I think Derby can stay up

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

32 minutes ago, Ramley Apple said:

If you want to indulge yourself with silly fantasies about us getting enough points to remain in this league then fine. You do you. But I think ultimately that's self-defeating.

I hope whoever is still running things at the club is rather more perspicacious.

 

 

[Ramley Apple]

3 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

 

 

I mean it's not in my nature to do anything other than like a post including Blackadder GIFs

However, perspicacious is actually a word

[Caerphilly Ram]

12 minutes ago, Ramley Apple said:

There are many things in life which are mathematically possible but are also so unlikely as to make anyone believing in them rightly subject to ridicule.

If you want to believe we can stay up then as I've said, fine that's up to you. But I think that's pure fantasy personally. What I want the club to be focusing on is life in League One next season because barring a miracle that's where we will be. And we need to make sure we shore up because it's not beyond the realms of possibility we could slip further down into League Two with all of these sanctions.

I'm not ant-hope, it's just that pragmatism is more helpful at this point.

I don’t agree that people are open to ridicule, I don’t see the need to attack anyone for thinking differently. I do agree that we’re all entitled to our opinion and share yours that we should be pragmatic in our preparations for next season.
It is possible to attempt to gain as many points as possible this season and to shape the squad for next season potentially in league one  (if we get new owners and the so and so’s at the EFL allow us to) at the same time right? If we can negotiate new contracts with some of our current crop, move on them that don’t want to be here and ideally add one or two good prospects from lower leagues/Scotland/the existing pool of free transfers currently available (Andre Wisdom anyone?) whilst going down with a fight, bloodying the noses of a few teams on the way OR even pulling off the miraculous and staying up with the basis of a squad to build on further in the summer.

If we are to get relegated going down with some winning momentum and not with a whimper will help for next season too right? 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Caerphilly Ram

[Comrade 86]

11 minutes ago, Ramley Apple said:

There are many things in life which are mathematically possible but are also so unlikely as to make anyone believing in them rightly subject to ridicule.

If you want to believe we can stay up then as I've said, fine that's up to you. But I think that's pure fantasy personally. What I want the club to be focusing on is life in League One next season because barring a miracle that's where we will be. And we need to make sure we shore up because it's not beyond the realms of possibility we could slip further down into League Two with all of these sanctions.

I'm not ant-hope, it's just that pragmatism is more helpful at this point.

How exactly does a fan refusing to give up the dream preclude those running the club being 'pragmatic'. That's a really poo excuse for a series of really poo posts.

If you really feel the need to piss on people's chips, crack on sunshine, but don't try to pretend your scorn for fellow fans serves any purpose other than self-aggrandisement, because it really doesn't. 

[Ramley Apple]

14 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I don’t agree that people are open to ridicule, I don’t see the need to attack anyone for thinking differently. I do agree that we’re all entitled to our opinion and share yours that we should be pragmatic in our preparations for next season.
It is possible to attempt to gain as many points as possible this season and to shape the squad for next season potentially in league one  (if we get new owners and the so and so’s at the EFL allow us to) at the same time right? If we can negotiate new contracts with some of our current crop, move on them that don’t want to be here and ideally add one or two good prospects from lower leagues/Scotland/the existing pool of free transfers currently available (Andre Wisdom anyone?) whilst going down with a fight, bloodying the noses of a few teams on the way OR even pulling off the miraculous and staying up with the basis of a squad to build on further in the summer.

If we are to get relegated going down with some winning momentum and not with a whimper will help for next season too right? 

Sorry but I can't agree. I think anyone is, and should be, open to ridicule. Particularly if they hold, and put forth, an opinion that is contrary to all available evidence.

But I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, OK I used the word "blind" which was perhaps rather harsh, and I apologise for any offence caused, but we are posting on a thread entitled "I think Derby can stay up" here. Which in my mind is ridiculous. And so I called it out as such.

As I said, if you honestly believe we can stay up then that's fine, and perhaps I need to acquire some similar unfounded optimism from somewhere, but as yet it eludes me.

[Caerphilly Ram]

18 minutes ago, Ramley Apple said:

Sorry but I can't agree. I think anyone is, and should be, open to ridicule. Particularly if they hold, and put forth, an opinion that is contrary to all available evidence.

But I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, OK I used the word "blind" which was perhaps rather harsh, and I apologise for any offence caused, but we are posting on a thread entitled "I think Derby can stay up" here. Which in my mind is ridiculous. And so I called it out as such.

As I said, if you honestly believe we can stay up then that's fine, and perhaps I need to acquire some similar unfounded optimism from somewhere, but as yet it eludes me.

But by your own statement you yourself are ignoring a piece of evidence are you not? There are still enough points to play for that could mean we stay up. That’s a fact. Whether it’s likely or not is the opinion part.
We both agree it’s unlikely, I will say my optimism isn’t unfounded, it is based on the very clear fact that there are still points to play for.
The realistic stance I have is that we will probably come up short, based on the history of other teams with points deductions, the potential limitations of the squad, the stats behind our performances already this season and so on. I’m just choosing to look for the positives, however small as I feel there is a lot else to feel miserable about in the world. We’ve got different opinions, nothing wrong with that, you’ve got your rationale and I’ve got mine, hope is a dangerous thing. Maybe a counter thread for anyone less than optimistic is needed? ? 

