The Administration Thread

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, BoroWill said:

You are asking a question you know that I can't answer.

Like me asking you why Mel Morris decided to use a different amortisation method to every other club in the country? You don't know, because you are not him.

The logic is simple. Mel wanted to be able to spend as much as he could to make up for the disadvantage Derby had against clubs in receipt of parachute payments. There wasn't a rule which stated straight-line must be used, which is why the club chose to adopt a different policy, giving them a fair advantage over clubs choosing not to do the same.

When a club gets more from parachute payments in a single year than the record non-parachute revenue in the Championship, the system is clearly broken. It's only natural to see clubs without that unfair advantage seeking ways to increase their own spend to earn promotion. Hence, Derby, Reading, Sheffield Weds, Blackburn, Birmingham, and others selling stadiums and training grounds, Forest and Watford selling players at over inflated amounts to their parent clubs or getting players from them on the cheap.

[Foreveram]

28 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

I don't expect any love from your fans for him, of course. I completely understand why you'd have a lot of anger to him.

The groups you mention disliking him have all come about from him pursuing their wrongdoings, or in the case of United, blind support for someone who used to play for them. Had you asked United, Derby or Sheff Wed fans in 2015 I doubt any would have ill feelings towards him, and I'd wager his name would come up quite a lot if asked about the best owners in football at that point. Certainly all the Liverpool fans I know have no recollection of the Ziege case and hold no ill will against Boro or Gibson, but I can't speak for all of them.

How could we complain about something that it is only possible to find out about, at least as a member of the public, retrospectively?

 

I don't think there is any form of siege mentality to be completely honest with you, the only people I have seen annoyed at us or Gibson personally is Derby fans and Derbyshire MP's.

 

Mel should've probably dealt with them then as he has now, if he wanted to sell the club. Given how frivolous and without precedent they supposedly were it should've been no more than a speed bump for you to negotiate when you weren't in administration.

 

 

Are you still wearing your stupid cardboard mask 

[i-Ram]

10 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Why are you on here?

It's a very good question. I quite like away fans popping in, having their little say, and disappearing once any fixture has been played out. I was always annoyed that Eeezetiger was bombed off here, and at least he kept his mocking (much of it funny) to his own little section of the Forum.  Come on @Boyciedo us all a favour and wave goodbye to BoringWill or whatever his name is.

[Ram-Alf]

13 minutes ago, ossieram said:

Why are you on here?

I've stuck him on "Ignore" 1st time i've done this to a poster

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The logic is simple. Mel wanted to be able to spend as much as he could to make up for the disadvantage Derby had against clubs in receipt of parachute payments. There wasn't a rule which stated straight-line must be used, which is why the club chose to adopt a different policy, giving them a fair advantage over clubs choosing not to do the same.

When a club gets more from parachute payments in a single year than the record non-parachute revenue in the Championship, the system is clearly broken. It's only natural to see clubs without that unfair advantage seeking ways to increase their own spend to earn promotion. Hence, Derby, Reading, Sheffield Weds, Blackburn, Birmingham, and others selling stadiums and training grounds, Forest and Watford selling players at over inflated amounts to their parent clubs or getting players from them on the cheap.

Sums it up. And then Efl deciding to close loopholes retrospectively. And be bullied by Gibson who also used a loophole that was closed off..but not retrospectively. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by PistoldPete

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

1 minute ago, Foreveram said:

Are you still wearing your stupid cardboard mask 

I think he was master of ceremonies at last weeks pre match prayer to the football deity that's Gibson.  The other followers had the masks.  Haven't physically seen Mel Morris for a bit .  Wonder where he is .

[mrdave85]

4 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

I've stuck him on "Ignore" 1st time i've done this to a poster

[Elwood P Dowd]

1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

I think he was master of ceremonies at last weeks pre match prayer to the football deity that's Gibson.  The other followers had the masks.  Haven't physically seen Mel Morris for a bit .  Wonder where he is .

