The Administration Thread

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

You could argue that the question is still open (i.e. can clubs claim from each other for loss due to P&S breaches), so in theory other clubs could still go after us for compensation (Leeds, for example - "we would have beat them in the playoff semi if not for their pesky overspending" etc).  In that regard, it would have been better for us to have our day in court and get a definitive answer that you can't do that. 

Obviously in pretty much every other regard, getting the active issues dealt with and moving on is best for us.

Yes. Definitely the EFl is pissed off with Gibson and would have liked us to win the case against Boro  The problem they have is Gibson’s political sway at board level. The full timers at the EFl needed to do more and earlier to challenge this 

[Day]

11 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

Thanks for that David, In bold was the confusing part, Surely the EFL Should have said "yes we'll look into this in the close season" instead the EFL fold and put it through NOW!

There must be some very concerned Championship teams ATM ?

I honestly don't know the protocol and questioned it in an earlier post.

It could be that

1) The EFL Board can propose votes on rule changes at any time

2) Individual clubs can propose a rule change and vote

3) If X number of clubs propose a rule change and vote, it must take place

I very much doubt it was a unanimous vote in favour either way.

[Day]

12 minutes ago, ilkleyram said:

Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to have invited @David to dinner first, just to get to know him a bit better?

Sausages?

(Someone would have said it, so may as well get the likes for it myself)

[i-Ram]

16 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Unless we were able to extend contracts or make signings which would have allowed us to make an additional £20m worth of sales in 20/21 of course.
Without an embargo restricting our transfer activity (being able to maintain a healthy squad size), we could have sold Bird, Sibley, Knight, Buchanan, etc for at least £20m during the early parts of the 2021 summer window.

Sorry, I should have said in my post above. You are clearly much closer to what might or might not have been potentially achievable, if we were not embroiled in embargo restrictions. As I said earlier, if there is a case to be had against the EFL, I would be pleased if our future owner wanted to take it up on behalf of the club, or if in due course Morris wants to sue them. They have wronged us to some degree.

[duncanjwitham]

14 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

It’s a good one, and might better even the CM9 contract renewal when he was at Fulham. I am reserving my favourite until we might find out more about the Anya deal. That one has the potential to be the biggest “laugh” where we were paying someone a huge amount each week not to play.

The thing is, a lot of those decisions make sense in isolation.  The Bent extension was triggered by playing a certain number of games IIRC, so we either use a player a lot and get to keep him, or we don't use him much and he leaves. That sounds fine on paper. The Chris Martin extension makes sense when Steve McClaren is your manager and Chris Martin is the perfect striker for the way he plays.

What turned those decisions into farce is the lurching between styles of managers. We give Bent a conditional contract extension, then panic when a manager who uses him a lot triggers it. We give Martin an extension because the manager wants him, and by the time he gets back, that manager has been sacked.  It's like nobody at the club was talking to anybody else, or making plans for anything other than the next 5 minutes.

Obviously no excuses for Anya though. And I think Scott Malone was worst signing of the lot we made under Morris - not that he was a massively bad player or anything, just the idiocy of having 2 or 3 very good young left backs and spending prem money and prem wages on an average championship player in their place, and then moaning that we aren't using the academy properly.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

35 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Almost universally regarded as one of the best owners in the game, but I'm sure he will be devastated to hear that DCFCFans have decided he is a stain on football.

Gibsons like the human equivalent of Japanese Knotweed 

[May Contain Nuts]

10 minutes ago, David said:

If you want to hear tales of how great Steve is, what a gentleman and upstanding person in the community, you will not find that on here, so don't be shocked to read plenty of vitriol aimed towards Gibson and in our eyes it's fully deserved. Every single bit of it.

Begs the question of why he's come back on tbh.

There's nothing for him here. The Gibson stuff is 'sorted', we've played them twice already...

[Ghost of Clough]

23 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I don't see him as arguing. He's responding to professional and respectful E-mails written by David. I don't have an issue with that. (the answers he's giving is a different matter!)

Still don't understand why people are not more up in arms about the points penalty for failing P&S in the 20-21 year. The new rule we wouldn't fail it, and thats worth 1-2 points. to me - the 12 points for admin, the Boro Claim due to the cheating on P&S, the other years we failed - thats not going to change, but the 20-21 year it clearly does change it.

 

Every other club will now be compiling their P&S results using a different method to what Derby have done. This is the whole point - we got done for our Amortisation because it was different to every other club - but hey - this is now OK because it suits other clubs? This is 1-2 points we should be given back immediately!

 

I think you have it backwards. All clubs would have previously been made aware that £5m was the max allowance for 19/20 and 20/21. Those figures resulted in us being £1.96m above the limit.

However, if actual Covid losses were used (£13m+ in 20/21), we'd have been within the limit.

[Ram-Alf]

4 minutes ago, Coconut's Beard said:

Begs the question of why he's come back on tbh.

There's nothing for him here. The Gibson stuff is 'sorted', we've played them twice already...

Still partying after their 4-1 result which was helped by a certain man in black?