We’re all Derby and want the club to still be around in the future, that’s what matters the most, thanks for the debate ? 

[Oldben]

It is my hope that the phrase "doing a leeds", doesn't get changed to "doing a Derby".

Derby already have the record for lowest points tally for a season in the Premier league.

Leeds has 3 years in League one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doing_a_Leeds

I'm not under the illusion that the current team as it stands will have an easy ride in League one.

The club must strengthen, it requires a new owner. 

It requires a great scout network to acquire the best players from league one, why from league one? What top championship players would wish to play for Derby in League.

The issue if the clubs in League one will also be one of money because the best players in league one generally play for the best teams in League one and those teams are unlikely to let their best players go cheap.

Yet Derby will need those kind of players, with any new players i think, the club needs to say that they are rebuilding the club and the players are not just for a season but that new players could easily make the step up and play at the top of the championship.

I don't mind if that means that Derby pays the highest salaries in the Championship, in fact, I want that because it will attract the best players.

If it annoys the league one teams that Derby poached their best players, I'm OK with that. For years, derbys best players have been sold to cover debts and those players in many instances have not been replaced by the best players.

I also want a youth scouting network as I want Derby to poach the best youth players from the lower leagues.

I keep reading about Derby losing our best youth players to other clubs, I want to see that stopped.

 

 

 

[Tamworthram]

8 hours ago, Ramley Apple said:

There are many things in life which are mathematically possible but are also so unlikely as to make anyone believing they will happen rightly subject to ridicule.

If you want to believe we can stay up then as I've said, fine that's up to you. But I think that's pure fantasy personally. What I want the club to be focusing on is life in League One next season because barring a miracle that's where we will be. And we need to make sure we shore up because it's not beyond the realms of possibility we could slip further down into League Two with all of these sanctions.

I'm not anti-hope, it's just that pragmatism is more helpful at this point.

I think you’re confusing what we think we CAN achieve with what we think we WILL achieve.

Apart from a very limited number of people like yourself, I don’t think fans on this forum, the players or Rooney are being ridiculed for believing there is still a chance however slim that chance is and your comment that it’s laughably is somewhat offensive to all of the above.

The fact is that there is still a chance. The reality is that hope is vanishingly small which I’m pretty sure 99.9% of us accept. I don’t know why you can’t see that but instead post antagonist comments. The fact that some are working out how many wins we need or how points per game are required doesn’t mean they think we’ll achieve it. if anything, it’s quite the opposite and only go to highlight how improbable it is.

[Tombo]

It got a lot harder after this weekend. 19 points from safety with 26 games to play. It's not early season anymore, we're running out of games.

Not to be doom or gloom, but that's where we are. It needs to be a long streak of wins to get us back into sensible points difference territory. Average 2 points a game or thereabouts.

[Maharan]

1 minute ago, Tombo said:

It got a lot harder after this weekend. 19 points from safety with 26 games to play. It's not early season anymore, we're running out of games.

Not to be doom or gloom, but that's where we are. It needs to be a long streak of wins to get us back into sensible points difference territory. Average 2 points a game or thereabouts.

Yeah, I can't see it happening to be honest. I tend to lean towards the less optimistic side, but must admit I tend not to vocalise it much because I can tell others are of a different mind, and that's fine. We're all wired differently I guess. 

[sawley_ram]

Looking at it very simply, we've just played the current top three teams one after the other. Considering our position and our shortage of players in certain areas, taking 4 points from a possible 9 is still very good. I'm disappointed we let that late goal in but in hindsight all three goals last night were excellent -- QPR were just the better side and that's why they're 3rd in the division.

It's still doable, I'm not writing it off this side of Christmas.

Onto the next game!

 

[cheron85]

9 hours ago, Ramley Apple said:

Sorry but I can't agree. I think anyone is, and should be, open to ridicule. Particularly if they hold, and put forth, an opinion that is contrary to all available evidence.

People's openness to ridicule should be defined by themselves, not by others - If people come here to express serious opinions (whether you agree with them or not) ridiculing them is disrespectful and rude

Personally I think we're going down and have been for a while - We're a good defensive side but the stat which is killing us is being 22nd in the league for goals scored - If you can't score enough goals you can't win games

That said - I respect the people who hold out faith - In a lot of ways they're much better people than I am and I wish I held more of their positivity.

