The Administration Thread

[CBRammette]

2 hours ago, Oldben said:

Does the council have the budget.

Many councils are financially struggling plus does that mean a temporary reduction in services for disadvantaged groups until the income comes in from the stadium.

Would the council need to take the risk of a very large loan.

It might be better to find a someone willing to risk acquiring the ground.

There didnt seem to be such a person did there?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

11 hours ago, therealhantsram said:

If this was Alonso I would agree. But there are several things about Kirchner that are very different...

He does have a legitimate business.

He has a CEO lined up. One with a good football pedigree.

He has already been seen at PP watching games and seems like a genuine fan of football.

I do think he is genuine in his interest, not a chancer or tyre kicker.

There isnof course that possibility he could pull out for whatever reason. But I think he is genuine if naïve.

Good assessment.

His business isn’t his source of funds though. If what he says is true, his money has been made from investing in crypto very early. Can only hope he’s telling the truth.

Edited April 11, 2022 by DarkFruitsRam7

[24Charlie]

2 hours ago, Oldben said:

Does the council have the budget.

Many councils are financially struggling plus does that mean a temporary reduction in services for disadvantaged groups until the income comes in from the stadium.

Would the council need to take the risk of a very large loan.

It might be better to find a someone willing to risk acquiring the ground.

No risk or cost to the council. They buy the ground with the banks money and the new owner effectively pays the mortgage.

Buy to let basically. As long as there’s a DCFC there’ll be someone to rent. An owner may chose to buy later on. The bank will see this as a very acceptable plan, no risk.

[BramcoteRam84]

CK has responded to questions on PNE, why does he need to respond again, other to get embroiled in an unecessary unhelpful tit for tat. Let’s also remember despite saying they’ve kept quiet Ridsdale has clearly been leaking the Preston side to Maguire and the Mail. There are always two sides to a negotiation and two sets of interpretations. The depth of his answers on his plans for the club in that Q&A give me confidence he isn’t a tyre kicker (or he is the best bullshitter and greatest conman in history), that and Q have done their due diligence on him and Administrators are usually forensic about these things. 

We will know in the next few weeks, if he doesn’t have the money he won’t get the deal done - simple 

[Ghost of Clough]

56 minutes ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Interesting that PNE have put out a statement and it seems a PNE fan has asked him about it.  Maybe they should read the Q&A……

When asked about why he pulled out of purchasing Preston North End he said

“Let’s do a hypothetical here… Ever buy a car? If someone raises the price halfway through the deal by 10% over what you agreed then wants to force you to buy options and packages you don’t want/need with the car, would you buy it?”

“We started comparing every other club to Derby in terms of infrastructure. The other clubs we looked at needed significant improvements to produce players through the academy at the level we want long term.”

He never said the price went up by 10%, he gave a hypothetical example.  He talks about the infrastructure, etc and I think some posters talked about buying land for the PNE academy.  Rather than the actual purchase price, maybe it’s things like this that were added in/discovered during due diligence that increased his investment.  Maybe not at the time of initial purchase but in the months/years following.  That probably made us more attractive as in our case it already in place, just needs to be maintained.  To use his car analogy, for us, he doesn’t need to buy the car, just keep it serviced.

I think the 10% and add-ins were more in reference to how much extra it would cost to get their infrastructure on par with ours?

[PistoldPete]

6 hours ago, Bubbles said:

Hopefully, B4. I just find it kind of strange how this gentleman asked him a genuine question, especially one that has come out after Preston’s recent statement, and has decided to block him

PReston North End have been Preston #### Ends.

someone from their club leaked a story to the Daily Fail, probably rIdsdale, about them not believing he had the money .. pure sour grapes.

 

he then says he pulled out because they needed major investment in their facilities so would cost more than the initial investment. 
 

PNE then put out an official statement .. basically a straw argument saying they never put the price up. Kirchner never said they did, so they are being total duck  jobs.

[FlyBritishMidland]

17 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Yes exactly and he probably just really liked everything about the first car and finding the price had been lowered a little or the previous owner was out of the picture so he could buy the dream car was straight back in there.  

