Has the transfer embargo been lifted?

[Turnstile]

16 minutes ago, jono said:

You know good business isn’t done on the hoof with a great big pot of cash ready to dip into whenever you want. There will have been plans, strategies, monies in place (that take time to assemble) and then bang .. along comes a pandemic that takes away 50% of your revenue. Plans need to be adjusted, money and the sources that it comes from need to be found. That is not easy for anyone.  I think you are fundamentally wrong in your assessment. No one doubts Mel has made errors, trusted the wrong people, been let down, had gambles that didn’t  come off … all true ….  but given that, whatever his motives, even if he was gambling on promotion pay day he has been putting around 12 million pounds a year for the last 5 years … just to cover the difference between income and expenditure (not including transfers and investments in the academy) He owned the stadium .. but bought it again as part of that.

It is a joke to say he isn’t committed but there comes a point when you need to look for help … not easy in this changed world. 

We will see I think his commitment to the club finished months ago.He know just wants rid as quickly as possible.I think Morris took the club on with good intentions but was naive about football financial dealings.Swimming with sharks has taken it’s toll on him.

[Rev]

24 minutes ago, Turnstile said:

Surely that depends how much money is left in the pot ,HMRC have to be paid first.

Not the case. HMRC are treated the same as any other unsecured creditor.

It's a term of membership of the EFL that in insolvency/administration events, football creditors are paid in full, before any other creditors receive their 25p in the pound.

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/features/item/football-creditors-rule-is-the-football-league-s-new-insolvency-policy-a-step-in-the-right-direction

[jono]

17 minutes ago, Turnstile said:

We will see I think his commitment to the club finished months ago.He know just wants rid as quickly as possible.I think Morris took the club on with good intentions but was naive about football financial dealings.Swimming with sharks has taken it’s toll on him.

That’s fair enough, true ! 
 

Consider .. you had a dream, you had some money to spend, you tried your very best to achieve it. It didn’t work. It has to be either very hard or very wrong to criticise someone who eventually is forced by circumstances (rather than deeds ) to retreat. Everyone is human and everyone has finite resources. The Americans snatched Mels hands off .. they couldn’t wait to bail out, no matter how hard they tried to make a sustainable business .. one that we all said “lacked ambition” .. Truth is fans want a sugar daddy to finance their dreams … they aren’t easy to find and I can’t countenance folk having a go at Mel for doing his level best with the cards he had. Uncle Mel bailed us out of that Hughes/Bryson double injury … For me that’s where the the plan went astray .. but you can’t fault Mel for giving support when it was needed. 

[Turnstile]

14 minutes ago, Rev said:

Not the case. HMRC are treated the same as any other unsecured creditor.

It's a term of membership of the EFL that in insolvency/administration events, football creditors are paid in full, before any other creditors receive their 25p in the pound.

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/features/item/football-creditors-rule-is-the-football-league-s-new-insolvency-policy-a-step-in-the-right-direction

I stand to be corrected Rev?

[Gringo]

22 minutes ago, Rev said:

Not the case. HMRC are treated the same as any other unsecured creditor.

It's a term of membership of the EFL that in insolvency/administration events, football creditors are paid in full, before any other creditors receive their 25p in the pound.

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/features/item/football-creditors-rule-is-the-football-league-s-new-insolvency-policy-a-step-in-the-right-direction

Rules changed 1/12/20 HMRC are now a secondary preferential creditor, see below.

The Finance Act amends the Insolvency Act 1986 so that for insolvencies commencing on or after 1 December 2020, HMRC will rank as a secondary preferential creditor.

The preferential status is for certain taxes due from an insolvent business, to include VAT, PAYE, Employeep NICs and CIS deductions – and will be paid after the primary preferential creditors for wage arrears and unpaid holiday pay.

The intention is that more of the taxes paid by employees and customers will be recovered to fund public services, rather than be distributed to other creditors.

HMRC will remain an unsecured creditor for direct taxes such as Corporation Tax and Employer NICs

Impact

General creditors

For the relevant taxes, this will place HMRC ahead of the general body of unsecured creditors with whom HMRC would previously rank alongside.

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

We should think up some Embargo songs for when we’re back at PP.

Possibly including minor derogatory comments toward the eee ef ell

[Rev]

25 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

Rules changed 1/12/20 HMRC are now a secondary preferential creditor, see below.

The Finance Act amends the Insolvency Act 1986 so that for insolvencies commencing on or after 1 December 2020, HMRC will rank as a secondary preferential creditor.

The preferential status is for certain taxes due from an insolvent business, to include VAT, PAYE, Employeep NICs and CIS deductions – and will be paid after the primary preferential creditors for wage arrears and unpaid holiday pay.

The intention is that more of the taxes paid by employees and customers will be recovered to fund public services, rather than be distributed to other creditors.

HMRC will remain an unsecured creditor for direct taxes such as Corporation Tax and Employer NICs

Impact

General creditors

For the relevant taxes, this will place HMRC ahead of the general body of unsecured creditors with whom HMRC would previously rank alongside.

Good find.

That's for insolvency though, in which case it doesn't matter who's paid first, we're done and dusted.

Going into administration is a different matter.

 

[Gringo]

3 minutes ago, Rev said:

Good find.

That's for insolvency though, in which case it doesn't matter who's paid first, we're done and dusted.

Going into administration is a different matter.

