Steve Gibson trying to liquidate Derby

[Yani P]

2 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Or more realistically, they said no, you don't own Derby county and it's only whoever is in control of DCFC that we'll consider discussion with.

Or even more realistically it was fantasy journalism

[RoyMac5]

A reminder of the other claimant.

[Carl Sagan]

Thought I'd ask on here for clarification. 

My understanding (but may be wrong) is that the potential buyers would move forward and purchase the club if the Boro (and Wycombe) claims were something that might end up in court at a later date. What our potential buyers won't accept is the EFL installing these clubs as "football  creditors" as part of an EFL arbitration process that could see us forced to take on significant additional debt to be paid in full. However, neither Boro nor Wycombe want to go to court and instead want the EFL too allocate them money for these spurious claims instead, which would be added to our existing debt and be paid in full as the clubs would then become football creditors. Is this the situation?

On the other side, both the Radio Tees guy Ed Dawes spoke with on Radio Derby tonight and the Boro fans on Twitter are saying, "if our claim is so spurious, why don't you say you'll see us in court and then we'll see what happens?"

Does anyone know the true position and, hoping so, can they point to some information that sets this out?

 

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Carl Sagan said:

Thought I'd ask on here for clarification. 

My understanding (but may be wrong) is that the potential buyers would move forward and purchase the club if the Boro (and Wycombe) claims were something that might end up in court at a later date. What our potential buyers won't accept is the EFL installing these clubs as "football  creditors" as part of an EFL arbitration process that could see us forced to take on significant additional debt to be paid in full. However, neither Boro nor Wycombe want to go to court and instead want the EFL too allocate them money for these spurious claims instead, which would be added to our existing debt and be paid in full as the clubs would then become football creditors. Is this the situation?

On the other side, both the Radio Tees guy Ed Dawes spoke with on Radio Derby tonight and the Boro fans on Twitter are saying, "if our claim is so spurious, why don't you say you'll see us in court and then we'll see what happens?"

Does anyone know the true position and, hoping so, can they point to some information that sets this out?

 

Yes to the first paragraph 

second paragraph isn’t Gibson 

I hope that helps 

[Carl Sagan]

4 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Yes to the first paragraph 

second paragraph isn’t Gibson 

I hope that helps 

Thanks. So if that's the case, is it true that the EFL are insisting it remains an EFL arbitration matter with the two  clubs then given football creditor status, because if they don't agree to that they think Boro might sue them? And that this is the logjam in terms of appointing a preferred bidder and coming out of administration?

[edit: and is there anything in writing anywhere that confirms this?]

Edited January 18, 2022 by Carl Sagan

[Jimbo Ram]

2 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Thanks. So if that's the case, is it true that the EFL are insisting it remains an EFL arbitration matter with the two  clubs then given football creditor status, because if they don't agree to that they think Boro might sue them? And that this is the logjam in terms of appointing a preferred bidder and coming out of administration?

But would a potential buyer be happy to purchase a club with a potential court case hanging over them?

[Sparkle]

3 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Thanks. So if that's the case, is it true that the EFL are insisting it remains an EFL arbitration matter with the two  clubs then given football creditor status, because if they don't agree to that they think Boro might sue them? And that this is the logjam in terms of appointing a preferred bidder and coming out of administration?

[edit: and is there anything in writing anywhere that confirms this?]

You got it ?

[Dai Capp]

7 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Thanks. So if that's the case, is it true that the EFL are insisting it remains an EFL arbitration matter with the two  clubs then given football creditor status, because if they don't agree to that they think Boro might sue them? And that this is the logjam in terms of appointing a preferred bidder and coming out of administration?

[edit: and is there anything in writing anywhere that confirms this?]

The other advantage for EFL keeping it as a matter of EFL arbitration is that the proceedings and outcomes are private and confidential - particularly helpful when you're under the microscope yourself. If it goes to court it will be a very public undressing for all concerned I suspect and as the regulator that would be particularly embarrassing.

[WestKentRam]

I must admit I don't understand exactly what is going on here, having read Boro's statement they put out on their website today https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-Derby-county, and would be grateful if someone who does have a legal grasp of the situation can answer something about it for me.

Boro state: 'MFC then sent Derby County a Letter Before Action in the autumn of 2020 and started arbitration proceedings against Derby County in January 2021. Derby County used various procedural tactics to seek to delay the proceedings and as a result the claim has yet to be finally determined.'

Did not Boro apply for an arbitration claim via the EFL and were denied this on 26/10/20 or is this something else? https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c9fc5dceaa7f4b62b81dca0b9e2f7c9d/2020.10.26---decision-on-mfc-redaction.pdf

Is the current dispute over a new claim that would be decided by arbitration via the EFL processes, or is it a separate case to be decided by the courts?

Another thing that troubles me is the exact timing of Gibson's action. Did he institute this claim that the impasse appears to be over once Derby were in administration or before this? If the former then this is extremely worrying, as he would then surely know that it would effectively block a takeover of the club in administration as any potential new owner would be very unlikely to buy the club with this hanging over them.

If the club in administration took it through the courts then this would mean almost certain liquidation as even if Derby won the case they wouldn't be able to keep paying their players for this length of time without a new owner. So the only way for it to be resolved quickly would be a large pay off to Boro that would see Derby having to effectively sell their squad to finance this, again making a sale of the club with no players unlikely and liquidation the end result. There appears to be no way out apart from Gibson withdrawing his claim, that seems very unlikely unless the now mounting political pressure has some effect.

