now would set us back further than we already are.

COYR

[HectorsHouse]

On reflection only one of the goals four goals conceded could have been prevented by better positional play/ coaching

Mistake 1 - Howler by Bradley with an off balance backpass

Mistake 2 - Error/Misjudgement by Wildsmith

Mistake 3 - Elder not hearing LOUD shout from Vickers

Which leaves the one goal last night that had 3 centre backs in touching distance of the scorer who all failed to deal with the situation.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Paul Warne needs to start winning football matches. In particular he needs to start winning football matches against decent teams - the stats I believe indicate he is yet to beat a team in the top 10 in the league when we played them since he has been at Derby. Can someone check/confirm?

We beat Bolton 2-0 at home in January when both teams were in the top six.

[valakari]

I thought we beat Barnsley twice last season ( once in the cup)...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Nobody should be needing to defend him on here.

If someone feels the need to defend him, it's their right to do so and also fair to the subject in question. Rev's post is exceptional, considered and well balanced in my opinion. Don't feel aggrieved; I feel sure that he will return to you any of the nails he has removed from your cross. 😉😆.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, valakari said:

I thought we beat Barnsley twice last season ( once in the cup)...

We did; 2-1 in the EFL under Rosenior and 3-0 in the FA Cup under Warne.

[Van der MoodHoover]

8 hours ago, Ambitious said:

We’ve got two teams also yet to win a game - Oxford in particular seem to be in a little bit of a crisis after expected to go well this season. 

Uh-oh........

[InstaRam]

First of all, I am still with Warne and think we all must give him more time and support but I can also see why a fair few fellow supporters are getting a bit worried with our overall direction as a club:

Signings: None of the new additions looks like good business at the moment except maybe Vickers. I think many hoped for Warne et.al to identify a bit more unkown up and coming players in a different age group after last seasons interview. The players signed doesn't really bring to much re-sell value and when they also under perform well that's a concern. Last years loans of White and Springett turned out to be 1/10 unfortunately. 

Tactics: It's been quite hard to understand how Derby County under Warne are supposed to be playing. Last season was a bit like give the ball to McGoldrick and hope for something to happen. This season has started, at least to me, a bit like the same but without McGoldrick. I do not claim to be a football manager in any way but it's been hard to see what we try to execute on the pitch in terms of passing patterns, team pressure, recapture and possession etc. For some reason our players seem unable to perform as a TEAM on the pitch which surprise me a lot from a Warne team. 

Comments: I am a bit worried regarding the perceived differences between Warnes comments and actual outcomes so far. Type of signings as stated above, the talk about great characters who doesn't show up for the teams second game a Tuesday in August and the talk of endeavour and commitment from the team not really showing on the pitch. A hard-trained team that seems to run out steam well before the opposition.

Player development: A main concern is the lack of player development under Warne. This is hard to evaluate since he only has been here for a season but how many players (except McGoldrick) actually developed under Warne. Sibley, Bird, Knight (sold now) and Cashin do not seem to have taken any major development steps during that first year. At least it's not showing yet. 

Results: You could live with all of the above if results would have been good but when the results are mediocre to bad then we seem to have some serious problems. 

I truly hope Warne and his team can turn this around because they seem to be honest hard working genuine  good people. And I think results are the minor problem if they could hit correct on signings and tactics all could turn upwards in a heartbeat. We have lashed ourselves at the mast with Warne so now I see it as the only constructive thing to support him and say a silent prayer to Lady Fortuna that he gets things right soon.

[Brammie Steve]

8 hours ago, sage said:

Any evidence of this?

He never tries to make excuses or blame everyone else down to the cleaner’s 🐈‍⬛ 

His is a steep learning curve and the evidence should be clear before Christmas!

[Tamworthram]

13 minutes ago, Brammie Steve said:

He never tries to make excuses or blame everyone else down to the cleaner’s 🐈‍⬛ 

His is a steep learning curve and the evidence should be clear before Christmas!

Genuine question and I am firmly NOT in the Warne out camp at the moment but why such a steep learning curve? Aren’t the fundamentals of his job pretty much unchanged? Wasn’t that part of the rationale for going for an experienced manager who’s done it before? Even coping with set backs should be in his locker to an extent given the relegations he’s faced? It’s just different personnel.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Tamworthram

[sage]

13 minutes ago, Brammie Steve said:

He never tries to make excuses or blame everyone else down to the cleaner’s 🐈‍⬛ 

His is a steep learning curve and the evidence should be clear before Christmas!