I dont mean you at all with these questions FBM but I am not blindly in favour of him, after Mel probably will never trust an owner again really, but why are some of our fans trying so hard to undermine him and get him to withdraw as PB? At least give him a chance. Remember the opinion of Wayne as manager initially? Remember the opinion of Mel as owner initially? How right we were!! Or are some so hellbent on another buyer who could have become PB at any point between December and now if they had actually wanted to, that they will not accept the only one who seems to want to actively take us on? It may be a disaster but it might not

I think there’s a lot of scepticism following MM, and justifiably so.  He was the dream owner - local boy done good invests in his boyhood team.  What could possibly go wrong??!!

Likewise, I don’t meannyou but it could by any PB and there’ll be criticism from some quarters.  If it was Appleby some would say we were too frugal last time, lacked ambition, etc. (personally I think that was right and we had a well run club).  If it was Ashley others would say haven’t we listened to the Newcastle fans, look how he runs his business/treats his employers.  And we’ve seen the criticism of CK and he hasn’t even been a week since he was announced.

We have someone who’s prepared to save us and invest in what is a mess left behind by MM.  Wayne likes him, he’s got good footballing people behind him.  Garry Cook hasn’t just joined up with him in the last couple of weeks, he’s been there throughout.  He’s obviously had a plan to invest in a football club for some time and, by his own admission, has looked at a few options.  We’re not in a position to be choosy, so for now, until we know more let’s get behind him!!

[RamBeauIV]

2 hours ago, Oldben said:

Does the council have the budget.

Many councils are financially struggling plus does that mean a temporary reduction in services for disadvantaged groups until the income comes in from the stadium.

Would the council need to take the risk of a very large loan.

It might be better to find a someone willing to risk acquiring the ground.

Excellent Questions!!!! 

Quite a few people have been suggesting that the Council can turn a profit on renting to us for £1M or £2M per season!  Fantasy Island.

A fair rent might actually be over £5M per season if the Council is not going to be increasing our council tax further.   

The cost of running a football stadium for 12 months (the Boro costs from a few years ago):

• Business Rates = £1.2M
• Utility Bills (Gas, Water, Electricity) = £760K
• Fire, Theft, Liability Insurance = £380K
• Police Costs = £300K
• Other Security, Surveillance, CCTV = £300K
• Medical Presence (Paramedics etc.) = £400K
• VAT = £1.4M
• Ticket Office, Hospitality & Kiosks = £2.5M plus £300K N.I.
• Stewards & PT Staff = £400K
• Ground Maintenance = £400K
• Stadium Cleaning = £345K
• Cleaning Equipment & Sundries = £250K

Who's going to pay these costs? Mel, the council?  The income from tickets, matchdays and sponsorship will soon get swallowed up.  We need the new owner to buy PPS as well as the club.

[CBRammette]

11 minutes ago, RamBeauIV said:

Excellent Questions!!!! 

Quite a few people have been suggesting that the Council can turn a profit on renting to us for £1M or £2M per season!  Fantasy Island.

A fair rent might actually be over £5M per season if the Council is not going to be increasing our council tax further.   

The cost of running a football stadium for 12 months (the Boro costs from a few years ago):

• Business Rates = £1.2M
• Utility Bills (Gas, Water, Electricity) = £760K
• Fire, Theft, Liability Insurance = £380K
• Police Costs = £300K
• Other Security, Surveillance, CCTV = £300K
• Medical Presence (Paramedics etc.) = £400K
• VAT = £1.4M
• Ticket Office, Hospitality & Kiosks = £2.5M plus £300K N.I.
• Stewards & PT Staff = £400K
• Ground Maintenance = £400K
• Stadium Cleaning = £345K
• Cleaning Equipment & Sundries = £250K

Who's going to pay these costs? Mel, the council?  The income from tickets, matchdays and sponsorship will soon get swallowed up.  We need the new owner to buy PPS as well as the club.

Why would any rental from the council to the club cover all these costs? 

Edited April 11, 2022 by CBRammette
Added word

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

13 minutes ago, RamBeauIV said:

Excellent Questions!!!! 

Quite a few people have been suggesting that the Council can turn a profit on renting to us for £1M or £2M per season!  Fantasy Island.

A fair rent might actually be over £5M per season if the Council is not going to be increasing our council tax further.   

