Derby finally accept 21 point deduction.

[Curtains]

19 minutes ago, NottsRammy said:

This is the only thing i dont get why make around 20 people jobless and spend 300k on an appeal you never went for thats quite shocking by the administrators .Other than that the admins have been brilliant . 

Now lets have news of the buyer through the door and lift the fans mood ready for next year . 

I have no confidence in the Administrators sorry

[FindernRam]

18 minutes ago, Chris_D said:

further 3 if we don't comply with the Budget set out in Appendix 1 to the EFL decision published today https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/judgments-and-decisions/#:~:text=Derby County-,Agreed Decision,-More information

 

If I read the appendix correctly we are still transfer embargoed for this season.

[Ramarena]

9 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

As if it wasn't bad enough agreeing a penalty for decisions that were signed off by the EFL previously & not explicitly prohibited under their regulations, we also have to agree to a business plan that means we have no hope of recruiting a squad that would have any prayer of overcoming a 21 point penalty. No transfer fee or loan fee this season even if we're taken over by a responsible new owner with significant funds? How on earth is that fair?

There is so much in that EFL statement that would not stand up in a court of law. Its absolutely typical Derby County luck that our previous owner was not in a position to drag these charlatans to court to justify a) their retrospective revision in opinion & b) the punitive 'guilty until proven innocent' transfer embargo & dragging out of 'disciplinary processes' that we've lived under for the past 2 years

Would be fascinated to know how EFL 'persuaded' Quantuma to accept the points penalty & business plan - must have related to sale of the club. Again with funds, any actions borne out of bad faith could have been overcome with an injunction.

I'd like to say this at least gives us some clarity at last but there's still HMRC, Morris' ownership of PP & a takeover still to sort. What a mess.

 

I think it will have been easy for the EFL. 

You run out of money in Jan and the chances of getting a takeover done with penalties hanging over you are small.

So if you don’t agree to this, we’re going to wait this out and watch you go under!

Edited November 16, 2021 by Ramarena

[Curtains]

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Derby-county-fans-chris-kirchner-6213155

[Tamworthram]

27 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

When The Rams Trust next meer with the EFL, the first thing they should be doing is asking for a full transcript of all discussions that took place with the administrators. 

Basically, we've had two parties who do not have the clubs best interests in mind agree on a punishment for us.

Are you referring to the administrators as one of the parties?

How do you know they do not have the best interests of the club in mind? How do you know they didn’t consider that prolonging the process by failing to agree/submitting an appeal wouldn’t have damaged the club and creditors further possibly by delaying a resolution beyond the timescales to finalise a purchase? How do you know that, having taken advice, failure to reach an agreement wouldn’t have been effectively a waste of more money?

Whilst the transcript you are referring to would no doubt answer the above questions, I doubt we’ll ever see them. 

[Chris_D]

19 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Its not an opinion issue at all and it matters not a jot how it looks from the outside.

Unfortunately, this is why people with little understanding of the issje believe us to be guilty, despite all of the experts in the field conclusively saying that the accounts were fully compliant with FRS102.

I must say for a 'football finance expert' I'm surprised you still refer to it as an opinion issue.

The only thing that I believe could have been called into question was (a) residual values used and (b) methodology for arriving at these values.

You say it was kicking the can down the road but we all know that is not necessarily true.

The ground sale took place in 2018 and cost cutting measures have taken place since then, so pushing any losses forward would clearly be helpful.

of course it is an opinion issue, in your second sentence you literally refer to opinions

Edited November 16, 2021 by Chris_D

[kevinhectoring]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Unfortunately, this is why people with little understanding of the issje believe us to be guilty, despite all of the experts in the field conclusively saying that the accounts were fully compliant with FRS102.

If this is true, then why did we not put forward an expert witness ? It makes no sense 

[curb]

14 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

I think it will have been easy for the EFL. 

You run out of money in Jan and the chances of getting a takeover done with penalties hanging over you are small.

