Has the transfer embargo been lifted?

[ramswriter podcast]

i did a podcast with Kieran Maguire on all this - have a listen

 

https://pod.fo/e/d81d7

[angieram]

2 hours ago, Turnstile said:

I can’t agree with you about Morris being committed to Derby’s wellbeing.He has not even been paying all the running costs,hench we now owe HMRC money.Surely the larger the debt the less attractive an investment we become! A really astute business man /buyer would be waiting for us to go into liquidation to pick us up on the cheap with a lot less debt.

And a twelve point penalty? Yes, very astute.

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, ramswriter podcast said:

i did a podcast with Kieran Maguire on all this - have a listen

 

https://pod.fo/e/d81d7

I take it this was recorded a while ago?

Current reasons for the embargo:
 

#3 = hard embargo ('professional standing' restrictions)
#4 = soft embargo ('established player' restrictions)
#1 and #2 = could fall under either category, I'm now thinking 'professional standing' though as they aren't P&S rule brached

Professional standing restrictions
     -  Limited to 23 players  of 'professional standing'
     - Professional standing = someone to have been on the field for at least a second of a first team competition (excluding EFL Trophy)
     - loaning players out does not reduce the count

Established player restrictions
     - Limited to 23 'established players'
     - Only players aged over 21 or over (as of 30/06/21) with at least 5 starts in competitions (including EFL Trophy, but only leagues equivalent to Championship or higher)

[Turnstile]

40 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The purchase price would already reflect any debt to HMRC, so paying it off would not make it any more or less attractive.

If a buyer thinks MM would let the club go into liquidation then I would doubt that they are very astute.

I would say they would be very astute,buying the same assets and not having to pay the creditors out at full value.millions saved if you only have to pay cocu and Keogh  and other creditors 10% in the pound.

[Turnstile]

1 hour ago, angieram said:

And a twelve point penalty? Yes, very astute.

There’s every likelihood we will go down anyway.The differential losses between division 1 income and championship income will pale into insignificance compared to taking the full debt on now or buying when we have gone into receivership.The vultures are circling but none seem to be buying.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Turnstile

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Turnstile said:

I would say they would be very astute,buying the same assets and not having to pay the creditors out at full value.millions saved if you only have to pay cocu and Keogh  and other creditors 10% in the pound.

What assets do you think they will be buying if he club is put into liquidation?

I think if they are waiting for MM to put the club into liquidation they will be waiting a very long time...

[Turnstile]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What assets do you think they will be buying if he club is put into liquidation?

I think if they are waiting for MM to put the club into liquidation they will be waiting a very long time...

Creditors very often HMRC put businesses into receivership it doesn’t have to be the owner.

[Ken Tram]

So, if we went into liquidation, and had non-footballing costs written off, leaving £50m debt, and if Mel went halves with fans - if 25,000 fans found £1,000 each - could we clear the debts - and go forwards as a fan-owned club that run on a break-even budget?

[tinman]

8 minutes ago, Ken Tram said:

So, if we went into liquidation, and had non-footballing costs written off, leaving £50m debt, and if Mel went halves with fans - if 25,000 fans found £1,000 each - could we clear the debts - and go forwards as a fan-owned club that run on a break-even budget?

No. 
25000 fans with a spare £1k knocking about to put into a football club!! Good luck. And then be able to finance it going forwards while maintaining a competitive team year on year

[Ken Tram]

 

18 minutes ago, tinman said:

No. 
25000 fans with a spare £1k knocking about to put into a football club!! Good luck. And then be able to finance it going forwards while maintaining a competitive team year on year

It's tongue in cheek.

But, lots could finance £1,000 - and my love of the club is worth more than £1k. I wouldn't put that into any other football club!

But, the worrying thing is that you do not think that a club with one of the largest fan bases in the country could maintain a competitive team that breaks even.

How can we hope to "finance" the club? Find investors who are willing to give us their money so that we can watch football? "Please Sir, can I have some more?"

On that basis the football industry is broken. Let's cut our losses - get out quick. Maybe start watching rugby - or maybe give baseball another go? (The stadium is separate from the club!)

Edited July 15, 2021 by Ken Tram

[Mihangel]

3 hours ago, ramswriter podcast said:

i did a podcast

Yey!