The cost of running a football stadium for 12 months (the Boro costs from a few years ago):

• Business Rates = £1.2M
• Utility Bills (Gas, Water, Electricity) = £760K
• Fire, Theft, Liability Insurance = £380K
• Police Costs = £300K
• Other Security, Surveillance, CCTV = £300K
• Medical Presence (Paramedics etc.) = £400K
• VAT = £1.4M
• Ticket Office, Hospitality & Kiosks = £2.5M plus £300K N.I.
• Stewards & PT Staff = £400K
• Ground Maintenance = £400K
• Stadium Cleaning = £345K
• Cleaning Equipment & Sundries = £250K

Who's going to pay these costs? Mel, the council?  The income from tickets, matchdays and sponsorship will soon get swallowed up.  We need the new owner to buy PPS as well as the club.

Those costs seem astronomical to me for 23 games plus a couple of cup ties. 

[kevinhectoring]

8 minutes ago, RamBeauIV said:

Excellent Questions!!!! 

Quite a few people have been suggesting that the Council can turn a profit on renting to us for £1M or £2M per season!  Fantasy Island.

A fair rent might actually be over £5M per season if the Council is not going to be increasing our council tax further.   

The cost of running a football stadium for 12 months (the Boro costs from a few years ago):

• Business Rates = £1.2M
• Utility Bills (Gas, Water, Electricity) = £760K
• Fire, Theft, Liability Insurance = £380K
• Police Costs = £300K
• Other Security, Surveillance, CCTV = £300K
• Medical Presence (Paramedics etc.) = £400K
• VAT = £1.4M
• Ticket Office, Hospitality & Kiosks = £2.5M plus £300K N.I.
• Stewards & PT Staff = £400K
• Ground Maintenance = £400K
• Stadium Cleaning = £345K
• Cleaning Equipment & Sundries = £250K

Who's going to pay these costs? Mel, the council?  The income from tickets, matchdays and sponsorship will soon get swallowed up.  We need the new owner to buy PPS as well as the club.

Could be good business for the council

MM should agree to ‘sell’ at a discount to the 20m he wants - ie he pays off some of the MSD debt himself  So city gets the stadium for less than 20m

club should pay overheads but otherwise get the stadium rent free for say 5 years

rent then reverts to market level based on some formula - will be a significant return if we’re back in the Championship (or better!) 

buyer can buy after 5 years at a price based on a formula - will give the city significant profit if we’re in the championship 

but the  idea it’s risk free is not right sadly

 

[Ram a lamb a ding dong]

I bet he's blocked that Andy guy. I've unfollowed

[Strider]

1 hour ago, CBRammette said:

There didnt seem to be such a person did there?

 

Enter Mike Ashley... could buy the stadium and use it for marketing purposes. Then wait in the wings until CK wants out of the club.

[Crewton]

18 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Those costs seem astronomical to me for 23 games plus a couple of cup ties. 

Makes you wonder why Steve Gibson set such a reckless budget for players wages if the stadium alone was costing almost as much as they take in ticket sales, doesn't it? 

[SamUltraRam]

32 minutes ago, RamBeauIV said:

Excellent Questions!!!! 

Quite a few people have been suggesting that the Council can turn a profit on renting to us for £1M or £2M per season!  Fantasy Island.

A fair rent might actually be over £5M per season if the Council is not going to be increasing our council tax further.   

The cost of running a football stadium for 12 months (the Boro costs from a few years ago):

• Business Rates = £1.2M
• Utility Bills (Gas, Water, Electricity) = £760K
• Fire, Theft, Liability Insurance = £380K
• Police Costs = £300K
• Other Security, Surveillance, CCTV = £300K
• Medical Presence (Paramedics etc.) = £400K
• VAT = £1.4M
• Ticket Office, Hospitality & Kiosks = £2.5M plus £300K N.I.
• Stewards & PT Staff = £400K
• Ground Maintenance = £400K
• Stadium Cleaning = £345K
• Cleaning Equipment & Sundries = £250K

Who's going to pay these costs? Mel, the council?  The income from tickets, matchdays and sponsorship will soon get swallowed up.  We need the new owner to buy PPS as well as the club.

