G STAR RAM Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 49 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Without giving the game away, do the pairs surnames rhyme with Ram it Hard and Glory Hole? Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipley Ram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Ambitious said: We should and will pay the HMRC what we owe them. Payment terms will obviously be negotiated, but we shouldn't be allowed to spend money on transfers until that debt is settled. It goes without saying IMO. I don't want the prospective owners or administrators to try and shy away from paying, what is essence public money, because we've been ran by a clown. My problem with this is that every club that has previously gone into admin has paid HMRC a fraction of what they owe, in Leeds case about 8%. If HMRC decided they want 100% in future from fooballl clubs in can decide that, but I will be furious if they demanded 100 % from us to teach football a lesson and then settled for less in future. Kathcairns 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverurie Ram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Sing up! I closed my eyes, drew back the curtain To see for certain, what I thought I knew Far, far away, someone was weeping, But the world was sleeping Any deal will do I wore my coat, with golden lining Bright colours shining, wonderful and new And in the east, the dawn was breaking And the world was waking Any deal will do A crash of drums A flash of light My golden coat, flew out of sight The colours faded into darkness I was left alone May I return to the beginning? The light is dimming, and the deal is too The world and I, we are still waiting Still hesitating Any deal will do (Any deal will do) A crash of drums A flash of light My golden coat, flew out of sight The colours faded into darkness I was left alone May I return to the beginning? The light is dimming, and the deal is too The world and I, we are still waiting Still hesitating Any deal will do (Any deal, any deal, any deal, any deal will do) (Any deal, any deal, any deal, any deal will do) (Any deal, any deal any deal, any deal will do) angieram, Steve How Hard? and Miggins 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, Shipley Ram said: My problem with this is that every club that has previously gone into admin has paid HMRC a fraction of what they owe, in Leeds case about 8%. If HMRC decided they want 100% in future from fooballl clubs in can decide that, but I will be furious if they demanded 100 % from us to teach football a lesson and then settled for less in future. This article makes interesting reading:- https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2120024/amp/Football-clubs-administration-owe-taxman-40m-written-debts.html Leeds United, whose chairman Ken Bates is a Monaco-based tax exile, has paid just £154,000 of the £7.7million it owes in tax, according to the papers. Portsmouth, whose former manager Harry Redknapp was cleared of tax evasion last month, has an outstanding HMRC debt of £17.2million. And Darlington Football Club has settled just £36 of a £404,376 tax demand. The figures appear in documents submitted to the High Court by lawyers acting for HMRC in a landmark case it has brought against the Football League. They show that football clubs in financial trouble have cost the taxpayer nearly £40million since 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Just now, Shipley Ram said: My problem with this is that every club that has previously gone into admin has paid HMRC a fraction of what they owe, in Leeds case about 8%. If HMRC decided they want 100% in future from fooballl clubs in can decide that, but I will be furious if they demanded 100 % from us to teach football a lesson and then settled for less in future. I believe that's why the HMRC pushed so much for the change so that they are entitled to their money. It's not about teaching us a lesson, honestly Mel Morris knew what he was doing when he stopped paying the HMRC and using them as a free-interest credit facility. I would also wager that he knew exactly the possible outcome of said debt when the chickens come home to roost. He acted ignorant to the ramifications in his last interview, but anyone with half a brain knowing what was going on behind the scenes knew what was going on. We're only finding out now about decisions that were made by the previous owner that were undoubtedly made regardless to the determinantal to the long-term effect of the club. The non-payment to the HMRC being the standard of just how low he was willing to stoop in order to rid himself of any responsibility. RAM1966, atherstoneram and Derby4Me 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: Bury did go into administration https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11774/12144311/bury-fc-placed-into-administration-as-battle-for-existence-continues But that was after the failed winding up order. Same with us . HMRC issued a winding up order for Derby in January 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 2 hours ago, jono said: You are totally right. HMRC could ask for us to be liquidated tomorrow .. They won’t because they stand to get nothing if that happens. Their job is to get as much money for the taxpayer as they can. They need us sold so they can recover something @jimtastic56.. I don’t quite understand the tear emoji ? .. we are where we are, I think the dire situation almost helps in terms of the HMRC debt. If we had assets that could easily turned in to cash, the HMRC would simply have to push for liquidation.. it’s their job .. But as there is little of monetary value they won’t .. it helps us in a bizarre way Carnero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Ambitious said: We should and will pay the HMRC what we owe them. Payment terms will obviously be negotiated, but we shouldn't be allowed to spend money on transfers until that debt is settled. It goes without saying IMO. I don't want the