If the arbitration/claim was in its same form in the MM era then ok, MM bailed with this a potential loss of more of his money and the administrators are just having to deal with one more thing from that era. However I can't really see anything in news reports and statements that state exactly when Boro and WW firmed things up with a definite claim against the club rather than the initial process of a 'Letter Before Action in the autumn of 2020' that is referred to in the Boro statement then the arbitration, that I am not sure is Boro's failed one via the EFL processes as I've detailed above or something else. Any help to get me to understand this would be gratefully received.

[RadioactiveWaste]

Can't help but think the delaying tactics referenced are in fact, Derby defending their position, which they are entitled to do?

[Indy]

1 minute ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Can't help but think the delaying tactics referenced are in fact, Derby defending their position, which they are entitled to do?

Either that or just a total fabrication - no way to know with the unsubstantiated drivel they’ve put out. 

[StaffsRam]

Boro’s claim is ridiculous. Although it’s the picture of sanity compared to Wycombe’s claim. 

[Sparkle]

5 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Can't help but think the delaying tactics referenced are in fact, Derby defending their position, which they are entitled to do?

Or simply opinion of two football club owners who are trying to extort money to grease their own failings 

[alexxxxx]

7 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Can't help but think the delaying tactics referenced are in fact, Derby defending their position, which they are entitled to do?

No its obviously part of the 'cheating.' 

[eccles the ram]

Don't know whether it was on Talk Sport or Radio Derby yesterday and I may have misheard it but someone said Middlesbrough had either sued,or were going to sue the EFL if they didn't look more closely at our accounts. The EFL then decided to investigate. The EFL knew they had to do something to hide their incompetency and have decided to completely go over the top with our club. The thorn in the side of the EFL is that we could survive relegation. They had not factored in that possibility. They want us taken down not them and they will do everything in their power to do so. Yesterday was perhaps a bit of a turning point. MPs and positive press for once are getting more people on our side of the situation. We need more info. from the Admins. today about where we are at. So common Q we are paying you a great deal of money, let us know something we didn't know before! UTR.

 

P.S.Couhig's interview on RD was more a PR exercise but it made him sound rather arrogant and pompous.

[RoyMac5]

 

[CBRammette]

47 minutes ago, eccles the ram said:

Don't know whether it was on Talk Sport or Radio Derby yesterday and I may have misheard it but someone said Middlesbrough had either sued,or were going to sue the EFL if they didn't look more closely at our accounts. The EFL then decided to investigate. The EFL knew they had to do something to hide their incompetency and have decided to completely go over the top with our club. The thorn in the side of the EFL is that we could survive relegation. They had not factored in that possibility. They want us taken down not them and they will do everything in their power to do so. Yesterday was perhaps a bit of a turning point. MPs and positive press for once are getting more people on our side of the situation. We need more info. from the Admins. today about where we are at. So common Q we are paying you a great deal of money, let us know something we didn't know before! UTR.

 

P.S.Couhig's interview on RD was more a PR exercise but it made him sound rather arrogant and pompous.

As you say "The thorn in the side of the EFL is that we could survive relegation. They had not factored in that possibility. They want us taken down not them and they will do everything in their power to do so."   
 

This is the crux of it. Things seemed to progressing ok then we kept closing the gap on those above followed by Wayne's obviously relieved press conference and mention of lining up signings. That is when all of this immediately kicked off.

I would like to see all the communications between between the key players against us in those few days. They cannot allow us to stay up and I think we all think they changed the goalposts to ensure this esp re the proof funding, football creditor status, new embargo, etc. Obviously the proof of funding was there with the PB announced and suspect the admins were led to believe this. 

can the Sports Minister demand to see these comms? Or Margaret Beckett carry on her very effective statements to do so? I am not sure they expected the backlash they have received though as liquidation now threatens and have backed themselves into a corner as the coordinated statements show. I think their aim is relegation and perhaps start next year with points deduction also for something. Their actions will achieve that if restructuring is needed. 
 

 

[Maharan]

10 hours ago, WestKentRam said:

I must admit I don't understand exactly what is going on here, having read Boro's statement they put out on their website today https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-Derby-county, and would be grateful if someone who does have a legal grasp of the situation can answer something about it for me.

Boro state: 'MFC then sent Derby County a Letter Before Action in the autumn of 2020 and started arbitration proceedings against Derby County in January 2021. Derby County used various procedural tactics to seek to delay the proceedings and as a result the claim has yet to be finally determined.'

Did not Boro apply for an arbitration claim via the EFL and were denied this on 26/10/20 or is this something else? https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c9fc5dceaa7f4b62b81dca0b9e2f7c9d/2020.10.26---decision-on-mfc-redaction.pdf

Is the current dispute over a new claim that would be decided by arbitration via the EFL processes, or is it a separate case to be decided by the courts?

Another thing that troubles me is the exact timing of Gibson's action. Did he institute this claim that the impasse appears to be over once Derby were in administration or before this? If the former then this is extremely worrying, as he would then surely know that it would effectively block a takeover of the club in administration as any potential new owner would be very unlikely to buy the club with this hanging over them.

 

The other way to look at this is to question the timing of the club going into administration. Was the club put into administration in some part because MM knew the boro claim was pending? 
i don’t know the answer, but Gibson has been open about his intention to take action since before the club was put into administration. 

[WestLondonRam]

Has anyone checked Boro's accounts yet? 

35 Million Loss for 2020 accounts

35 + Mill on 2021 Un-Submitted accounts. 

Only 1 More Season and they need a 9 point Deduction correct? 

[BriggRam]

4 minutes ago, WestLondonRam said:

Has anyone checked Boro's accounts yet? 

35 Million Loss for 2020 accounts

35 + Mill on 2021 Un-Submitted accounts. 

Only 1 More Season and they need a 9 point Deduction correct? 

Rules will be changed and warped once we are out the way to safeguard Boro

Edited January 19, 2022 by BriggRam