Has the transfer embargo been lifted?

[NottsRam77]

2 hours ago, David said:

Grealish is 26 next month, he’s hitting his prime and barely got a game for England in the Euro’s.

How can you be a £100m player and not one of the first names on the team sheet for your country? 

We made it to the final so it’s not like you can criticise Southgate for picking the wrong teams.

Sancho, 21, 38 goals for Dortmund, already scored 3 for England which is 3 more and he’s what, £24m cheaper than Grealish.

Had Man City have given Sancho a chance and didn’t have to move to Dortmund, would have saved even more money which is bonkers.

Grealish changed the tempo and direction of several games for us 

arguably Southgates biggest mistake was not getting him on W lot ok we I. The final 

couldn’t have been so different 

it is also worth noting that Southgate is an overly cautious manager (two holding mids) and seldom breaks from that .. pep is a lot lot more forward thinking 

[Ram1988]

9 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

But if what’s being written is true we can only pay 4.5k so why have they rocked up here ? 

Unless they was told they wasn't in the managers plans at Reading and they hope to come to Derby for more frequent first team football....

[Rev]

3 hours ago, David said:

That’s not right. We have an embargo for not paying HMRC, to me this has nothing to do with the EFL, HMRC will take us to court when we’ve failed to meet enough deadlines. 

I can understand an embargo for failing to pay transfer instalments as this is a transaction between it’s member clubs, makes total sense but not HMRC.

I don't agree with your line of thinking on this occasion.

If we're not paying HMRC, the league must step in and at least ask why? 

For all they know, we could be using the money saved by non payment, on players wages or transfer fees we otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, and gaining an unfair advantage over other clubs up to date with due monies.

 

[Day]

12 minutes ago, Rev said:

I don't agree with your line of thinking on this occasion.

If we're not paying HMRC, the league must step in and at least ask why? 

For all they know, we could be using the money saved by non payment, on players wages or transfer fees we otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, and gaining an unfair advantage over other clubs up to date with due monies.

True, didn’t think of it that way, but with the pandemic, no revenue streams, not many clubs are spending. 

Would be more sensible had they rather than an embargo, monitored each signing, if we start trying to register a £10m signing whilst not paying HMRC, refuse to register the player.

Saying that, it’s not just the HMRC issue which is why we’re under embargo so doesn’t really matter I guess.

[Rambalin]

Having worked with HMRC if they thought they were not getting what is due this club would have been pulled up by them along time ago. 

They are obviously in dialogue with the club and must be ok with what they are being told  or we would be on for a court appearance. 

[Rample]

On 30/07/2021 at 20:00, kevinhectoring said:

Perversely, this might help us in negotiations with players and their agents 

Not able to pay agent fees either, I imagine that won't help much.

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Rambalin said:

Having worked with HMRC if they thought they were not getting what is due this club would have been pulled up by them along time ago. 

They are obviously in dialogue with the club and must be ok with what they are being told  or we would be on for a court appearance. 

That was my uneducated thinking, we saw them issue winding up orders to Forest on a regular basis under Fawaz. 

We can’t simply be ignoring them.

[Day]

4 minutes ago, Rample said:

Not able to pay agent fees either, I imagine that won't help much.

Best part of all this is not paying agents.

I can’t understand how football clubs let agent fees become a thing, the club is paying an agent to negotiate the most money for their client.

Where’s the sense in that, these players on thousands, some hundreds of thousand pounds a week, you want an agent, fine, you pay for one. 

[Rev]

5 minutes ago, David said:

True, didn’t think of it that way, but with the pandemic, no revenue streams, not many clubs are spending. 

Would be more sensible had they rather than an embargo, monitored each signing, if we start trying to register a £10m signing whilst not paying HMRC, refuse to register the player.

Saying that, it’s not just the HMRC issue which is why we’re under embargo so doesn’t really matter I guess.

For me, this is how football should work.

Forget FFP, P&S and all that. 

Clubs deposit money into a ring fenced account the EFL has eyes on, to be used solely for transfer fees and player wages.  

Each year, the club submit a short statement of the money they expect to come in and go out, rather than a whole set of accounts. 

Owners then become personally liable for any shortfall to be made up, rather than the club itself.

You'd soon see financial responsibility across the league's.

[duncanjwitham]

3 minutes ago, David said:

That was my uneducated thinking, we saw them issue winding up orders to Forest on a regular basis under Fawaz. 

We can’t simply be ignoring them.

Honestly wouldn’t surprise me if we’ve just agreed with HMRC to defer a bunch of NICs or something, and the EFL have decided they don’t like it. Probably a bunch of other clubs have done similar, but they weren’t splashed across the Daily Mail for doing it so are “getting away with it”.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, David said:

Best part of all this is not paying agents.

