The Administration Thread

[Curtains]

Just now, Zag zig said:

Listening to the Latham led debate, it’s noticeable how many M.P’s of both sides were piling into the EFL.

The Crouch review will unravel their power, just a matter of time.

Won’t help us though unfortunately.

[KBB]

1 minute ago, B4ev6is said:

I think that bloke from QPR on it as well so I am guessing he sold his shares so he can be on ours.

That hasn't and won't happen.

[B4ev6is]

1 minute ago, Curtains said:

Won’t help us though unfortunately.

How do you know if wont help us.

[B4ev6is]

1 minute ago, KBB said:

That hasn't and won't happen.

Well did you see who on the board then.

[KBB]

Just now, B4ev6is said:

Well did you see who on the board then.

No I haven't. However I am pretty convinced a person who has recently invested in the last month in a club the level above us is not going to immediately pull that investment out and go straight in to another at Derby. Sorry B4 but that is simply never going to happen.

[Kernow]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

Apologies if this has been stated before…

Does anyone know roughly how much Clowes / the specific group that are attempting to buy the club are worth? How much money they have in comparison to say Mel Morris / Mike Ashley?

Its fairytale stuff for a fan and local guy to buy your club (heard that somewhere before) but can he actually afford this?

And by afford I mean pay off debts / buy an entire new squad / a new coaching team / new recruitment department / all the other never ending bills that come with owning a money guzzling football club in 2022?

Its all well and good saying: it doesn’t matter how much he has as long as he runs us properly, but that is a very unrealistic way of looking at this. 

I have no idea how much he has. You could Google it, but again it wouldn't necessarily tell us an accurate figure. In 2018 he was listed as being worth £252mil, how accurate that is I have no idea, but my hypothesis for the deal, and his motivation, is this...

Whoever buys Derby County will be buying a club that has to operate under restrictions for the next couple of years at least. That includes how much we can spend on wages and transfer fees. In League One, in theory, it should mean that with our revenue we will be able to be self-sufficient. We can start to look to build again without having the possibility of forking out extortionate amounts. We can give longer contracts than 12 months to players, so if we can recruit another Luke Plange or Malcolm Ebiowei, like we have managed to do whilst already under restrictions, then they aren't going to be poached off of us without our say so. If we choose to sell them, we get a fee to benefit us.

Meanwhile, while we're repairing ourselves and improving, we become much more of an attractive prospect to a more ambitious buyer. We won't have the debts, we won't have the admin fees, we won't have a loan against Pride Park that essentially blocks any sale for however long.

If Clowes doesn't have the funds to keep us beyond our restricted period, I doubt he'd have anywhere near as much trouble selling us. And comparatively, he would still own a stadium that he's bought for a pretty decent price, and could use his business expertise to make a profit on. He also would have saved the Club he's loved his whole life without denting his *reported* net worth much at all.

I think if Clowes wanted the Club for himself indefinitely, he would have entered the game a lot sooner. But he's in because Derby County dying is simply not an option, and if spending a portion of his wealth on us for a couple of years whilst we heal is the price it costs, then I think he's only doing what 95% of us would also do if we had his level of wealth.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

Apologies if this has been stated before…

Does anyone know roughly how much Clowes / the specific group that are attempting to buy the club are worth? How much money they have in comparison to say Mel Morris / Mike Ashley?

Its fairytale stuff for a fan and local guy to buy your club (heard that somewhere before) but can he actually afford this?

And by afford I mean pay off debts / buy an entire new squad / a new coaching team / new recruitment department / all the other never ending bills that come with owning a money guzzling football club in 2022?

Its all well and good saying: it doesn’t matter how much he has as long as he runs us properly, but that is a very unrealistic way of looking at this. 

Ì think they've averaged about £13m profit a year over the past 15 years.

[Topram]

excuses already? ??

[Wignall12]

14 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

Again, you infer something that I have neither said nor believe. 

I’m not sure why someone asking how much money a prospective Derby County owner has got has ruffled your feathers.

Not in the least bit ruffled mi-duck .......sorry if I misinterpreted your post as a concern and ruffled yours ??

[B4ev6is]

5 minutes ago, KBB said:

No I haven't. However I am pretty convinced a person who has recently invested in the last month in a club the level above us is not going to immediately pull that investment out and go straight in to another at Derby. Sorry B4 but that is simply never going to happen.

Well it showed when clows Brought pp that why I think we shall be fine just think postive and not negative.

