Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[Sparkle]

The EFL are in a position where they can’t improve anything quite frankly and they said as much - they want the government review into football to distribute money from the premiership better and that’s their total plan for football, they are doing nothing in all reality but a bit of begging 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Because HMRC did not chase up any debts during Covid and MM obviously saw this as a good opportunity to run up debt that he would not be liable for.

He used HMRC as a cheap source of financing and left DCFC to pick up the tab.

Forget anything else he did that was good for the club and his sob story about writing out cheques every month, basically he thinks it is righg for the taxpayer to bear the cost of his mistakes.

 

Isn't it more a case that Mel didn't pay it?

Don't know about you, but I tend to pay bills as they are due, not when the electric company have threatened me with court and cutting off my supply 3 times.

Edit...I then read your post properly.

Edited October 5, 2021 by MackworthRamIsGod

[Yani P]

Another can he kicked down the street until he knew he would no longer be liable..

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

I believe I read Charlie Methvin had claimed they were debt free before the takeover this year. 

The guy who took over Sunderland had been involved with them for some time so their position was sorted over a long period , but to start with they were in a far worse mess than us.  

[Grumpy Git]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

...........but to start with they were in a far worse mess than us.  

So we're in the swamp, (and the alligators are circling), they were up to their testicles and were "only" up to just above the knees............

[Bob The Badger]

4 hours ago, Rambalin said:

The fact we do not own the ground is not such a huge deal lots of clubs do not own their grounds look down the A52 for one.

Many of the Spanish and Italian clubs do not own theirs and in America too. It is only major issue to supporters and potential investors from overseas will not see it has a deal breaker. 

 

 

 

Who said it was a deal breaker? And what on earth have foreign clubs got to do with it?

The question was about how the club is valued in relation to Ipswich and Sunderland.

The reality is, you're worth more if you own your house than if you rent it, all things being equal. Same goes for football clubs  

You seem to have started a conversation about something else entirely for reasons only you understand. 

[jono]

12 hours ago, angieram said:

I hope you mean "to discourage others"! ?

I think it is along the lines of … “the beatings will continue until moral improves” 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, rammieib said:

Arsenals interest is we survive as a club so they get all their money - it’s still a class gesture.

However 1.4m in the month of October? Seems a weird payment to be required to make only a couple of months after supposedly making another one.

Agreed. The sum sounds more like the installments for the rest of the season are paused with it all falling due in the summer.

I swear it was Percy that suggested £2m had been paid off so far (over 2 and a little bit seasons), so it would be bizarre if there was now a £1.4m instalment.

[RadioactiveWaste]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Agreed. The sum sounds more like the installments for the rest of the season are paused with it all falling due in the summer.

I swear it was Percy that suggested £2m had been paid off so far (over 2 and a little bit seasons), so it would be bizarre if there was now a £1.4m instalment.

It's concievable the payment amounts were negotiated in an unusual pattern due to our FFP situation - i'm not saying that is the case, but perhaps something along the lines of £0.4m in year 1, £1.2m in year 2, then say £2.8m in payments in year 3 etc. It'd be weird, but given our financial track record I could imagine somthing odd like that.

[jono]

I am Struggling with this supposed HMRC debt .. has it been confirmed ?  .. even if our wage bill was 20 million PA , meaning tax and Ni might get to 10 million .. that’s an awful lot .. could we really not have been paying for 2 years ? 
 

I can’t see us owing VAT at that level either .. if as a club we were invoicing sponsors and what not 10 million a year then Vat is going to be 2 Million or whatever … in macro round pounds, where on earth does 26 million come from.

Is the bill related to capital gains on the stadium ? .. I mean what other “item” could attract those sort of figures from a loss making company with a turnover of 30 million .. it doesn’t add up to my simplistic mind.

[Orphanram]

Some guy on Twitter is claiming that the administrators have turned down serious interest from an American Private Equity firm. Probably nonsense but I thought I would share. Things feel a little less optimistic after what’s been reported today. I’m sure there will be lots more bumps in the road until this resolves itself one way or another. 

[hintonsboots]

4 minutes ago, Orphanram said:

Some guy on Twitter is claiming that the administrators have turned down serious interest from an American Private Equity firm. Probably nonsense but I thought I would share. Things feel a little less optimistic after what’s been reported today. I’m sure there will be lots more bumps in the road until this resolves itself one way or another. 

