Have Derby County been treated unfairly by the EFL

[B4ev6is]

1 minute ago, Ram@Lincoln said:

Thing is this never happened.

Bird's last tweet of any kind including retweeting was 2nd October of his assist for Collins 2nd goal at Cambridge. Davies did tweet yesterday, however this was promoting the charity bingo with him joking he'll replace Bradley Walsh as a quiz host. 

Unless it was a joke but I saw in on twitter.

[B4ev6is]

4 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

At the risk of being shot down I’m going to play devils advocate regarding the amortisation issue.  How we applied it is within accounting rules but there were no EFL rules as to how it should be done.  However, in a contract there are explicit and implicit terms.  The EFL, and paraphrasing them they are a body of all 72 member clubs, would argue that straight-line amortisation is implicit as it’s custom and practice within the industry.  They’d also argue that this have is an advantage over the other 71 clubs.  From that perspective you could argue they were right to pursue the case against us.

However, did they need to be so tough, arguably not.  Why did they approve our approach the first place?  Did they confirm to the other 71 clubs that we were choosing to use another legal methodology and inform them they could do the same?  A regulators role is to ensure equality and a fair approach across it’s industry, did they do this in a timely manner?

We all know the answer to these questions and ultimately they failed as a regulator way ahead of 2019.  The thing is, Gibson knew this, hence his “you go for them or I go for you ultimatum”.  And Mel ruffled there feathers far too much far too often.  He picked a fight from day 1.  In a regulated industry you never do that.  You may may not like the rules, but you don’t blame them.  Comply, meet the criteria, then suggest an improvement from a position of strength.  If Mel had had this approach, we may have received a slap on the wrist.  In the documentary on Al-Jazzeera (?) he basically admitted the EFL didn’t like him and that is why we are where we are.

No it is that hate us and we hate them.

[Ram@Lincoln]

3 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Unless it was a joke but I saw in on twitter.

The age old "don't believe everything you read on the internet". Also if any signs are being held up, photo editing is very easy...

[B4ev6is]

1 minute ago, Ram@Lincoln said:

The age old "don't believe everything you read on the internet". Also if any signs are being held up, photo editing is very easy...

It still made me laugh through

[RAM1966]

3 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

At the risk of being shot down I’m going to play devils advocate regarding the amortisation issue.  How we applied it is within accounting rules but there were no EFL rules as to how it should be done.  However, in a contract there are explicit and implicit terms.  The EFL, and paraphrasing them they are a body of all 72 member clubs, would argue that straight-line amortisation is implicit as it’s custom and practice within the industry.  They’d also argue that this have is an advantage over the other 71 clubs.  From that perspective you could argue they were right to pursue the case against us.

The point is there was a loop hole and clubs have been exploiting them until the EFL spotted and has closed them.  What's different in out case, is that a retrospective rule change was made after Admin accepted a punishment with no right of appeal.  They closed the loop on the straight line amortisation method, which means we did not break the rules, so how can we be punished? Not only that, they then relaxed the rules for covid reasons to help out other clubs, who may have been deducted points, could reading have fallen into this category for further points deductions?  Could we of stayed up had they not done this?

3 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

However, did they need to be so tough, arguably not.  Why did they approve our approach the first place?  Did they confirm to the other 71 clubs that we were choosing to use another legal methodology and inform them they could do the same?  A regulators role is to ensure equality and a fair approach across it’s industry, did they do this in a timely manner?

I agree with this, but, its also a regulators role to spot things that are going wrong in a timely manner, the EFL failed.  Rumour has it the EFL sanctioned the amortisation method we were using then changed their mind when Gibson threatened to sue the EFL!  They were too slow to act or we would of only had 1 seasons accounts to resubmit not 3 which compounded our issues!