I can’t understand how football clubs let agent fees become a thing, the club is paying an agent to negotiate the most money for their client.

Where’s the sense in that, these players on thousands, some hundreds of thousand pounds a week, you want an agent, fine, you pay for one. 

It's always struck me as daft....they representing their client but getting paid by the party the negotiate with on behalf of their client (as well as taking money from the client).
I guess agents very effectively positioned themselves to be able to make deals not happen even when both other parties would probably just go ahead....

 

[Day]

1 minute ago, Rev said:

For me, this is how football should work.

Forget FFP, P&S and all that. 

Clubs deposit money into a ring fenced account the EFL has eyes on, to be used solely for transfer fees and player wages.  

Each year, the club submit a short statement of the money they expect to come in and go out, rather than a whole set of accounts. 

Owners then become personally liable for any shortfall to be made up, rather than the club itself.

You'd soon see financial responsibility across the league's.

Interesting idea.

For me I would scrap transfer fees and put a first team wage cap and U23s wage cap in place.

Players see out their contracts and are free to move, or they can make a request to be released and can’t sign for another club for 3 months after it’s been approved. 

This is a fag packet idea, you would probably in time find a better way for players to be allowed to leave before their contract expires.

But think about all that money saved, no more £100m Jack Grealish’s, that money can be used on improving stadiums, facilities, academies, putting money into grass roots football in the local area encouraging more to play and better coaches.

I don’t see why Football it’s accepted that clubs lose money each year, any other business would be shut down.

[duncanjwitham]

You’ll never be able to scrap transfer fees, unless the rest of the world agrees to do the same.  Which they won’t.

IMO the cap on wages to turnover ratio that’s used in league 1/2 is the best system I’ve seen so far. The thing that kills football clubs is running up huge wage bills they can’t afford to pay, and that cap basically stops that overnight.  Owners can put as much cash in to buy players, improve stadiums etc as they want, but the actual day-to-day running of the club needs to be done sustainably.

[kevinhectoring]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Honestly wouldn’t surprise me if we’ve just agreed with HMRC to defer a bunch of NICs or something, and the EFL have decided they don’t like it. Probably a bunch of other clubs have done similar, but they weren’t splashed across the Daily Mail for doing it so are “getting away with it”.

If we’d simply agreed with HMRC to defer payments, surely Mel would make the payments to avoid embargo

seems much more likely that HMRC is saying : we think you owe us x. Here’s our assessment. Pay it if you want and avoid embargo. Or we’ll have a court case.  
 

It’s not hard to see the problem we face. It’s made more difficult if the accounts discussions with EFL impact on the tax position. Which they might
 

the biggest mistake Mel has made is to make all this so very complicated 
 

[cheron85]

11 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

Honestly wouldn’t surprise me if we’ve just agreed with HMRC to defer a bunch of NICs or something, and the EFL have decided they don’t like it. Probably a bunch of other clubs have done similar, but they weren’t splashed across the Daily Mail for doing it so are “getting away with it”.

Maybe I misunderstand the way tax for companies works but I thought they paid based on profits? It's the reason Amazon don't pay tax (because in theory they reinvest all the money they make and therefore make no profit) 

So until the EFL sign off our books for the last few years we can't pay our HMRC bill accurately - I'm sure that's why Coles mentioned we'd "throw some money their way" - because we'd have to estimate how much to pay

The obvious exception I can think to this would be PAYE - which they would know and if they haven't paid it would be daft

[NottsRam77]

2 hours ago, cheron85 said:

Maybe I misunderstand the way tax for companies works but I thought they paid based on profits? It's the reason Amazon don't pay tax (because in theory they reinvest all the money they make and therefore make no profit) 

So until the EFL sign off our books for the last few years we can't pay our HMRC bill accurately - I'm sure that's why Coles mentioned we'd "throw some money their way" - because we'd have to estimate how much to pay

The obvious exception I can think to this would be PAYE - which they would know and if they haven't paid it would be daft

Pretty sure they also have several offshore “ trust ” accounts they squirrel millions into to avoid paying tax on 

anyone with money does it which is why our tax system is ducked .. it’s also incredibly easy to do 

[Carl Sagan]

I put this from Nicko in the Davies thread but I'm repeating it here as it's obviously relevant to the embargo:

 

[Alty_Ram]

Good news ! In the interests of clarity, apparently the EFL have now published the all new 'Special Derby County rules that we made up this week'....

[Day]

 

[Carl Sagan]

2 minutes ago, David said: