Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Shipley Ram]

Was there a secret clause in the agreement saying we could have penalties again?

[kevinhectoring]

5 hours ago, Indy said:

Administrators on Radio Derby drawing a distinction between an embargo and a business plan. Sounded more positive. 

Yes the SBW podcast was massively confusing on this 

[Leeds Ram]

41 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

No , but according to your post "the equivalent would be if you'd racked up a load of debt by extravagant spending and had a large mortgage that you were struggling to afford to pay as it was, then you lost your job and it all went south".

We didn't have a load of debt or a large mortgage before the equivalent catastrophe of losing our revenue. Only debts were soft loans to Mel... unless you count money owed on the Beilik transfer maybe but that was payable by instalments.     

and the HMRC debt? Has all that been accumulated since March 2020?  The mortgage analogy is the cost of running the club that Morris almost completely mismanaged. 

[angieram]

I probably won't get an objective response to this, as everyone is too busy trying to apportion blame, BUT....

Firstly I wonder how many clubs are actually solvent at any moment in time if you stopped and took a snapshot of their situation? I would imagine quite a lot of championship  clubs are similar, with either owner equity or parachute payments being the only thing keeping their heads above water.

Secondly I am quite disappointed to see the range of outgoings for all sorts of things that maybe aren't strictly necessary for the everyday running of a football club. I've had a feeling for a long time some things at Derby aren't done in the most cost-effective way.

I hope when the new owners come in someone examines all the things we do that maybe we could stop or do differently. 

Why on earth our previous owner wasn't doing that, I don't know, but I get the impression that there was a "money no object" mentality that pervaded the club at all levels. 

 

[Tyler Durden]

[Indy]

42 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

Yes the SBW podcast was massively confusing on this 

Was on the pre match show on radio Derby between 11 and 11:30. Should be on iPlayer or the Sounds app?

[Ramarena]

40 minutes ago, angieram said:

I probably won't get an objective response to this, as everyone is too busy trying to apportion blame, BUT....

Firstly I wonder how many clubs are actually solvent at any moment in time if you stopped and took a snapshot of their situation? I would imagine quite a lot of championship  clubs are similar, with either owner equity or parachute payments being the only thing keeping their heads above water.

Secondly I am quite disappointed to see the range of outgoings for all sorts of things that maybe aren't strictly necessary for the everyday running of a football club. I've had a feeling for a long time some things at Derby aren't done in the most cost-effective way.

I hope when the new owners come in someone examines all the things we do that maybe we could stop or do differently. 

Why on earth our previous owner wasn't doing that, I don't know, but I get the impression that there was a "money no object" mentality that pervaded the club at all levels. 

 

Yep a number of clubs in this division are fly close to the wind. With, as you say, parachute payments or owners papering over the cracks. Part of the problem is the unfair playing field the mixture of parachute payments and FFP have created, also the lack of tough punishment for those that game the system and get promoted……..only those that fail seem to receive a significant punishment.

On the latter there were clearly spending problems within the club. Pearce should have been on top of that, but it could be due to Mels direction that things were allowed to get that way. Both culpable!

The administrators will have already started the process of reducing costs, we’ve already seen redundancies and more will have happened in the background. 

Any new owners should be taking over a relatively lean ship so to speak. With any new owners able to scale up, or down spending in areas they feel necessary.

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

and the HMRC debt? Has all that been accumulated since March 2020?  The mortgage analogy is the cost of running the club that Morris almost completely mismanaged. 

An HMRC debt was cleared in January 2020 I believe. Of the £26 million PAYE debt now outstanding I believe the vast bulk of it built up since the pandemic.

[I know nuffin]

Kind of relivant. People are going on about how much tax we owe but didn't the government give business longer to pay so the debt would have been racking up but not actually due. Just a thought and with my track record wrong. We the rest of the debt list the cold figures tell things but not everything. Again many posters appear to think everything should have been paid for. Taking an example was the ambulance debt current debt due to be paid (not that we could) or historic debt that should have been paid some time ago. The figures don't tell you that just that we were not in a position to pay much. That 20 million list due to covid would have helped a lot

[PistoldPete]

27 minutes ago, I know nuffin said:

Kind of relivant. People are going on about how much tax we owe but didn't the government give business longer to pay so the debt would have been racking up but not actually due. Just a thought and with my track record wrong. We the rest of the debt list the cold figures tell things but not everything. Again many posters appear to think everything should have been paid for. Taking an example was the ambulance debt current debt due to be paid (not that we could) or historic debt that should have been paid some time ago. The figures don't tell you that just that we were not in a position to pay much. That 20 million list due to covid would have helped a lot

In the summer Morris either had to sell the club or sell some players. He wasn't able to do either. The only offer we got I think was pathetic offer from Forest for Buchanan. So we just ran out of road.