3 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

We all know the answer to these questions and ultimately they failed as a regulator way ahead of 2019.  The thing is, Gibson knew this, hence his “you go for them or I go for you ultimatum”.  And Mel ruffled there feathers far too much far too often.  He picked a fight from day 1.  In a regulated industry you never do that.  You may may not like the rules, but you don’t blame them.  Comply, meet the criteria, then suggest an improvement from a position of strength.  If Mel had had this approach, we may have received a slap on the wrist.  In the documentary on Al-Jazzeera (?) he basically admitted the EFL didn’t like him and that is why we are where we are.

The long and short of it Morris was far too cocky for his own good, he had the upper hand up to the point that we went into Admin which handed all the cards to the EFL.   Who threatened to keep us in Admin until we accepted a dam good thrashing.

Thankfully we still have a football club, that said though there needs to be an independent inquiry into the corrupt way that the EFL conducts its business.   The rule book needs to be tightened up to stop loop holes being exploited by some clubs, while others are absolutely hammered.

I'm grateful that we still have a football club and cannot thank David Clowes enough for his gift to the the people of Derby, his charitable act (Saving an insolvent business), which should not be forgotten, and in my view is worthy of an OBE for services to Football and the worldwide supporters of DCFC.  Lets petition our MPs to make this happen. 

Thank you David, your act of kindness will never be forgotten, we should name the North Stand after you, where you used to sit!

Edited February 2, 2023 by RAM1966

[ram59]

Maybe the EFL will close the loophole whereby owners of clubs can not only not have an interest other English clubs, but also any other clubs under FIFA jurisdiction. Maybe then clubs like the red dogs, Watford and Wolves will get punished for doing things that were legal at the time?

[kevinhectoring]

On 01/02/2023 at 21:33, plymouthram said:

The only bug I have with the EFL, was when Muddlesboro and a gobby yank from Wycombe were trying to claim loss of monies for one, not making the play-offs and the other getting relegated because we were not deducted points in 2 different seasons for allegedly wrong doing.  It was down to the EFL to deduct us points in 2 separate seasons for any wrong doing, but they backed them on the arguement.

The EFl certainly didn’t back Boro and Wycombe. But they failed to stop Gibson and Couhig from shamelessly and cynically exploiting the situation we were in 

[B4ev6is]

1 hour ago, kevinhectoring said:

The EFl certainly didn’t back Boro and Wycombe. But they failed to stop Gibson and Couhig from shamelessly and cynically exploiting the situation we were in 

Sorry I have to disagree with some of this mate efl had in for us and clearly they took boro and wycombe side and did not want even want to help were they could have done. All they had to say to wycombe and boro and owner gibson and cougthin to back off and say we are dealing with derby and owner mel. And they continued your clubs will be punished too the only reason they did not do this because banker gibson threatened to sue them.

No other club been treated like this and I still think it is wrong even now clows has done a good job by sorting out the mess and debt but I think clows is still trying pay companies that missed out behind closed door and maybe offerd to give cut of promation money and hopeful it might clear the rest.

And me truly grateful toward clows we saved the club and me with out I dont know were I would be today I have to admit my own mentally health took a battering I was struggling at the time.

Once thank you clows

 

[jimtastic56]

10 hours ago, ram59 said:

Maybe the EFL will close the loophole whereby owners of clubs can not only not have an interest other English clubs, but also any other clubs under FIFA jurisdiction. Maybe then clubs like the red dogs, Watford and Wolves will get punished for doing things that were legal at the time?

Don’t forget Man City - They have stakes in Eleven other clubs . FIFA backed down when City brought the Solicitors in. Anyone wanting to bring the big clubs to heel will need very deep pockets.

[MadAmster]

20 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

IMHO we were caught by the fact Mel Morris pissed too many people off. 

Which is exactly what I wrote. (y)

 

[DavesaRam]

18 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

It was a statement of fact. There was no rule. Plus a catch all statement has no basis in law when I did my exams. 
Whether either Mr Clowes or Mr Morris want to take it further is a matter for them whatever any of us think 

Oh I really, really hope that they do!

[DavesaRam]

16 hours ago, Beetle said:

I believe we were badly treated but the fact of the matter is if Mr Morris had not put us administration we would still be in the Championship and not needing to adhere to a business plan.