They would need to have provided proof of £5 million in a UK bank account to begin with and provide proof of funds going forward, before being granted access to the data room to begin due diligence. 
Probably a Twitter not ITK expert.

Edited October 5, 2021 by hintonsboots

[kevinhectoring]

24 minutes ago, jono said:

Is the bill related to capital gains on the stadium ? .. I mean what other “item” could attract those sort of figures from a loss making company with a turnover of 30 million .. it doesn’t add up to my simplistic mind.

Must say I have wondered about this. Some have said on here the sale would have been intra group, so no tax.  But not sure that’s necessarily right. If 202 (the stadium owning company) was in the same tax group as the club, would it be in admin?
 

I guess we’ll be able to work it out when we see the admins report 

[RadioactiveWaste]

30 minutes ago, hintonsboots said:

They would need to have provided proof of £5 million in a UK bank account to begin with and provide proof of funds going forward, before being granted access to the data room to begin due diligence. 
Probably a Twitter not ITK expert.

Serious interest and interest that's "here's a £5m deposit for the length of the negotiations" serious are quite possibly some distance appart.

 

[CBRammette]

48 minutes ago, jono said:

I am Struggling with this supposed HMRC debt .. has it been confirmed ?  .. even if our wage bill was 20 million PA , meaning tax and Ni might get to 10 million .. that’s an awful lot .. could we really not have been paying for 2 years ? 
 

I can’t see us owing VAT at that level either .. if as a club we were invoicing sponsors and what not 10 million a year then Vat is going to be 2 Million or whatever … in macro round pounds, where on earth does 26 million come from.

Is the bill related to capital gains on the stadium ? .. I mean what other “item” could attract those sort of figures from a loss making company with a turnover of 30 million .. it doesn’t add up to my simplistic mind.

The thing that has puzzled me with PAYE is that hmrc wouldnt have allowed us to claim furlough pay if PAYE/NICs werent being paid as agreed - we've had a few clients who got notification to that effect very quickly saying furlough would stop/be clawed back if they didnt pay up to date. Could some of debt be clawed back furlough pay perhaps? However even if payroll £20m very broad brush paye say £7m and employee and employer NICs say £3.2m. So you are right likely more than 2 years worth if that alone? As you say they wouldnt allow that to build up and pay furlough

[kevinhectoring]

47 minutes ago, Orphanram said:

Some guy on Twitter is claiming that the administrators have turned down serious interest from an American Private Equity firm. Probably nonsense but I thought I would share. Things feel a little less optimistic after what’s been reported today. I’m sure there will be lots more bumps in the road until this resolves itself one way or another. 

The private equity model usually involves a load of debt. Quite encouraging if the admins turned them away 

[Seaside Ram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Agreed. The sum sounds more like the installments for the rest of the season are paused with it all falling due in the summer.

I swear it was Percy that suggested £2m had been paid off so far (over 2 and a little bit seasons), so it would be bizarre if there was now a £1.4m instalment.

Anyone else think Percy is a bit of a ?stirrer ?

[Reggie Greenwood]

Just now, Seaside Ram said:

Anyone else think Percy is a bit of a ?stirrer ?

Well he is a 6 fingered red dog 

[Kingpin]

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

Maybe Birch isn’t onside  least not fully 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10060109/Derby-Countys-future-hangs-balance-taxpayers-bail-club-say-analysts.html

 

Guessing again. But slivers of it are worrying. ?

[atherstoneram]

2 hours ago, jono said:

I am Struggling with this supposed HMRC debt .. has it been confirmed ?  .. even if our wage bill was 20 million PA , meaning tax and Ni might get to 10 million .. that’s an awful lot .. could we really not have been paying for 2 years ? 
 

I can’t see us owing VAT at that level either .. if as a club we were invoicing sponsors and what not 10 million a year then Vat is going to be 2 Million or whatever … in macro round pounds, where on earth does 26 million come from.

Is the bill related to capital gains on the stadium ? .. I mean what other “item” could attract those sort of figures from a loss making company with a turnover of 30 million .. it doesn’t add up to my simplistic mind.

I suppose we might not have been paying for getting on towards Two years, the HMRC may well have been chasing the club for payment but there wasn't much they could do about it as winding up orders were suspended until 30th September so they couldn't force his hand to pay.