prospective owners or administrators to try and shy away from paying, what is essence public money, because we've been ran by a clown. If we aren't viable with the HMRC debt then we aren't viable... unfortunately, it's got to be that cut and dry. People with money know what a viable deal for Derby County looks like and we just have to see if that's going to be the case. Derbys administration is no different to any other football administration in that HMRC will get a share of what is available. They will probably get a bigger share than the rest of the unsecured creditors due to their new found preferred status. I very much doubt that will be 100%. The timeline , in case you forget is that COVID happened in march 2020. The authorities decided players should carry on playing , so they needed to be paid their wages, but there was little or no income coming in. The football authorities applied for help from the Government but that was refused, wrongly in my view. Instead they sough help from Premier league all they got was a loan and even that Derby were deemed not eligible for. So I'm not surprised that Derby cannot afford to pay HMRC. Thats no-one's fault but the Government's fault and they are the ones now claiming money. They are on dodgy moral grounds to say the least. Edited December 20, 2021 by PistoldPete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: But that was after the failed winding up order. Same with us . HMRC issued a winding up order for Derby in January 2020. Doesn't matter when they went into administration and was in the same position we now find ourselves in,yes we might well have 2 or 3 interested parties taking the club on but if we can't come to a satisfactory CVA regarding the outstanding debts with parties concerned we could finish up in the same position. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Derbys administration is no different to any other football administration in that HMRC will get a share of what is available. They will probably get a bigger share than the rest of the unsecured creditors due to their new found preferred status. I very much doubt that will be 100%. The timeline , in case you forget is that COVID happened in march 2020. The authorities decided players should carry on playing , so they needed to be paid their wages, but there was little or no income coming in. The football authorities applied for help from the Government but that was refused, wrongly in my view. Instead they sough help from Premier league all they got was a loan and even that Derby were deemed not eligible for. So I'm not surprised that Derby cannot afford to pay HMRC. Thats no-one's fault but the Government's fault and they are the ones now claiming money. They are on dodgy moral grounds to say the least. That's just your view that the government was wrong not to get involved. In my view the government aren't to blame for our current position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 18 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Derby's administration is no different to any other football administration in that HMRC will get a share of what is available. They will probably get a bigger share than the rest of the unsecured creditors due to their new found preferred status. I very much doubt that will be 100%. Or any other business administration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: Derbys administration is no different to any other football administration in that HMRC will get a share of what is available. They will probably get a bigger share than the rest of the unsecured creditors due to their new found preferred status. I very much doubt that will be 100%. The timeline , in case you forget is that COVID happened in march 2020. The authorities decided players should carry on playing , so they needed to be paid their wages, but there was little or no income coming in. The football authorities applied for help from the Government but that was refused, wrongly in my view. Instead they sough help from Premier league all they got was a loan and even that Derby were deemed not eligible for. So I'm not surprised that Derby cannot afford to pay HMRC. Thats no-one's fault but the Government's fault and they are the ones now claiming money. They are on dodgy moral grounds to say the least. Doesn’t the HMRC debt precede covid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 53 minutes ago, Boycie said: I see the minutes have been put on hold again? Another secretary not good with dictation? jono 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Minutes just released. Don’t know how to put them in here though ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 https://www.dcfcbawt.org/post/full-minutes-from-supporters-group-meeting-15-12-21?fbclid=IwAR3kz2nsFhK5u86oHv8oqUxXYgdhzYDgUSA3SS1WFW1EJMetugihIAJ3JdY Derby4Me and Miggins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Now February… just keep putting it back RAM1966 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Topram said: Now February… just keep putting it back Ambitious = unrealistic? atherstoneram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eccles the ram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Now saying February and a sale ' before the end of the season'. WTF? I know its going to take time but this is getting ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bald Eagle's Barmy Army Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I’d rather it be February than not at all and I’d rather wait a little longer if it means the right bidder is chosen. People need to realise this process isn’t as simple as picking a name out of a hat. Crewton, Premier ram, Derby4Me and 3 others 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harwich ram Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 So looking at mid Feb so transfer window is a no go for players we need in then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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