3 hours ago, ramswriter podcast said:

with Kieran Maguire

Oh, oh dear.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Turnstile said:

Creditors very often HMRC put businesses into receivership it doesn’t have to be the owner.

Not when they have agreed deferment or time to pay agreements.

[Rev]

1 hour ago, Turnstile said:

I would say they would be very astute,buying the same assets and not having to pay the creditors out at full value.millions saved if you only have to pay cocu and Keogh  and other creditors 10% in the pound.

Football creditors, as Cocu and Keogh would be, have to be paid in full. 

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not when they have agreed deferment or time to pay agreements.

The problem may be that part of the agreement will include all HMRC debt running alongside has to be paid on time. Late payment, as appears may have happened, can result in cancellation and request for payment.  HMRC would also need all paperwork required to be filed up to date first to get the full picture of liability and to see if other debt was up to date / could be included.  Seems we may be behind somewhat in that regard.  

[jono]

8 hours ago, Turnstile said:

I can’t agree with you about Morris being committed to Derby’s wellbeing.He has not even been paying all the running costs,hench we now owe HMRC money.Surely the larger the debt the less attractive an investment we become! A really astute business man /buyer would be waiting for us to go into liquidation to pick us up on the cheap with a lot less debt.

You know good business isn’t done on the hoof with a great big pot of cash ready to dip into whenever you want. There will have been plans, strategies, monies in place (that take time to assemble) and then bang .. along comes a pandemic that takes away 50% of your revenue. Plans need to be adjusted, money and the sources that it comes from need to be found. That is not easy for anyone.  I think you are fundamentally wrong in your assessment. No one doubts Mel has made errors, trusted the wrong people, been let down, had gambles that didn’t  come off … all true ….  but given that, whatever his motives, even if he was gambling on promotion pay day he has been putting around 12 million pounds a year for the last 5 years … just to cover the difference between income and expenditure (not including transfers and investments in the academy) He owned the stadium .. but bought it again as part of that.

It is a joke to say he isn’t committed but there comes a point when you need to look for help … not easy in this changed world. 

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

3 hours ago, Ken Tram said:

 

It's tongue in cheek.

But, lots could finance £1,000 - and my love of the club is worth more than £1k. I wouldn't put that into any other football club!

But, the worrying thing is that you do not think that a club with one of the largest fan bases in the country could maintain a competitive team that breaks even.

How can we hope to "finance" the club? Find investors who are willing to give us their money so that we can watch football? "Please Sir, can I have some more?"

On that basis the football industry is broken. Let's cut our losses - get out quick. Maybe start watching rugby - or maybe give baseball another go? (The stadium is separate from the club!)

I couldn’t pay £1k knowing it’s only filling some young kids back pocket for a couple of days (hardly any) work when I had to work really hard to earn the £1k. Just could not bring myself…

Good luck to those that do though.

[Turnstile]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not when they have agreed deferment or time to pay agreements.

Or until such agreements are not met.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Turnstile

[Turnstile]

2 hours ago, Rev said:

Football creditors, as Cocu and Keogh would be, have to be paid in full. 

 

Surely that depends how much money is left in the pot ,HMRC have to be paid first.

[GenBr]

3 hours ago, Ken Tram said:

 

It's tongue in cheek.

But, lots could finance £1,000 - and my love of the club is worth more than £1k. I wouldn't put that into any other football club!

But, the worrying thing is that you do not think that a club with one of the largest fan bases in the country could maintain a competitive team that breaks even.

How can we hope to "finance" the club? Find investors who are willing to give us their money so that we can watch football? "Please Sir, can I have some more?"

On that basis the football industry is broken. Let's cut our losses - get out quick. Maybe start watching rugby - or maybe give baseball another go? (The stadium is separate from the club!)

Why would anyone want to put £1000 into paying the debts of a club for nothing in return. 

And you would be very hard pressed to run the club at break even and still be competitive. Only a few clubs in the championship do and most of the time they are yoyo clubs

[mwram1973]

4 hours ago, Ken Tram said:

So, if we went into liquidation, and had non-footballing costs written off, leaving £50m debt, and if Mel went halves with fans - if 25,000 fans found £1,000 each - could we clear the debts - and go forwards as a fan-owned club that run on a break-even budget?

You think I want some of the window lickers on ere running my club. Have you seen some of the comments?? ?