Worth a thought that in 19 out of our 20 league games this season a single goal would have changed the result... Assuming an average goals scored tally so far (24ish), a striker to provide those 7 goals and an even distribution of those goals across our games we'd be around 10 points better off - It's not completely unreasonable to suggest we're a 15 goal a season striker away from being able to give survival a really good go

Not that I actually think it's going to happen - Just saying it's not as cut and dried as you suggest 

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

Players have to go into every match believing they will get 3points. Play every game with the intention of winning. If the team can go on a three or four game winning streak then it’s going to feel do able. Don’t think it will happen and the team will end up 10 points short or something. But that’s just a prediction. The players must believe it’s possible. Play to win every match. There will be a lot of open matches this season as Derby go for wins late on. 

[BramcoteRam84]

Our chances have not got any worse after one set of results. But it underlines the significant challenge we have to survive given we’ve had a reasonable week against the three best teams in the league right now and we’re further away from safety. But another week of results and the picture could change.

No one is kidding themselves. Our chances of staying up are not nil, but they are 5-10% tops. If they were nil the bookies wouldn’t be offering 11/2. It will depend on a few different things, the most critical being a new owner and a business plan which enables us to get some fresh blood into this team, and at some point we will need a streak of wins to get us back into contention.

Fact is we need playoff form from here on and currently we have bottom 6 form. But there is personal pride at stake for the players and pride for us as fans to go down fighting and stick two fingers up to the league, a strong second half of the season under a new owner could be critical to enable us to hit the ground running next season in league one if we don’t achieve the miracle and survive. 
 

There is still lots to play for and while last night was a kick in the guts, it was a reasonable performance and I’m happy with what the team is serving up right now. Just enjoy the games and don’t look at the league table!! 

[StantonRam]

1 hour ago, sawley_ram said:

Looking at it very simply, we've just played the current top three teams one after the other. Considering our position and our shortage of players in certain areas, taking 4 points from a possible 9 is still very good. I'm disappointed we let that late goal in but in hindsight all three goals last night were excellent -- QPR were just the better side and that's why they're 3rd in the division.

It's still doable, I'm not writing it off this side of Christmas.

Onto the next game!

 

Couldn't agree more.  The strategy last night was the right one IMO because a point solves nothing.  Far better to gamble, go for it and try for the 3 points.  Sometimes, as last night, it won't pay off, but sometimes it will.

Just keep doing that and sooner or later we will string some wins together.  12 wins from 24 games would put us in with a shout, and then it would all be down to the last 2 games, do or die, death or glory, play a 2-3-5 formation like in 1921 etc LOL, and possibly goal difference, goals scored etc.  The last day, in that scenario, will be just as nail bitingly delicious as it was in May.

One thing's for sure, it's going to be a feast of genuine, attack minded footie with NO FEAR for the next 6 months.  The worst has already happened, we are all but down in the minds of most people, and that can work to our advantage, as we saw against Bournemouth.

I for one am looking forward to 26 fearless games played by a squad that's absolutely together and scrapping for each other and the manager and the club.  And in some ways, that's actually more exciting than watching a side that's safely mid table, cruising, and often playing out a game boringly to snatch a point.

And if they DO pull it off, against all the odds, there's a movie in that for sure, in which case where can I buy the film rights? LOL.

[kingsy1884]

I think many people saw these 3 games and thought we would be blown away and would be sat still on -ve points.

4 points from 9 against 2/3 teams laden with cash and Premier league quality is a very good achievement. Yet we still are further away from surviving than we were 3 games ago.

We need to show the same intensity and belief against the so called 'lesser' teams in the league now. That's the hardest part no more results like the Barnsley one.

If we can get a new owner confirmed before Xmas and realistically in by mid/end Jan we may stand a chance with a few extra bodies who want to prove themselves.

We just need to stay within throwing distance until then.

Edited November 30, 2021 by kingsy1884

[Ram-Alf]

12 hours ago, Ramley Apple said:

I mean it's not in my nature to do anything other than like a post including Blackadder GIFs

However, perspicacious is actually a word

A know it all then ?

[sage]

Some very cynical, negative people on here.

Next you will be saying Santa doesn't exist.

The fact that i stopped receiving Christmas presents when my parents died is just a co-incidence.

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, sage said:

Some very cynical, negative people on here.

Next you will be saying Santa doesn't exist.

The fact that i stopped receiving Christmas presents when my parents died is just a co-incidence.

Aww mate.  That is so sad.  I'm truly sorry to read that, and in all honesty, it's brought a tear to my eye.

...I just can't believe you think some on here are cynical!  

[Premier ram]

17 hours ago, Ramley Apple said:

Sorry but I can't agree. I think anyone is, and should be, open to ridicule. Particularly if they hold, and put forth, an opinion that is contrary to all available evidence.

But I'm not trying to ridicule anyone, OK I used the word "blind" which was perhaps rather harsh, and I apologise for any offence caused, but we are posting on a thread entitled "I think Derby can stay up" here. Which in my mind is ridiculous. And so I called it out as such.

As I said, if you honestly believe we can stay up then that's fine, and perhaps I need to acquire some similar unfounded optimism from somewhere, but as yet it eludes me.

      Come on boys , you really are giving everything to this cause , proud to be a Ram