The fact that we owed £25m in tax when the country needs it the most and Mr Morris still has many more millions of pounds is incomprehensible to me. He has tarnished the name of the club which, despite giving me some wonderful footballing memories, is unforgivable.

However re the tax which the country needs: when the Government can spend £32 billion on a Test and Trace system which never worked, write off £42 billion of furlough fraud and a similar amount for PPE fraud, all of which being recoverable should the Government want to, then the odd £25 million owed by Derby is not that big a figure.

I think the worst thing was all those local companies who lost out because of the mess we got into.

Edited February 3, 2023 by DavesaRam

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

11 hours ago, kevinhectoring said:

The EFl certainly didn’t back Boro and Wycombe. But they failed to stop Gibson and Couhig from shamelessly and cynically exploiting the situation we were in 

Pretty sure there was agreed legislation that one EFL club was not allowed to take legal action against another outside their own arbitration.  Effectively, they did then side with these other clubs.  At any pint they could have threatened Boro and Wycombes  membership like they did with us on a bi monthly basis .  They could even have insisted that as part of any legislation Boro had to include Villa in any action.  Gibson, schoolyard bully that is, would never have gone for this as they would have pushed it to court.  They've set a precedent know and at some point their vindictiveness will take a huge bite from their arse.  Should start with these additional covid losses.  Would for example Stoke and Bristol City have the squads they currently have without rule change.  If they don't get relegated, should be fun and games in the summer as those that do start ripping apart the legislation.  We should ring Reading and join in. 

[Jackal]

19 hours ago, Phoenix said:

The bit that caught my eye was in the Mail, about the Nigerian Billionaire stepping in to save Shef Utd. I'm always wary of the emails I get from Nigerian Billionaires.

I thought exactly the same when I read about that. I've also read today that Morecambe are being bought out by a 20 year old! 

[i-Ram]

[BramcoteRam84]

On 02/02/2023 at 10:42, MadAmster said:

A 2 year business plan is an EFL requirement for all clubs coming out of Administration. The EFL has a sort of skeleton, the club puts the meat on the bones and then it's down to the EFL whether they accept the plan or ask for amendments. To the best of my knowledge, DCFC's plan was accepted first time. They didn't write it, we did.

Was probably wrong in saying the only reason for the business plan is restricting our ability to compete, clearly they want us to demonstrate we can run properly and pay the bills, but it’s as much about restricting our ability to compete as ensuring we’re run sustainably. The skeleton plan as you say is probably what has the stipulations of no transfer fees or loan fees and wage caps the Derby bit is stating what the budget is and how they will meet it.

Parry bangs on about the integrity of the league. Clubs won’t want a Leicester where they wipe their debts through administration and then assemble a team that got promoted, my argument is with the FFP war against us plus the administration points penalty, not allowing us to pay loan or transfer fees on top is disproportionate. Integrity of the league has already been achieved through relegating Derby into a league they shouldn’t be in, history tells us that.

[B4ev6is]

4 hours ago, DavesaRam said:

However re the tax which the country needs: when the Government can spend £32 billion on a Test and Trace system which never worked, write off £42 billion of furlough fraud and a similar amount for PPE fraud, all of which being recoverable should the Government want to, then the odd £25 million owed by Derby is not that big a figure.

I think the worst thing was all those local companies who lost out because of the mess we got into.

I think clows is paying them behind close doors what he can right now.

[Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Jackal said:

I thought exactly the same when I read about that. I've also read today that Morecambe are being bought out by a 20 year old! 

Not one of the Oyston dynasty is it? Same neck of the woods.

[Jackal]

16 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

Not one of the Oyston dynasty is it? Same neck of the woods.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64510603

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, B4ev6is said:

I think clows is paying them behind close doors what he can right now.

I very much doubt it. Whilst DC seems like a top man, he’s also a business man and I wouldn’t think he is paying creditors anymore than was agreed in exiting administration.