Mel’s gone on holiday with Steve Gibson 

[Animal is a Ram]

1 hour ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks for this ?  My only issue with Jonathan's reply is that he seems to link the 9 point deduction with our amortisation policy. That isn't correct, and confuses the issues.  The 9 point deduction relates to our overspend. An overspend which would have happened whichever amortisation policy had been adopted, because Morris had lost control (in particular, the Bent one year contract extension is an example of the fact he, and others, at the top of the club had entered into multiple player contract arrangements which were unsustainable for a Championship club).  This is not to defend the EFL - their stance throught the amortisation review has been vindictive, principally it seems to protect themselves from a Boro counter claim against themselves.  There is a reasonable argument I think to seek a reduction or removal of the £100k fine we received, but that would only be a pyrrhic victory. I doubt there is much of a case to greatly reduce the 9 point penalty for P&S overspend, not that I would be unhappy if Ashley or any new owner wanted to give it a very real go when they get hold of the steering wheel.  

This was pretty much my thoughts.

I understand the anger towards the EFL on this one, but it has little to no bearing on what has befallen DCFC. Given the years that we failed, the years where the COVID adjustments come into force are the smallest breach of the ULT. 20/21 is the only P&S period that changes. Maybe there's a case for 1 point back, and a refund of the £100k?

I think the biggest anger is that this should have been done in the immediate aftermath of the original decision. Accept that 'the Derby way' for amortisation, while not against the rules, should now not be used as it's just too ambiguous. In addition, they've only changed the rules now, because their financial monitoring is, and has been very poor, to only realise that COVID has stuffed everyone and cause nearly a third of the league to fail P&S.

[BoroWill]

3 minutes ago, David said:

He is not too dissimilar in Mel Morris, who was also a local owner, donated large sums of money to buy medical equipment for the NHS in Derby, bankrolled the club with an ambition to take us up, whilst the fairy tale ends there I think it's worth reminding people that Steve Gibson sold off Middlesbrough's tax losses, there would have been no need to do that had he not been pushing the club to the limit, likewise Mel Morris with the stadium sale.

I think he's very dissimilar to Mel Morris, once you get past the local owner passionate about the local area. I also think there's quite a bit of false equivalence happening comparing selling one of any football clubs biggest assets in their stadium, compared to moving tax losses to another group company. One of your major stumbling blocks is due to not owning your stadium, and it has been a common theme with administration/liquidations of football clubs over the last 20+ years. Selling tax losses to another group company increases the value of the football club, selling the stadium gives you a short term boost but ultimately strips the football club of it's single largest asset.

 

8 minutes ago, David said:

Our "wrongdoings" was essentially the stadium valuation which was made independently, as Steve Gibson said that formed a significant part of his claim.

The charge against us on this was dismissed, the EFL chose not to appeal, you could argue it's defamation to label us as cheats when we have been cleared. If you was to go to court on a charge of murder, cleared, do you think it would be fair to continue to call you a murderer?

If the label of cheats was based solely on the stadium sale I would agree with you, but having accepted a punishment for falling foul of FFP it certainly wouldn't be defamation to refer to you as cheats on that basis.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

4 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

It's a very good question. I quite like away fans popping in, having their little say, and disappearing once any fixture has been played out. I was always annoyed that Eeezetiger was bombed off here, and at least he kept his mocking (much of it funny) to his own little section of the Forum.  Come on @Boyciedo us all a favour and wave goodbye to BoringWill or whatever his name is.

Give him another 30 minutes.  His calm and collected persona is about to burst into full on rage.  Should be quite the spectacle 

[DerbyRam!]

21 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Good question, now that the "biggest stumbling block" has been out of the way for over a week I expect your takeover is imminent. Darn that Steve Gibson holding all of this up!

No surprises here.

Get back in your hole mate ?

[kevinhectoring]

28 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

the only people I have seen annoyed at us or Gibson personally is Derby fans and Derbyshire MP's.

You can certainly add the EFl to that. And if you’re in any doubt, read Parry’s email of today to David Hinds (above)

[Rev]

1 hour ago, ilkleyram said:

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to have invited @David to dinner first, just to get to know him a bit better?

