duncanjwitham Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Sheff Ram said: "The claim is not limited merely to the amortisation issue in respect of which a Disciplinary Panel have already found Derby County to have breached the P&S Rules. Without breaking the confidentiality of the proceedings, in simple terms, MFC allege Derby County and its directors systematically cheated under the P&S Rules and that such cheating affects the integrity of the competition." Erm, thank you for that one, Middlesbrough FC. That makes everything soooooo much clearer. Does anyone genuinely have any idea what they're talking about? Their attempt to wangle in on the appeal hearing was mostly focussed on the stadium sale value, but that's been so thoroughly cleared by the first hearing they've literally got no chance of getting anywhere with it. And given the sheer number of people who've been over out accounts for that period, I'd be amazed if there's something else lurking there that literally nobody else has found. And even if there is, it must be incredibly minor (in cash terms) or it would be obvious. RadioactiveWaste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Quote Why are MFC bringing a claim now? MFC became aware that Derby County was cheating under the P&S Rules during 2018/19. MFC first intimated a claim against Derby County in May 2019 immediately following the end of the 2018/19 season. The claim was held in abeyance whilst the EFL Disciplinary Proceedings against Derby County were followed through to a conclusion. MFC then sent Derby County a Letter Before Action in the autumn of 2020 and started arbitration proceedings against Derby County in January 2021. Derby County used various procedural tactics to seek to delay the proceedings and as a result the claim has yet to be finally determined. MFC is not responsible for the delay. Had it been finally determined, and an award made in favour of MFC, there would be no dispute that MFC would be a Football Creditor. Quite remarkable to be completely honest... Derby weren't even charged until January 2020, and the amortisation charge was unexpected. Prior to this, Middlesbrough felt we cheated solely due to the stadium sale, and continued with this view up until their arbitration application was rejected on 22/10/2020. Quote It is said the claim has no prospect of success so why continue? Given that the claim is confidential, MFC does not understand how people can assert it has no prospect of success. MFC is a commercial organisation and would not pursue frivolous litigation at huge costs unless it had been advised that there is a good prospect of success. The claim is not limited merely to the amortisation issue in respect of which a Disciplinary Panel have already found Derby County to have breached the P&S Rules. Without breaking the confidentiality of the proceedings, in simple terms, MFC allege Derby County and its directors systematically cheated under the P&S Rules and that such cheating affects the integrity of the competition. At least two clubs, namely Middlesbrough and Wycombe, were directly affected by the cheating, albeit in different seasons. In simple terms so far as MFC is concerned, had Derby County not cheated, MFC would have been in the play-offs. However, Derby County did cheat and, as a result, MFC lost the opportunities that arise as result of that. Probably because there isn't any credible basis for any claim against Derby. The "systematic cheating" was already addressed in previous hearings and dismissed. The issue here is the EFL's processes. Birmingham, Sheff Weds and Derby were all charged with failing the 3 year P&S period up to 2018. Birmingham had their points deduction in 18/19, Sheff Weds in 20/21 and now Derby in 21/22. This claim should be against the EFL for not punishing all 3 clubs in the 18/19 season. They're 100% confident that Middlesbrough would have placed 6th if the EFL had handled everything as they should have? Bristol City should have a very strong claim against that comment. Quote How can MFC hold the administrators and EFL to ransom in demanding that its claim, reported to be worth over £40m, be met in full as a condition of the share in the EFL transferring? That is not what MFC has said. The club believes that it is a Football Creditor but accepts that, as things stand, the size of the debt due is unknown. All MFC have said is that any new owner should be required to honour the final decision of the Arbitration Panel on behalf of Derby County once that is known. There is a certain inconsistency to the arguments presented by the administrators. On the one hand, it is said that there is no prospect of the claim succeeding, in which case there is no risk for a new owner. But, on the other hand, the administrator apparently cannot find a new owner because they will not proceed without the claim being settled due, presumably, to the fact that it has merit and might succeed. If the claim has no prospect of success MFC does not understand why a new owner would resolve the matter by accepting that the arbitration decision should be honoured. Of course, if the claim has a value as MFC believes, there is no reason why MFC should not, as a Football Creditor, be entitled to recover the monies due to it. Middlesbrough is not a Football Creditor. Quote Why is Steve Gibson refusing to compromise the claim? MFC has made it clear since the administrators were appointed that it was happy to discuss how the claim is dealt with and whether a compromise could be reached with the administrators or the new owner. The administrators contacted MFC in November 2021. However, there has been no contact at all since then, until this week. The administrators ignored MFC’s correspondence from November and MFC’s offer to continue engagement. MFC has made clear that it does not wish to see Derby County fall into liquidation, and that MFC is happy to be realistic in its expectations in order for Derby County to exit administration. However, it is ultimately up to the administrators or the new owner to put a firm and realistic proposal forward or merely agree that MFC’s claim, when finally determined, will be met in full by the new owners. The administrators have no legal requirement need to contact Boro to exit administration. duncanjwitham, HorsforthRam, The Scarlet Pimpernel and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 This is crazy now https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12519210/claims-blocking-a-rams-takeover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 - EFL 10pm last night - Boro early afternoon today - Wycombe this evening This is an organised and concerted media management strategy by the three stooges, to put their agenda across and most importantly try to disrupt the news agenda through the day. They are doing this in reaction to the MP’s debate and the attention it will attract for us. There is absolutely no way this is coincidental. They have coordinated and planned this TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!! Indy, Kathcairns, angieram