Most of those costs would be the responsibility of the tenant, not the landlord. So I do think the Council could take on ground ownership. They would also be protecting the many other local businesses that rely on matchday income and would still be getting the business rates from the club - no club, no business rates !

We know the ongoing cost of running the club will be high for the new owner, probably why the new owner process has proved so difficult but in the due process will be clear to them. If the new owner can't afford it then they wont buy but they must already know about these costs, it's not a secret.

 

[JRW1611]

28 minutes ago, RamBeauIV said:

Excellent Questions!!!! 

Quite a few people have been suggesting that the Council can turn a profit on renting to us for £1M or £2M per season!  Fantasy Island.

A fair rent might actually be over £5M per season if the Council is not going to be increasing our council tax further.   

The cost of running a football stadium for 12 months (the Boro costs from a few years ago):

• Business Rates = £1.2M
• Utility Bills (Gas, Water, Electricity) = £760K
• Fire, Theft, Liability Insurance = £380K
• Police Costs = £300K
• Other Security, Surveillance, CCTV = £300K
• Medical Presence (Paramedics etc.) = £400K
• VAT = £1.4M
• Ticket Office, Hospitality & Kiosks = £2.5M plus £300K N.I.
• Stewards & PT Staff = £400K
• Ground Maintenance = £400K
• Stadium Cleaning = £345K
• Cleaning Equipment & Sundries = £250K

Who's going to pay these costs? Mel, the council?  The income from tickets, matchdays and sponsorship will soon get swallowed up.  We need the new owner to buy PPS as well as the club.

Apart from those costs would mostly be taken on by the club. 
If you rent a house you (generally) don’t get your utility bills paid for as part of the deal. They are on top of the rent. The council could just sign a deal where most of those things are the clubs responsibility. 

[Carnero]

Interesting interview with Garry Cook from back in January if anyone wants it.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vVEFNQzE5NzkwMDE4NTk/episode/MTE5ODdmYmMtNmFmOC0xMWVjLThkNWYtOGYyYTI0YzNmNWY2?ep=14

Talks about Derby for the last 6 mins or so.

I still can't someone with Cook's career and reputation working with Kirchner if the guy wasn't serious.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Carnero

[duncanjwitham]

20 minutes ago, JRW1611 said:

Apart from those costs would mostly be taken on by the club. 
If you rent a house you (generally) don’t get your utility bills paid for as part of the deal. They are on top of the rent. The council could just sign a deal where most of those things are the clubs responsibility. 

I'd say all of them would be taken by the club. The only one that's even debatable is ground maintenance, and it depends what that's covering - you certainly wouldn't expect the council to be covering having the pitch re-laid or anything like that.

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

Interesting that PNE have put out a statement and it seems a PNE fan has asked him about it.  Maybe they should read the Q&A……

When asked about why he pulled out of purchasing Preston North End he said

“Let’s do a hypothetical here… Ever buy a car? If someone raises the price halfway through the deal by 10% over what you agreed then wants to force you to buy options and packages you don’t want/need with the car, would you buy it?”

“We started comparing every other club to Derby in terms of infrastructure. The other clubs we looked at needed significant improvements to produce players through the academy at the level we want long term.”

He never said the price went up by 10%, he gave a hypothetical example.  He talks about the infrastructure, etc and I think some posters talked about buying land for the PNE academy.  Rather than the actual purchase price, maybe it’s things like this that were added in/discovered during due diligence that increased his investment.  Maybe not at the time of initial purchase but in the months/years following.  That probably made us more attractive as in our case it already in place, just needs to be maintained.  To use his car analogy, for us, he doesn’t need to buy the car, just keep it serviced.

So why didn't he just say that?

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Interesting interview with Garry Cook from back in January if anyone wants it.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vVEFNQzE5NzkwMDE4NTk/episode/MTE5ODdmYmMtNmFmOC0xMWVjLThkNWYtOGYyYTI0YzNmNWY2?ep=14

Talks about Derby for the last 6 mins or so.

I still can't someone with Cook's career and reputation working with Kirchner if the guy wasn't serious.

Well it's costing Cook nothing atm. He's not had a proper football job for quite some time has he?