[Dimmu]

From Frank Lampard's Derby County to Wayne Rooney's Derby County. Maybe we should finally get the name right?

Derby County - Never stop the madness!

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Does the FA even have the power to impose a points deduction (as the article implies)? Surely only the EFL can deduct points in the EFL. Also it says they are facing pressure from other clubs? Really, the news has only just broken so I would have thought there’s little chance other clubs have contacted the EFL (incidentally. Not the FA) about the suspended points deduction so early whilst it’s still being investigated.

Curly Sue has got both FA and EFL on speed dial.... ?

[NottmRAM]

1 hour ago, Kuskus said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10961729/Derby-County-face-points-deduction-season.html

 

Triple S Group say they notified the FA about the payment according to the telegraph. 

[Gisby]

5 minutes ago, Kernow said:

I have no idea how much he has. You could Google it, but again it wouldn't necessarily tell us an accurate figure. In 2018 he was listed as being worth £252mil, how accurate that is I have no idea, but my hypothesis for the deal, and his motivation, is this...

Whoever buys Derby County will be buying a club that has to operate under restrictions for the next couple of years at least. That includes how much we can spend on wages and transfer fees. In League One, in theory, it should mean that with our revenue we will be able to be self-sufficient. We can start to look to build again without having the possibility of forking out extortionate amounts. We can give longer contracts than 12 months to players, so if we can recruit another Luke Plange or Malcolm Ebiowei, like we have managed to do whilst already under restrictions, then they aren't going to be poached off of us without our say so. If we choose to sell them, we get a fee to benefit us.

Meanwhile, while we're repairing ourselves and improving, we become much more of an attractive prospect to a more ambitious buyer. We won't have the debts, we won't have the admin fees, we won't have a loan against Pride Park that essentially blocks any sale for however long.

If Clowes doesn't have the funds to keep us beyond our restricted period, I doubt he'd have anywhere near as much trouble selling us. And comparatively, he would still own a stadium that he's bought for a pretty decent price, and could use his business expertise to make a profit on. He also would have saved the Club he's loved his whole life without denting his *reported* net worth much at all.

I think if Clowes wanted the Club for himself indefinitely, he would have entered the game a lot sooner. But he's in because Derby County dying is simply not an option, and if spending a portion of his wealth on us for a couple of years whilst we heal is the price it costs, then I think he's only doing what 95% of us would also do if we had his level of wealth.

Bang on!!! And hopefully his commitment to the club will mean when he does sell he does his due diligence and sells to someone who has ambitions for the club aligned to his own. 

[Wolfie20]

25 minutes ago, The Key Club King said:

All I'm asking for from our new owner is to build a sustainable, self-funding football club by buying exciting players on high salaries at expensive fees. This can start by bringing in expensive former players that have failed with us, moved on and failed elsewhere, and are now magically available on free transfers. 

Maybe I've been reading too much Twitter.

Most of us wanted Ashley as he has deep pockets and we can complain if he does not "invest". Spending lots of money remains the most effective way to get promoted and always has been. Despite seemingly well-run clubs like Brentford and Brighton doing well, this will not last (see Swansea, Burnley, Bournemouth, West Brom, Sheff Utd etc.)

Forest have had a magnificent season and if anybody wants to tell me what the Forest model is than I'd be interested to know. I'd say it's spend lots of money, a few dodgy loans/buys/sales, sack your manager and then hire another one until it works out. 

What makes you say most of us wanted Ashley?

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

His estimated net worth when featured on the 2018 Rich List was £252million pounds. That figure is likely to have changed in the 4 years since, maybe increased or decreased, only he and his accountant will know that actual figure. 

It has been suggested based on media reports and historic examples of clubs exiting administration (as frustratingly the EFL regs don’t include published processes for post insolvency events) that we will be subject to restrictions as to how much we can spend on transfer fees (if anything) and wages in line with an agreed business plan between the new owner and the league. Which makes the general consensus, whoever takes the club on will not be able to immediately bankroll an assault on the leagues and we have to temper our expectations accordingly. What that could mean is Clowes is able to acquire the club, settle 100% of football debts, 25p in the pound to other creditors then steady the ship and build sensibly and gradually towards promotion with a sustainable model. Utilising the academy, effective recruitment and the large revenue opportunities presented by our fandom to build wealth within the club and not throw good money after bad like Mr Morris before.