 

No chance of administration, Mel is the only one who can put the club into admin and it would not help him recover his cash, he is a preferential creditor as are MSD holdings who have a lien on everything according to documents at companies house. 

[Rev]

3 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said:

No chance of administration, Mel is the only one who can put the club into admin and it would not help him recover his cash, he is a preferential creditor as are MSD holdings who have a lien on everything according to documents at companies house. 

Totally agree.

[Derby blood]

1 hour ago, jono said:

That’s fair enough, true ! 
 

Consider .. you had a dream, you had some money to spend, you tried your very best to achieve it. It didn’t work. It has to be either very hard or very wrong to criticise someone who eventually is forced by circumstances (rather than deeds ) to retreat. Everyone is human and everyone has finite resources. The Americans snatched Mels hands off .. they couldn’t wait to bail out, no matter how hard they tried to make a sustainable business .. one that we all said “lacked ambition” .. Truth is fans want a sugar daddy to finance their dreams … they aren’t easy to find and I can’t countenance folk having a go at Mel for doing his level best with the cards he had. Uncle Mel bailed us out of that Hughes/Bryson double injury … For me that’s where the the plan went astray .. but you can’t fault Mel for giving support when it was needed. 

Your opinion my is much different Mel sacked manager after manager, not giving them enough time. Got involved on the playing side far to much. Loved the limelight when things where going better. Also had a crazy idea the team would be full of the Academy players, he wanted to be the king of the castle and he has failed, my opinion of course, but look at the state he is leaving us in, my oh my, he might have had good intentions, but he has made far to many mistakes, i just wished we could get sold, and build a team to be competitive again. 

[jono]

15 minutes ago, Derby blood said:

Your opinion my is much different Mel sacked manager after manager, not giving them enough time. Got involved on the playing side far to much. Loved the limelight when things where going better. Also had a crazy idea the team would be full of the Academy players, he wanted to be the king of the castle and he has failed, my opinion of course, but look at the state he is leaving us in, my oh my, he might have had good intentions, but he has made far to many mistakes, i just wished we could get sold, and build a team to be competitive again. 

Sure, and I think that is what differing opinions are. i understand your view in light of where we are but the story is deeper, and way more subtle.

I don’t shy away from the fact that Mel made errors, including the academy dream, but for many of us that was a realistic idea / method to make the club sustainable in a financial environment that made “normal” business impossible. It might seem a crazy idea, but with the state of championship finances what other business model was available ? … answer = none … now I would be the first to admit we paid too much for players, we paid daft salaries, we sold players too cheaply bought more expensively,  we (Mel) supported managers way beyond what pragmatism would suggest but in the end that was about poor choices not lack of support or commitment. Hind sight is wonderful isn’t it .. come on .. when we went in for Johnson and others everyone was saying ….. Bold, supportive, ha ha we’ve got deep pockets uncle Mel .. yes some of us winced at the prices but it wasnt our money and it looked great at the time. 
 

Yes I agree we need a new leader but .. hello … 12 million PA losses in normal circumstances  and a pandemic inflating that x 2 along with FFP/ P+S

 any takers ? 
 

 

[kevinhectoring]

On 07/07/2021 at 19:50, QuitYourJibbaJivin said:

Regarding the HMRC payments, surely if we’re not filing accounts with them how can we be paying tax?

You don’t file accounts with hmrc. You file tax returns. If you have not filed accounts with EFL, that does not affect the requirement to file tax returns nor does it affect the requirement to pay tax 

[CornwallRam]

2 hours ago, Turnstile said:

I stand to be corrected Rev?

Someone posted a few years ago that footballing debts take precedence over HMRC. I was so sure that they were wrong that I researched it for a couple of hours.

Bizarrely, it turns out that the poster was right. HMRC even took it to court and lost. It makes no sense, but it's true.

[Gringo]

11 hours ago, ramswriter podcast said:

i did a podcast with Kieran Maguire on all this - have a listen

 

https://pod.fo/e/d81d7

Excellent podcast, KM always entertains and knowledgeable, thx for a great listen.

[Derby blood]

Can not wait now, to start talking about some positivity, like new signings, and going back to the stadium, and supporting our club DCFC again, i love this club with a passion, and hope the next few years are exciting ones, that us supporters can all enjoy. Once A Ram Always A Ram. 

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

Someone posted a few years ago that footballing debts take precedence over HMRC. I was so sure that they were wrong that I researched it for a couple of hours.

Bizarrely, it turns out that the poster was right. HMRC even took it to court and lost. It makes no sense, but it's true.

As @Charlotte Ram said though, the rules changed in 2020.

[Brammie Steve]

"I have to admit it's getting better, a little better all the time!

(It can't get much worse!)"

The Beatles 1967

Rams Fans 2021

[Mostyn6]

I would love to help pay Derby’s debts but I’m still paying off the £10k loan I took out to donate to the gofundme page to get Kylie Jenner up to Billionaire status.

[TheSlate]

12 hours ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

We should think up some Embargo songs for when we’re back at PP.

Possibly including minor derogatory comments toward the eee ef ell

Down with the EFL

Giving us embargo

Rooney come and we can't win at home

(Harry Belafonte - (Day-O))

[TheSlate]

12 hours ago, Charlotte Ram said:

No chance of administration, Mel is the only one who can put the club into admin and it would not help him recover his cash, he is a preferential creditor as are MSD holdings who have a lien on everything according to documents at companies house. 

edited because I made a booboo

Edited July 16, 2021 by TheSlate