So if you don’t agree to this, we’re going to wait this out and watch you go under!

This is exactly it, we can’t go through another lengthy appeals process so they can stick us with whatever punishment they want, whether we’re guilty of it or not. 
having said that, the losses look pretty bad, not the minor losses that Mel was trying to make out. 

[Mucker1884]

1 hour ago, Chester40 said:

Well, there clearly was a huge leak in the whole process. 

Administrators need to speak asap because it looks like they surrendered and have rubber stamped relegation,  least they can do is explain why.

Publication
29. This Agreed Decision shall be published by the EFL on its website and may be circulated to other member clubs of the EFL.
30. The EFL may answer any questions posed of it by other Championship Clubs in relation to this Agreed Decision and any matters related thereto.
31. Any further public statements are to be agreed between the parties.

 

Is that last one in respect of any further EFL statement, or is it effectively a gagging order on the club?   ?‍♂️

[Gaspode]

42 minutes ago, jono said:

I believe it is due to their primary duty to the creditors. They must make the sale of the club speedy and at as high a value as possible.

They  “rolled over” on the appeal in order to get the EFL to fix ALL the sanctions this season. The appeal - or agreeing to back down from it - was the only leverage they had. They needed to have the sanctions closed off in order to sell the club.

It stinks to high heaven from a justice point of view, but from a finance and new owner POV it probably had to happen given the EFL’s consistently appalling behaviour and inconsistency.

I await with interest the EFL clearly saying no further penalties for historical misdemeanours.. not seen it yet except in the vague use of words like “concluded” ….

The EFL are not to be trusted to leave this alone. They will continue to be on our case .. bet you ! 

...and don't forget that Morris put us into admin very shortly after the EFL came out with a statement effectively saying there were no timeframes on when the outstanding FFP/accounts issues would be resolved. I suspect that was the final issue that pushed Mel into the admin course of action - a never ending FFP process with no chance of ever selling the club while the EFL played their games.

They've been a bunch of total ossers through this entire process - constantly delaying and dragging out decisions in order to punish the club further - there really needs to be a high-level inquiry into their stewardship of the football league - they're clearly unfit for purpose - but if it's down to self-serving football clubs to shake the tree, it'll never happen....

[Gaspode]

7 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

If this is true, then why did we not put forward an expert witness ? It makes no sense 

Probably because we'd already been cleared of any wrong doing in the original case. The EFL appeal was focusiing on whether we'd used the different method to decieve or to gain an advantage, not whether we'd broken accountancy rules....

[Duracell]

Where was this energy from the football authorities when QPR went up in 2014? 

It seems that because we weren't promoted as heroes in that playoff final, we lived long enough in the Championship to become the villains. Although we may have got a lucky escape like QPR if not for Roos' cabbage hands which he saves for special occasions.

I'd wouldn't find this such a bitter pill to swallow if I believed this was part of a wider project to completely shake up finances in English football, but it really isn't. It's a case of punishing the scene of the crime, rather than the criminal. The individuals whose terrible decision making led us to this position will likely financially recover long before the club and community does. 

It seems the EFL believe that this points deduction will send some sort of message, but there will be another Derby. And another Derby after that. The kind of ego and personality willing to put a club in financial jeopardy in the name of promotion to the Premier League is plentiful in the world of business, and such personalities don't think "better not, this club could be on its knees after I'm gone."

So long as the football authorities pretend that this sort of financial mess is the actions of a few errant individuals rather than symptomatic of a broken financial model in the game, nothing will change. There will keep on being MMs, fueled by ego and enabled by dubious accounting, trying to compete with parachute payment clubs. 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Duracell

[Rab a dab doo]

I afraid however much we feel hard done too,  that we being singled out to be made an example of, we are where are and nothing is going to change.

It is how we learn and move on from this is the Most important thing. 

Remember, we have been here before and risen up to the promised land and we will again with :

1. Good governance

2. Sound management both on and off the pitch.

3. Maintenance of our fantastic fanbase.

4. The skill,dedication and fortitude of our lads who wear the black and white with pride.

No but no can keep this GREAT club down.