[r_wilcockson]

Just perusing the BBC website whilst on my lunch break. I've become accustomed to going into the comments section on Derby articles and seeing comments in the mindset of "you deserve it" and the general laughing at us and no one liking Derby etc. Whereas after the result yesterday it's full of comments from people wishing us well and hoping we pull off the great escape (even from Forest fans!).

Hopefully us "taking our medicine" as some like to call it, looking to repair relations with the EFL and other clubs and showing fighting spirit starts to get us back on the road to where we were in 2013/14 as being everyone's second favourite team.

I know you don't get extra points for being likeable, but I've grown sick and tired of the mocking comments and ill-will over the last few years.

[Maharan]

18 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

An HMRC debt was cleared in January 2020 I believe. Of the £26 million PAYE debt now outstanding I believe the vast bulk of it built up since the pandemic.

That feels like a lot of PAYE debt to rack up in 20 odd months. Is that right? Genuine question, cos I've got no idea. 

[Mick Harford]

21 minutes ago, r_wilcockson said:

Just perusing the BBC website whilst on my lunch break. I've become accustomed to going into the comments section on Derby articles and seeing comments in the mindset of "you deserve it" and the general laughing at us and no one liking Derby etc. Whereas after the result yesterday it's full of comments from people wishing us well and hoping we pull off the great escape (even from Forest fans!).

Hopefully us "taking our medicine" as some like to call it, looking to repair relations with the EFL and other clubs and showing fighting spirit starts to get us back on the road to where we were in 2013/14 as being everyone's second favourite team.

I know you don't get extra points for being likeable, but I've grown sick and tired of the mocking comments and ill-will over the last few years.

 

I noticed that yesterday as well, also on the Guardian btl section, quite refreshing to see some fans realising that us Rams fans have suffered from something that was totally beyond our control as normally, as you say, it's variations of 'you deserve it' 'disgusting club' and Leeds fans having a go at Frank Lampard.

I should turn the other cheek, but I am a petty and vindictive man, so am quite looking forward to some other clubs getting shafted due to their owners actions in the coming years.

[Kingpin]

8 hours ago, r_wilcockson said:

I've grown sick and tired of the mocking comments and ill-will over the last few years.

Toughen up???. 

[CBRammette]

8 hours ago, r_wilcockson said:

Just perusing the BBC website whilst on my lunch break. I've become accustomed to going into the comments section on Derby articles and seeing comments in the mindset of "you deserve it" and the general laughing at us and no one liking Derby etc. Whereas after the result yesterday it's full of comments from people wishing us well and hoping we pull off the great escape (even from Forest fans!).

Hopefully us "taking our medicine" as some like to call it, looking to repair relations with the EFL and other clubs and showing fighting spirit starts to get us back on the road to where we were in 2013/14 as being everyone's second favourite team.

I know you don't get extra points for being likeable, but I've grown sick and tired of the mocking comments and ill-will over the last few years.

Yes I noticed that over weekend - the narrative seems to have changed towards us in media as well. Suspect most other reasonable fans could always separate the mismanagement from the club itself/fans but after whipping up the narrative against us for the last two years most media outlets can just do one.
 

Having said that nice little interview with Curtis at about 20.55 this evening at end of Monday night football on 5 live - not sure if on iplayer or BBC sounds still

[Hordh]

On 21/11/2021 at 19:46, PistoldPete said:

In the summer Morris either had to sell the club or sell some players. He wasn't able to do either. The only offer we got I think was pathetic offer from Forest for Buchanan. So we just ran out of road.

That's what happens when you are a distressed seller. Has happened to many clubs before. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

Seeing as we might have assumed zero points from last two matches, you could make an argument that the players/coaches have reduced the penalty from 9 to 5 points.

[Zag zig]

14 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

Seeing as we might have assumed zero points from last two matches, you could make an argument that the players/coaches have reduced the penalty from 9 to 5 points.

If we somehow pull off a footballing miracle, there will be a few arguing it wasn’t enough.

Win against QPR and blind faith, might just turn into you never know.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Zag zig

[Sparkle]

I stuck a fiver on an away win at 10-1 and a fiver on draw at 5-1 - stuff the bookies 

[angieram]

Feels like I am going over old ground a bit now as we withdrew our appeal against the administration points deduction, but the latest report submitted by the administrators at companies House states our matchday income pre-pandemic at c. 54% of our income.

We knew that percentage was higher than other clubs, but that is huge.