and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Git Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Boro should have tried winning a few more games that season. Didn't they lose five on the trot in March 2019? Edit: They actually lost six on the trot in the spring of 2019. Edited January 18, 2022 by Grumpy Git Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Ramarena said: - EFL 10pm last night - Boro early afternoon today - Wycombe this evening This is an organised and concerted media management strategy by the three stooges, to put their agenda across and most importantly try to disrupt the news agenda through the day. They are doing this in reaction to the MP’s debate and the attention it will attract for us. There is absolutely no way this is coincidental. They have coordinated and planned this TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!! I mean the weird self Q&As by the EFL and Boro basically says that is of course the case. Maybe the wycombe chairman doesn't like talking to himself and that’s why he’s coming on RD. JoetheRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Just now, Ramos said: I mean the weird self Q&As by the EFL and Boro basically says that is of course the case. Maybe the wycombe chairman doesn't like talking to himself and that’s why he’s coming on RD. He’s the weakest link so he gets the graveyard shift. It goes like this. EFL see themselves as the key player so they go first, to get ahead of the MP debate, so release their statement last night so it’s on the morning news agenda. Boro are next in line of importance, so release their statement at a similar time to the debate with their MP coincidentally highlighting Boro’s talking points, which are then reinforced by Boros statement. As mentioned WW get the poo end of the stick to try and close out the news agenda and speaking to the Rams fans which is beneath Boro and the EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 The assertion that Boro would have finished 6th if Derby had not exceeded ffp limits is quite a good one. You suggest Derby would have fewer points than Middlesbrough FC had they not spent as they did? Can you please explain to the court against whom they would have gained fewer points? Had Derby gained fewer points, it stands to reason does it not that others would have gained those points? Would those others perhaps have finished ahead of Middlesbrough? Mucker1884, StarterForTen, Kathcairns and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramos Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Ramarena said: He’s the weakest link so he gets the graveyard shift. It goes like this. EFL see themselves as the key player so they go first, to get ahead of the MP debate, so release their statement last night so it’s on the morning news agenda. Boro are next in line of importance, so release their statement at a similar time to the debate with their MP coincidentally highlighting Boro’s talking points, which are then reinforced by Boros statement. As mentioned WW get the poo end of the stick to try and close out the news agenda and speaking to the Rams fans which is beneath Boro and the EFL. Yep sounds about right. Don’t think it’s worked as well as they think though. Kathcairns and Ramarena 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, Curtains said: This is crazy now https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12519210/claims-blocking-a-rams-takeover I thought that he gave a decent resume of the situation, considering the general audience aimed at. Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ramos said: Yep sounds about right. Don’t think it’s worked as well as they think though. Agreed, it’s a desperate attempt to take back control of the narrative. But they find themselves in a weak position with events overtaking them. RadioactiveWaste and Kathcairns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I thought that he gave a decent resume of the situation, considering the general audience aimed at. Yes of course . What I mean is the Boro claim is crazy . I think the claims are probably libelous Rob Dorsett has told the absolute truth of what’s happening so I post it again https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12519210/claims-blocking-a-rams-takeover Edited January 18, 2022 by Curtains Added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Ram Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) The WW chairman was interviewed yesterday by Radio Derby, it’s recorded Edited January 18, 2022 by Ewe Ram Tense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Just now, Curtains said: Yes of course . What I mean is the Boro claim is crazy . I think the claims are probably libelous And he knows we can do nothing about them. Curtains 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 8 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: The assertion that Boro would have finished 6th if Derby had not exceeded ffp limits is quite a good one. You suggest Derby would have fewer points than Middlesbrough FC had they not spent as they did? Can you please explain to the court against whom they would have gained fewer points? Had Derby gained fewer points, it stands to reason does it not that others would have gained those points? Would those others perhaps have finished ahead of Middlesbrough? I think the argument they'll be putting forward is that because we cheated and the EFL didn't penalise us when they should have (in line with Birmingham) we would have got the same results against all sides, except had a points deduction resulting in them taking 6th at our expense. RadioactiveWaste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: And he knows we can do nothing about them. We could counter claim but the EFL actions have made it impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Curtains said: This is crazy now https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12519210/claims-blocking-a-rams-takeover At least he said Middlesbrough and Wycombe will be responsible for the liquidation of Derby county as there are 3 bidders sat ready. Edited January 18, 2022 by Sparkle Ramewe, Curtains, S8TY and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ewe Ram said: The WW chairman was interviewed yesterday by Radio Derby, it’s recorded An hour long interview apparently, but once they’d put it through the b*llsh*t filter it came out at 30 seconds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, Ewe Ram said: The WW chairman was interviewed yesterday by Radio Derby, it’s recorded Pointless Kathcairns and Ewe Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawhillram Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I think the argument they'll be putting forward is that because we cheated and the EFL didn't penalise us when they should have (in line with Birmingham) we would have got the same results against all sides, except had a points deduction resulting in them taking 6th at our expense. I agree that is the gist of it. But it was delay caused by the efl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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