We WILL get back to where we rightfully belong amongst the elite 

So chin up lads, this not the end but the beginning of a glorious NEW dawn.

UP THE MIGHT RAMS 

 

[G STAR RAM]

26 minutes ago, Chris_D said:

of course it is an opinion issue, in your second sentence you literally refer to opinions

The use of our amortisation method is not a matter of opinion, it was and still is fully compliant with FRS102.

The accounting estimates used to arrive at the figure are there to be scrutinised but the accounting policy is under question by nobody qualified in the field. If anything it gives a truer and fairer view than the straight line method, if applied correctly.

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, kevinhectoring said:

If this is true, then why did we not put forward an expert witness ? It makes no sense 

Were we told one was required?

I'd say a qualified auditor, backed up by the ICAEW review of our file is pretty conclusive. 

What makes no sense is referring the matter to a panel with no accountants on it, to conclude on accountancy matters, and then having no right to appeal their judgement. 

[NottsRam77]

Pretty ducking depressing have to say 

i dont see this being the league one tour that some might think it will be 

remember when we were looking down the barrel of relegation at various times plenty were saying a stint in league 1 will be the reset the club needs 

well we have it now.. so lets find out 

For me now its all about progress and ill be measuring it in the smallest of quantities.

weve had body blow after body blow to deal with for the last 18 months, we need stability and probably a fair bit more patience from the fans.

Were not out of this yet until our future is secured i fear january will be a wholesale firesale .. its going to get tougher before it gets better 

[Duracell]

39 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I'd like to say this at least gives us some clarity at last but there's still HMRC, Morris' ownership of PP & a takeover still to sort. What a mess.

 

I've said before that I admire any fan with emotional capacity left to care about what team we play, or engage in discussions about tactics. I feel a little bit about the points deduction too; I always thought it was coming.

My main worries are:

1) How much of the above will be sorted before January? Because if it's not, there could be a firesale of not just the first team, but all the very clearly talented U23s who could be the key to our return to this league. If they go, then we'll be scrambling around to field a team that can stay up in League One next year, let alone any talk of promotion. And perhaps a tad more pertinently;

2) Are we going to exist????????????????*

 

 

*I can't believe how many fans are not obsessively stressed by this question.

[CBRammette]

57 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Indeed……do they honestly think Mr Gibson will back down if he misses out on the play offs by a slim margin?

They've enabled him. He’ll only get worse!

Its inevitable

[hintonsboots]

8 minutes ago, Duracell said:

There will keep on being MMs, fueled by ego and enabled by dubious accounting, trying to compete with parachute payment clubs. 

Parachute payments have removed any semblance of a level playing field in the Championship. It’s like turning up to Wimbledon and being forced to play with a Dunlop Maxply racket against a player with state of the art equipment. You can see why owners will try anything to compete. 

My question for the forum is, how would the situation have played out if Mel hadn’t gone for administration ? Would it have been a heftier penalty than 9 points, which would have been survivable? Or would the EFL have left us in limbo and unable to find a buyer ?

[Sidd10]

33 minutes ago, Curtains said:

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Derby-county-fans-chris-kirchner-6213155

This make me unbelievably angry. What kind of reporting is this? 'Poorly timed tweet', 'grilled by fans' 'brag about'

what the actual f. How anyone at this poor excuse for a news outlet gets paid is beyond me. I wonder if Nicholson is embarrassed at how awful the click bait nonsense that comes from the telegraph is? 

Whether Kirchner does or does not buy the club... no one knows yet, I'm hopeful he does so we still have a club. But why bother with this utter nonsense that frankly if I were him and reading it, i'd be pissed off at.

"His tweet was not about the situation with Derby, but rather to brag about spending a week at golf events in Dubai with "partners" including luxury watch brand Rolex."

First thing as a new owner, I'd closing all lines of communication with this awful excuse of paper.