Not for maveRick Parry.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

3 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

You can certainly add the EFl to that. And if you’re in any doubt, read Parry’s email of today to David Hinds (above)

 

I came up this guy.  Whys he contacting someone from Steel Pulse.  

[Ghost of Clough]

7 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

I think he's very dissimilar to Mel Morris, once you get past the local owner passionate about the local area. I also think there's quite a bit of false equivalence happening comparing selling one of any football clubs biggest assets in their stadium, compared to moving tax losses to another group company. One of your major stumbling blocks is due to not owning your stadium, and it has been a common theme with administration/liquidations of football clubs over the last 20+ years. Selling tax losses to another group company increases the value of the football club, selling the stadium gives you a short term boost but ultimately strips the football club of it's single largest asset.

 

If the label of cheats was based solely on the stadium sale I would agree with you, but having accepted a punishment for falling foul of FFP it certainly wouldn't be defamation to refer to you as cheats on that basis.

You really do talk drivel. The stadium is not a stumbling block as all 3 PBs will have already spoken to Mel and MSD to determine whether they will pay the £20m required or continue to lease it.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

If the label of cheats was based solely on the stadium sale I would agree with you, but having accepted a punishment for falling foul of FFP it certainly wouldn't be defamation to refer to you as cheats on that basis.

Gibson's first wife, Vicky, said that he'd been cheating on her for years before they divorced.. Double standards come to mind BoringWill.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Public Service announcement for any Boro fans reading:

Yes, Derby fans think Mel Morris was wrong. Who is suffering for that? (Hint for the hard of thinking, it isn't Boro fans)

Yes, Steve Gibson has had his vengeance.

No, Steve Gibson's vengeance is not "justice" no matter how much you tell yourselves it is.

No, Derby avoiding relegation isn't the same as Derby not being punished/ not being punished enough (hint for the hard of thinking, if you think relegation should be a punishment, lobby the league to make that a rule)

No, Derby did not do anything wrong in the sale of Pride Park. This has been tested and found in Derby's favour. No matter how much Steve Gibson says otherwise.

No, if you harbor any notion that fans of Derby County are ever going to believe Gibson's actions against Derby a were right, you are mistaken.

 

[Day]

2 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

I think he's very dissimilar to Mel Morris, once you get past the local owner passionate about the local area. I also think there's quite a bit of false equivalence happening comparing selling one of any football clubs biggest assets in their stadium, compared to moving tax losses to another group company. One of your major stumbling blocks is due to not owning your stadium, and it has been a common theme with administration/liquidations of football clubs over the last 20+ years. Selling tax losses to another group company increases the value of the football club, selling the stadium gives you a short term boost but ultimately strips the football club of it's single largest asset.

If the label of cheats was based solely on the stadium sale I would agree with you, but having accepted a punishment for falling foul of FFP it certainly wouldn't be defamation to refer to you as cheats on that basis.

It's essentially the same thing, a way of injected cash into the club within the rules at the time. 

I'm not suggesting Boro have done anything wrong or looking for any kind of retrospective punishment, I would be a hypocrite to sit here and ask for that.

Both were morally questionable decisions by the owners, yet within the rules.

As for the stadium being a stumbling block, that's simply not true, it's a narrative being pushed from yours and Wycombe's end trying to deflect the blame.

We have a long term lease on the stadium for a low fee, any new owner has an option to buy the stadium for £20m to cover the MSD which are in Mel Morris's name (essentially gifting the stadium back), or continue to rent as we have been doing since the sale went through.

The situation has never changed and it's been confirmed time and time again. 

[Ghost of Clough]

13 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

If the label of cheats was based solely on the stadium sale I would agree with you, but having accepted a punishment for falling foul of FFP it certainly wouldn't be defamation to refer to you as cheats on that basis.

Fair enough. Just like Gibson proving he is a c**t because he's withdrawn his claim against the club beacuse he can finally get to Mel, he'll forever be referred to as a c**t

Edited February 18, 2022 by Ghost of Clough