Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[GboroRam]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

The moral thing to do would be to pay any remaining debts in full if he can. We don’t know whether he can or not . You are speculating.
 

gambling with money we don’t have is what everyone with a mortgage does. Are we all immoral? 

But what happens if you don't pay your mortgage? Does the rest of the street end up homeless?

[PistoldPete]

Just now, GboroRam said:

But what happens if you don't pay your mortgage? Does the rest of the street end up homeless?

No but your kids might. 

[Rev]

11 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

gambling with money we don’t have is what everyone with a mortgage does. Are we all immoral? 

This may be the worst analogy I've seen on this forum so far.

No one takes on a mortgage as a gamble, it's a long term investment of low risk for both the borrower and the lender, and the basis of our home owning society.

Mel's done the opposite, gambled with money he does have, then walked away to let taxpayers, businesses and quite shamefully, in my opinion, two different ambulance services bear the pain, one state owned, one a charity ffs.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Rev

[Yani P]

And he is probably sat there with well in excess of half a billion to soothe his ego..

[kevinhectoring]

On 18/11/2021 at 09:41, StarterForTen said:

How can it be a business plan for exiting Administration when we haven't exited Administration? That's how I KNOW it's not a business plan for exiting Administration.

All clubs exiting Administration are subject to an EFL business plan but, as I wrote, I have no idea how strict that might be.

If we have a new owner who has demonstrated he can finance the existing business plan, why would another be required ?

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, Rev said:

This may be the worst analogy I've seen on this forum so far.

No one takes on a mortgage as a gamble, it's a long term investment of low risk for both the borrower and the lender, and the basis of our home owning society.

Mel's done the opposite, gambled with money he does have, then walked away to let taxpayers, businesses and quite shamefully, in my opinion, two different ambulance services bear the pain, one state owned, one a charity ffs.

This may be the worst exaggeration Ive seen on this forum ever.

A mortgage is a gamble that you can afford to take on a debt and repay it from your income. If your income stops with no support from the Government you may struggle to service the loan and you may lose your home. There are warnings to that effect when people take out mortgages , yet still they do it and still some people lose their homes. If they were self employed there may be HMRC debts owing as well.  Were they immoral or just unlucky? Or unwise maybe, at worst?The days when debtors were sent to jail have long gone you know.

In the Rams case, Morris believed that the  income from Derby's loyal fan base was secure, and built his financial plans on that. Call that  a gamble if you like but i would say Derby's ticket income is  probably normally more secure than any salaried income, so less of a gamble to rely on that to cover our costs than to rely on your salary to pay a mortgage.

Yet what happened with the pandemic was unprecedented in history. Revenue of £20 million lost in an 18 month period. And no support from the Governnment despite it being the Government that ordered the closure of stadia. And who is our biggest creditor? A Government agency, HMRC! And who apart from the players and their agents was the biggest beneficary of Morris high spending years? HMRC. 

I think if Morris can afford to pay the debts, he should from a moral point of view. Otherwise, HMRC as a Government agency is in no position to play the morality card, and in any case it is clear Derby cannot afford to pay without external help.  

As we don't know whether he can or cannot afford to pay the debts, (and never will know as the force majeure appeal was never heard) I am not willing to make any personal attacks on his morality, or signify my "contempt" for him. Especially as according to Gboro "personal attacks" are against forum rules.  In my book calling people immoral when you do not know the facts to support such a claim is a personal attack.

  

[Indy]

Administrators on Radio Derby drawing a distinction between an embargo and a business plan. Sounded more positive. 

[Tyler Durden]

2 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

This may be the worst exaggeration Ive seen on this forum ever.

A mortgage is a gamble that you can afford to take on a debt and repay it from your income. If your income stops with no support from the Government you may struggle to service the loan and you may lose your home. There are warnings to that effect when people take out mortgages , yet still they do it and still some people lose their homes. If they were self employed there may be HMRC debts owing as well.  Were they immoral or just unlucky? Or unwise maybe, at worst?The days when debtors were sent to jail have long gone you know.

In the Rams case, Morris believed that the  income from Derby's loyal fan base was secure, and built his financial plans on that. Call that  a gamble if you like but i would say Derby's ticket income is  probably normally more secure than any salaried income, so less of a gamble to rely on that to cover our costs than to rely on your salary to pay a mortgage.

Yet what happened with the pandemic was unprecedented in history. Revenue of £20 million lost in an 18 month period. And no support from the Governnment despite it being the Government that ordered the closure of stadia. And who is our biggest creditor? A Government agency, HMRC! And who apart from the players and their agents was the biggest beneficary of Morris high spending years? HMRC. 

I think if Morris can afford to pay the debts, he should from a moral point of view. Otherwise, HMRC as a Government agency is in no position to play the morality card, and in any case it is clear Derby cannot afford to pay without external help.  

As we don't know whether he can or cannot afford to pay the debts, (and never will know as the force majeure appeal was never heard) I am not willing to make any personal attacks on his morality, or signify my "contempt" for him. Especially as according to Gboro "personal attacks" are against forum rules.  In my book calling people immoral when you do not know the facts to support such a claim is a personal attack.

  

Its not, believe me. Credit to that has got to be the thread started espousing it was the fans fault we are currently in our dire predicament.

I'd send you a link to it but quite correctly it was shut down by the mods after a couple of hours.

[Leeds Ram]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

This may be the worst exaggeration Ive seen on this forum ever.