I’d also add, let’s wait for the takeover to happen and I suspect he will tell us what his plan is. Hopefully the days of us wildly speculating in the absence of solid info and communication are numbered. The Clowes statement was mature and informative in my view, delivered in the right way once there was something to share, I’m hoping that will be the case moving forward. 

I fully agree. David Clowes has said in the media that he hopes to attract further investors. I fully believe that discussions around that were going on before the announcement that he had completed the stadium purchase was made. I posted on here on Sunday what I had been told about potential other investors and the news of the share distribution changes for stadium ownership seems to fit in with that. David Clowes made his move last week to rescue the club from administration urgently. I am confident that he wouldn't have moved so quickly without some assurance that further investment would be forthcoming from people he can trust. This is not about a man on an ego trip or a reckless gamble but a man trying to do his sensible best for our football club. Other investors to spread his risk will remove the fears being aired on here still. I am confident that he will succeed.

[Zag zig]

13 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Won’t help us though unfortunately.

With the EFL rules in the past no.

However, it’s clear listening the full debate, as I’ve just done thanks to @RoyMac5 link, that all M.P’s put politics aside and have been bending the ear of the sports minister. In turn, he’s been forced to apply pressure on the EFL and administrators to come to a resolution.

Without that effort in part, we could’ve been another Bury. Only the size of our support, public opinion has focused all colours of the political spectrum into action. It’s a rare moment that you see politicians act in unison, but in truth they had little choice.

Too many have applied pressure, with Crouch herself adding to that pressure, for the sports minister to turn a blind eye to either us or future changes to the governance in the game. So in some ways it will help us.

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Nuwtfly said:

Apologies if this has been stated before…

Does anyone know roughly how much Clowes / the specific group that are attempting to buy the club are worth? How much money they have in comparison to say Mel Morris / Mike Ashley?

Its fairytale stuff for a fan and local guy to buy your club (heard that somewhere before) but can he actually afford this?

And by afford I mean pay off debts / buy an entire new squad / a new coaching team / new recruitment department / all the other never ending bills that come with owning a money guzzling football club in 2022?

Its all well and good saying: it doesn’t matter how much he has as long as he runs us properly, but that is a very unrealistic way of looking at this. 

Clowes Developments had net assets of £266.7m as of 31 March 2021.

The financials are easily accessible on the company's website:

https://clowes.co.uk/financials/

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said:

I don't see that it's anything to do with Morris at all.

As far as I can see, it's by no means certain that this company is even related to the takeover - it could be for something else that Clowes are doing.  But if it is related to us (and bear in mind that this is my wild, probably very uniformed, speculation), then it's my understanding that the only reason you'd issue shares in a big number like that is if you wanted an unequal ownership arrangement (in terms of percentage of the company owned).  Normally you see things like 1 or 2 shares in a company like this - for example Morris only had 1 share in Gellaw Newco 202, since he was the sole owner.  And up until yesterday, it looks like David Clowes and Ian Dickinson had 1 share each as equal partners.  So if they're issuing that many shares now, does that mean they want to give somebody else a smaller holding?  It could just be that they're giving Clowes 99.9% of the company and Dickinson the remaining 1 share, to reflect the amount of cash they've each put in or something. Or it could be a 3rd party is taking some stake.  Or maybe I have no clue what I'm talking about.

The number of shares is entirely discretionary. Could issue 1 share for 50m or 50m shares for £1

You're spot on that the reason for issuing more is to make it easy for dc to add investors in the future - he just flogs them a portion of his holding.

The other route makes it much more difficult for dc to get any of his money back out of the club as he would have to issue a new share class then either repay directors loans on his shares, or declare divis either of which would be a ball ache.... ?

[RoyMac5]

"The agency representing Wayne Rooney has defended its decision to secretly pay staff and player wages at Derby County as part of a bridging loan for American businessman Chris Kirchner."

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-wayne-rooney-agency-defends-173459682.html

"The Triple S Group is aware of The FA’s routine investigation – indeed, it was the Triple S Group that voluntarily disclosed the information to The FA which has resulted in further inquiry," a spokesperson said.

“We were surprised that details of this investigation have appeared in the press while the investigative process is ongoing. Regardless, the Triple S Group is confident in the legal advice it sought originally and will continue to cooperate fully with The FA to resolve this matter swiftly. No further comment will be made at this time.”

Insiders clarified it was Triple S rather than Paul Stretford, an influential agent who is a minority shareholder in the agency, which had made the payment to administrators when Kirchner's deal ran into trouble."

Edited June 28, 2022 by RoyMac5