[kevinhectoring]

35 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

Almost universally regarded as one of the best owners in the game, but I'm sure he will be devastated to hear that DCFCFans have decided he is a stain on football.

He’s hijacked the EFl board to pursue his own agenda and he’s used a bogus legal claim to delay our exit from administration and to extort funds from Morris.  Sure Boro fans like the sound of that, but few of them understand the detail. Few neutrals have the patience to get to the bottom of it. Why not ponder Gary Neville’s comments though, there are no flies on him 

[May Contain Nuts]

10 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Obviously no excuses for Anya though.

Had a good playing relationship with Vydra, which you could see in the  sparse amount of time they spent together on the pitch under Pearson.

If that appointment hadn't gone so badly so quickly he could still have turned out to be a decent signing on the pitch.

Off the pitch though, yeah, a disaster - too expensive and it was clear that his face simply didn't fit with the rest of the group. It's not like there were doubts about his professionalism or he didn't put any effort in when he did play.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Coconut's Beard

[DCFC27]

22 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I don't see him as arguing. He's responding to professional and respectful E-mails written by David. I don't have an issue with that. (the answers he's giving is a different matter!)

Still don't understand why people are not more up in arms about the points penalty for failing P&S in the 20-21 year. The new rule we wouldn't fail it, and thats worth 1-2 points. to me - the 12 points for admin, the Boro Claim due to the cheating on P&S, the other years we failed - thats not going to change, but the 20-21 year it clearly does change it.

 

Every other club will now be compiling their P&S results using a different method to what Derby have done. This is the whole point - we got done for our Amortisation because it was different to every other club - but hey - this is now OK because it suits other clubs? This is 1-2 points we should be given back immediately!

 

Amicably arguing let’s say.* 

The point really being is that really shouldn’t be handled by Rick Parry, the response should just be along the lines of; 

Thank you for your email but I am not willing to enter into a discussion with a 3rd party about this closed case. 
 

Him arguing back only makes it look further like us vs them/ Derby Vs EFL Narrative. 

This is nothing against David fair play for approaching him. To me it’s just highlighted how dreadfully unprofessional the EFL are 

[BoroWill]

7 minutes ago, David said:

I can't disagree with this statement as I can't prove otherwise, by the same token I'm not sure this is something you can prove either.

Having visited the Sheffield Wednesday forum there isn't a lot of love on there for Steve Gibson, I would image Liverpool fans would also not agree having been on the end of his legal action along with other clubs. There is also a small matter of the Man United fanbase that have been questioning the claims in their support for Wayne Rooney.

You can only base your views on what you see and hear, and right now Forest, Leeds and bizarrely Bristol City fans have been very vocal in their support of Steve Gibson, although this will be down to rivalry....except for Bristol City which is once again just bizarre.

I don't expect any love from your fans for him, of course. I completely understand why you'd have a lot of anger to him.

The groups you mention disliking him have all come about from him pursuing their wrongdoings, or in the case of United, blind support for someone who used to play for them. Had you asked United, Derby or Sheff Wed fans in 2015 I doubt any would have ill feelings towards him, and I'd wager his name would come up quite a lot if asked about the best owners in football at that point. Certainly all the Liverpool fans I know have no recollection of the Ziege case and hold no ill will against Boro or Gibson, but I can't speak for all of them.

12 minutes ago, David said:

Let's also not forget, nowhere would you find Boro fans complaining at the time in 18/19, Tony Pulis was the target of your frustrations and rightly so, only now that Gibson's claims became public are Boro fans out in force to support their owner, which is commendable. 

How could we complain about something that it is only possible to find out about, at least as a member of the public, retrospectively?

 

15 minutes ago, David said:

We have seen the benefits of a siege mentality ourselves recently, even clubs such as Leeds which we dislike with a passion, you have to applaud the way they defend their club and anyone connected.

I don't think there is any form of siege mentality to be completely honest with you, the only people I have seen annoyed at us or Gibson personally is Derby fans and Derbyshire MP's.

 

18 minutes ago, David said:

End of the day, it's quite possible the club could have been sold long before we entered administration had we not had these claims over us, they have been the main stumbling block. That's 12 points back on the board, no Embargos and we could potentially be challenging the top 6 with you this season. 

Mel should've probably dealt with them then as he has now, if he wanted to sell the club. Given how frivolous and without precedent they supposedly were it should've been no more than a speed bump for you to negotiate when you weren't in administration.

 

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

31 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I don't see him as arguing. He's responding to professional and respectful E-mails written by David. I don't have an issue with that. (the answers he's giving is a different matter!)

Still don't understand why people are not more up in arms about the points penalty for failing P&S in the 20-21 year. The new rule we wouldn't fail it, and thats worth 1-2 points. to me - the 12 points for admin, the Boro Claim due to the cheating on P&S, the other years we failed - thats not going to change, but the 20-21 year it clearly does change it.

 

Every other club will now be compiling their P&S results using a different method to what Derby have done. This is the whole point - we got done for our Amortisation because it was different to every other club - but hey - this is now OK because it suits other clubs? This is 1-2 points we should be given back immediately!