A mortgage is a gamble that you can afford to take on a debt and repay it from your income. If your income stops with no support from the Government you may struggle to service the loan and you may lose your home. There are warnings to that effect when people take out mortgages , yet still they do it and still some people lose their homes. If they were self employed there may be HMRC debts owing as well.  Were they immoral or just unlucky? Or unwise maybe, at worst?The days when debtors were sent to jail have long gone you know.

In the Rams case, Morris believed that the  income from Derby's loyal fan base was secure, and built his financial plans on that. Call that  a gamble if you like but i would say Derby's ticket income is  probably normally more secure than any salaried income, so less of a gamble to rely on that to cover our costs than to rely on your salary to pay a mortgage.

Yet what happened with the pandemic was unprecedented in history. Revenue of £20 million lost in an 18 month period. And no support from the Governnment despite it being the Government that ordered the closure of stadia. And who is our biggest creditor? A Government agency, HMRC! And who apart from the players and their agents was the biggest beneficary of Morris high spending years? HMRC. 

I think if Morris can afford to pay the debts, he should from a moral point of view. Otherwise, HMRC as a Government agency is in no position to play the morality card, and in any case it is clear Derby cannot afford to pay without external help.  

As we don't know whether he can or cannot afford to pay the debts, (and never will know as the force majeure appeal was never heard) I am not willing to make any personal attacks on his morality, or signify my "contempt" for him. Especially as according to Gboro "personal attacks" are against forum rules.  In my book calling people immoral when you do not know the facts to support such a claim is a personal attack.

  

The equivalent would be if you'd racked up a load of debt by extravagant spending and had a large mortgage that you were struggling to afford to pay as it was, then you lost your job and it all went south. Now, some people do do that but you'd usually say they were irresponsible and shouldn't be so silly. But that's usually a private affair that the family may admonish the responsible party for, but the difference is Mel did this with an institution almost 140 years old, an institution vital to the lifeblood of the city that it resides in that have had generations contributing to and being a part of. It's nothing short of an absolute disgrace that it's led to all of this. 

[GboroRam]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The equivalent would be if you'd racked up a load of debt by extravagant spending and had a large mortgage that you were struggling to afford to pay as it was, then you lost your job and it all went south. Now, some people do do that but you'd usually say they were irresponsible and shouldn't be so silly. But that's usually a private affair that the family may admonish the responsible party for, but the difference is Mel did this with an institution almost 140 years old, an institution vital to the lifeblood of the city that it resides in that have had generations contributing to and being a part of. It's nothing short of an absolute disgrace that it's led to all of this. 

And its not just Mel who loses out financially. There's a long list of creditors. Plus the fans suffer through no fault of their own. 

[Tyler Durden]

14 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

The equivalent would be if you'd racked up a load of debt by extravagant spending and had a large mortgage that you were struggling to afford to pay as it was, then you lost your job and it all went south. Now, some people do do that but you'd usually say they were irresponsible and shouldn't be so silly. But that's usually a private affair that the family may admonish the responsible party for, but the difference is Mel did this with an institution almost 140 years old, an institution vital to the lifeblood of the city that it resides in that have had generations contributing to and being a part of. It's nothing short of an absolute disgrace that it's led to all of this. 

But if you lost your job due to Covid that would make it all OK don't forget ?

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, GboroRam said:

And its not just Mel who loses out financially. There's a long list of creditors. Plus the fans suffer through no fault of their own. 

Well we can agree that the fans should not suffer.  That's why days like today are great , for the fans who aboslutley do not deserve the pain. 

[Big Trav]

Could we in theory appeal the ajourned case when the new owners come in?

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Its not, believe me. Credit to that has got to be the thread started espousing it was the fans fault we are currently in our dire predicament.

I'd send you a link to it but quite correctly it was shut down by the mods after a couple of hours.

If by some miracle we stay up that will be to the fans etrenal credit. Now ay is any of this mess the fan's fault. 

[1967RAMS]

17 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

The moral thing to do would be to pay any remaining debts in full if he can. We don’t know whether he can or not . You are speculating.
 

gambling with money we don’t have is what everyone with a mortgage does. Are we all immoral? 

Silly Billy

[Ramarena]

Footage from EFL HQ after the game

Edited November 21, 2021 by Ramarena

[PistoldPete]

4 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

The equivalent would be if you'd racked up a load of debt by extravagant spending and had a large mortgage that you were struggling to afford to pay as it was, then you lost your job and it all went south. Now, some people do do that but you'd usually say they were irresponsible and shouldn't be so silly. But that's usually a private affair that the family may admonish the responsible party for, but the difference is Mel did this with an institution almost 140 years old, an institution vital to the lifeblood of the city that it resides in that have had generations contributing to and being a part of. It's nothing short of an absolute disgrace that it's led to all of this. 

Derby were debt free apart from money owed to Morris...  until covid . MSD loan taken out in August 2020.

[Leeds Ram]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Derby were debt free apart from money owed to Morris...  until covid . MSD loan taken out in August 2020.

It's not just MSD we owe money too though. 

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

It's not just MSD we owe money too though. 

No , but according to your post "the equivalent would be if you'd racked up a load of debt by extravagant spending and had a large mortgage that you were struggling to afford to pay as it was, then you lost your job and it all went south".

We didn't have a load of debt or a large mortgage before the equivalent catastrophe of losing our revenue. Only debts were soft loans to Mel... unless you count money owed on the Beilik transfer maybe but that was payable by instalments.     

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

4 hours ago, Indy said:

Administrators on Radio Derby drawing a distinction between an embargo and a business plan. Sounded more positive. 

Any links to this interview?