How is that a response to 'does he learn from mistakes'?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

We beat Bolton 2-0 at home in January when both teams were in the top six.

You must have left before Sadlier’s consolation goal 😜

(Either that or you correctly judged that the ball had actually gone out before it was crossed to him)

[RoyMac5]

9 hours ago, sage said:

Any evidence of this?

Not until he tells us what his mistakes were, not just that we lost! 😄 

 

[i-Ram]

7 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

We beat Bolton 2-0 at home in January when both teams were in the top six.

Thank you my friend. I was uncertain, but on the basis of the responses it seems we have beaten only one team in the League since Warne arrived last September who might be considered a broad peer comparable (e.g. top ten in L1). Warne might want to write that fact on his ‘why’ board. In fact I would propose he writes it large on his ‘why’ mirror.

[Birdyabroad]

Apologies if this point has already been made but, from my limited knowledge, it seems that there has been commitment from the manager and chairman to breathe new life into the academy set-up.

Players who were not going to make it (for us) have been moved on and new players, from big clubs such as Rangers and Spurs (I think) have come in.

There has also been significant changes made to coaching staff and, whilst I don’t know if this has made the set-up stronger, they have clearly looked at things and done what they feel is for the best. I’m hoping, for example, that this former Southampton academy guy can work some magic, as the cupboard at U18 and U21 level was left fairly bare after administration.

The only reason I raise this is because some seem to be raising the point that we’ve invested in old-timers this season, but maybe (hopefully) things are happening at academy level that may see some fruit in the near future.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, InstaRam said:

First of all, I am still with Warne and think we all must give him more time and support but I can also see why a fair few fellow supporters are getting a bit worried with our overall direction as a club:

Signings: None of the new additions looks like good business at the moment except maybe Vickers. I think many hoped for Warne et.al to identify a bit more unkown up and coming players in a different age group after last seasons interview. The players signed doesn't really bring to much re-sell value and when they also under perform well that's a concern. Last years loans of White and Springett turned out to be 1/10 unfortunately. 

Tactics: It's been quite hard to understand how Derby County under Warne are supposed to be playing. Last season was a bit like give the ball to McGoldrick and hope for something to happen. This season has started, at least to me, a bit like the same but without McGoldrick. I do not claim to be a football manager in any way but it's been hard to see what we try to execute on the pitch in terms of passing patterns, team pressure, recapture and possession etc. For some reason our players seem unable to perform as a TEAM on the pitch which surprise me a lot from a Warne team. 

Comments: I am a bit worried regarding the perceived differences between Warnes comments and actual outcomes so far. Type of signings as stated above, the talk about great characters who doesn't show up for the teams second game a Tuesday in August and the talk of endeavour and commitment from the team not really showing on the pitch. A hard-trained team that seems to run out steam well before the opposition.

Player development: A main concern is the lack of player development under Warne. This is hard to evaluate since he only has been here for a season but how many players (except McGoldrick) actually developed under Warne. Sibley, Bird, Knight (sold now) and Cashin do not seem to have taken any major development steps during that first year. At least it's not showing yet. 

Results: You could live with all of the above if results would have been good but when the results are mediocre to bad then we seem to have some serious problems. 

I truly hope Warne and his team can turn this around because they seem to be honest hard working genuine  good people. And I think results are the minor problem if they could hit correct on signings and tactics all could turn upwards in a heartbeat. We have lashed ourselves at the mast with Warne so now I see it as the only constructive thing to support him and say a silent prayer to Lady Fortuna that he gets things right soon.

I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect decent resale value on new signings. We’re talking about players on 2- (and even 1-) year deals whom we’ve brought in on a free. There’s only resale if they go before those terms are up. If, as it seems, we’re not paying fees, then bringing in players with high(er) resale value means picking up younger out-of-contract players but not so young that we have to pay compensation. (We’ve got one in Wilson though.) The club/Warne seems to have prioritised League 1 “hack” types who should enable us to get out of the division (in the right direction) regardless of their long-term asset value.

As for the signings themselves, none of them has started amazingly but I think they’ll all come good. Ward has looked best so far and I think Nelson has done ok too.

A 1/10 for White seems pretty harsh. I wouldn’t go much higher mind. (Springett was limited and then capped it off by getting injured!)

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, jameso said:

You must have left before Sadlier’s consolation goal 😜

(Either that or you correctly judged that the ball had actually gone out before it was crossed to him)

Recall it now 👍