 

Will get an email off later.  Help the points total by getting back what were owed.   Keep it simple by stating following yesterdays statement we need our points penalty for 20-21 reducing by 2 points immediately.  A few thousand of those should get them thinking.

[PistoldPete]

3 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

I don't expect any love from your fans for him, of course. I completely understand why you'd have a lot of anger to him.

The groups you mention disliking him have all come about from him pursuing their wrongdoings, or in the case of United, blind support for someone who used to play for them. Had you asked United, Derby or Sheff Wed fans in 2015 I doubt any would have ill feelings towards him, and I'd wager his name would come up quite a lot if asked about the best owners in football at that point. Certainly all the Liverpool fans I know have no recollection of the Ziege case and hold no ill will against Boro or Gibson, but I can't speak for all of them.

How could we complain about something that it is only possible to find out about, at least as a member of the public, retrospectively?

 

I don't think there is any form of siege mentality to be completely honest with you, the only people I have seen annoyed at us or Gibson personally is Derby fans and Derbyshire MP's.

 

Mel should've probably dealt with them then as he has now, if he wanted to sell the club. Given how frivolous and without precedent they supposedly were it should've been no more than a speed bump for you to negotiate when you weren't in administration.

 

 

You didn't read the Martin  samuel article in the Daily Mail then?

My daughter doesn't follow football at all. She asked me why Gibson  was suing Derby. I said because Boro didn't get promoted. She said "that's his personal problem". She is very smart my daughter.  Gibson clearly does have a personal problem.
 

[BoroWill]

4 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

He’s hijacked the EFl board to pursue his own agenda and he’s used a bogus legal claim to delay our exit from administration and to extort funds from Morris.  Sure Boro fans like the sound of that, but few of them understand the detail. Few neutrals have the patience to get to the bottom of it. Why not ponder Gary Neville’s comments though, there are no flies on him 

Hijacked the EFL board? ? You lot do make me laugh. Only a few posts ago the EFL were pissed off with Gibson, last night they were giving him a helping hand by allowing more Covid losses to be written off this season. Could you make your minds up?

Gary Neville's comments were salient and I agreed with them, your former owner came back and coughed up some of the money that he should still be responsible for, according to Gary Neville, so thankfully the stumbling block of our case has been removed.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

20 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Sorry, I should have said in my post above. You are clearly much closer to what might or might not have been potentially achievable, if we were not embroiled in embargo restrictions. As I said earlier, if there is a case to be had against the EFL, I would be pleased if our future owner wanted to take it up on behalf of the club, or if in due course Morris wants to sue them. They have wronged us to some degree.

If the club is still in the Championship next season, I imagine the club will just want to move on from this whole saga.
If we go down, maybe an owner will claim against the EFL. To be honest, I doubt we'll be successful in that as we accepted our points deduction.

Mel might feel he has a case either way due to the EFL's actions costing takeovers to collapse and costing him a lot of money.

[BoroWill]

1 minute ago, PistoldPete said:

You didn't read the Martin  samuel article in the Daily Mail then?

My daughter doesn't follow football at all. She asked me why Gibson  was suing Derby. I said because Boro didn't get promoted. She said "that's his personal problem". She is very smart my daughter.  Gibson clearly does have a personal problem.
 

Your daughter may well be very smart, unfortunately her father has given her such a simplified version of events that he has done her a disservice. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

5 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

I don't expect any love from your fans for him, of course. I completely understand why you'd have a lot of anger to him.

The groups you mention disliking him have all come about from him pursuing their wrongdoings, or in the case of United, blind support for someone who used to play for them. Had you asked United, Derby or Sheff Wed fans in 2015 I doubt any would have ill feelings towards him, and I'd wager his name would come up quite a lot if asked about the best owners in football at that point. Certainly all the Liverpool fans I know have no recollection of the Ziege case and hold no ill will against Boro or Gibson, but I can't speak for all of them.

How could we complain about something that it is only possible to find out about, at least as a member of the public, retrospectively?

 

I don't think there is any form of siege mentality to be completely honest with you, the only people I have seen annoyed at us or Gibson personally is Derby fans and Derbyshire MP's.

 

Mel should've probably dealt with them then as he has now, if he wanted to sell the club. Given how frivolous and without precedent they supposedly were it should've been no more than a speed bump for you to negotiate when you weren't in administration.

 

 

Can I ask when the bastion of football fairness will be taking action against Bournemouth for hammering FFP on their way up, taking 4 points off you.  Take them off Bournemouth and give them to you and your automatically promoted, no playoff lottery or anything.  I'll wait with interest.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

8 minutes ago, BoroWill said:

How could we complain about something that it is only possible to find out about, at least as a member of the public, retrospectively?

The amortisation policy change was available in the public domain on the 7th April 2017. Over 2 years before Gibson threw a hissy fit over our accounts.

What makes the matter even worse, is that Gibson only thought the stadium was over-valued and had no issue with the amortisation policy up until 2021!