Derby County Administration (with the slight possibility of Liquidation still there)

[ariotofmyown]

Why the F doesn't Mel just pay HMRC. He's got loads of money and created this mess. He should just pay for his mistakes and stop us going under. Maybe he will in the end and he's just waiting to see if anyone else will pay it for him.

[atherstoneram]

21 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Not necessarily. It puts them in the driving seat in determining whether the club gets sold or liquidated but they're probably much more pragmatic than a bank, or even HMRC might be. - they're gamblers after all. I think it might even deter other creditors from pushing for liquidation, because it makes it more likely that others won't recover anything from the wreckage. 

It only puts them in the driving seat if an agreement can be reached with HMRC. before the rule change they were left to fight over the dregs now they are in the position to say settle up or else. Going into administration to get rid of debts is not so easy to get out of now as it was. 

Do i think they would put the club into liquidation if they don't receive what they ask for i think they would. This is a test case and will want to show they mean to act tough in negotiations.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

It could be curtains.

What would be the point in HMRC liquidating the club - who seem to have very few assets of value, as opposed to negotiating a deal? I'd be pissed off as a tax payer at them missing the chance to recoup some revenue.

[Beetle]

And they'd lose the £500,000 or so they are getting each month now unless we are still not paying?

[atherstoneram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What would be the point in HMRC liquidating the club - who seem to have very few assets of value, as opposed to negotiating a deal? I'd be pissed off as a tax payer at them missing the chance to recoup some revenue.

You might well be @RoyMac5 but there would probably be millions of taxpayers saying why should they be allowed to continue in business if they can't settle their tax bills when they are going to see a rise in theirs.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Anyone with a shread of hope, who knows a thing or two about these types of situations, could you please tell us how you see this situation coming to and end?

15 million owed to MSD, 26, 28 (insert here) millions to HMRC, 8 million to Arsenal, 5 to Cocu etc etc.

How do we as a club wriggle out of this?

Is there a takeover done and dusted and all this is dotting I's and crossing T's before it is announced, or are we really in shtuck.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What would be the point in HMRC liquidating the club - who seem to have very few assets of value, as opposed to negotiating a deal? I'd be pissed off as a tax payer at them missing the chance to recoup some revenue.

My concern would be that there are likely to be more and more clubs in our situation in the next 2 or 3 years, clearly the HMRC have pushed and pushed for laws to change to ensure they get their money. I wouldn't be surprised to see the HMRC use us as an example to all of the other clubs to make sure they pay their taxes on time.

A sacrificial ram, if you like ?.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

My concern would be that there are likely to be more and more clubs in our situation in the next 2 or 3 years, clearly the HMRC have pushed and pushed for laws to change to ensure they get their money. I wouldn't be surprised to see the HMRC use us as an example to all of the other clubs to make sure they pay their taxes on time.

A sacrificial ram, if you like ?.

I’m afraid you could be right 

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Anyone with a shread of hope, who knows a thing or two about these types of situations, could you please tell us how you see this situation coming to and end?

15 million owed to MSD, 26, 28 (insert here) millions to HMRC, 8 million to Arsenal, 5 to Cocu etc etc.

How do we as a club wriggle out of this?

Is there a takeover done and dusted and all this is dotting I's and crossing T's before it is announced, or are we really in shtuck.

New owners with big pockets is the only answer I’m afraid. 
 

Hoping for the best as a fan. 
 

PS I hope MM pays off some of the debt though particularly HMRC 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Curtains

[TuffLuff]

16 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Anyone with a shread of hope, who knows a thing or two about these types of situations, could you please tell us how you see this situation coming to and end?

15 million owed to MSD, 26, 28 (insert here) millions to HMRC, 8 million to Arsenal, 5 to Cocu etc etc.

How do we as a club wriggle out of this?

Is there a takeover done and dusted and all this is dotting I's and crossing T's before it is announced, or are we really in shtuck.

The administrators will be well ahead of us with this info. They will look to reduce the HMRC first then look to make a plan with MSD afterwards. Both need to be cooperative because if the club ceased to exist then they would receive nothing.

There is more than a hint that something is in place, but owners need to know what is owed where before proceeding further

As a fan it’s best to remain calm, buy a ticket some merch and hopefully some of this beer! From our point of view every little bit helps

Edited October 6, 2021 by TuffLuff

[atherstoneram]

6 minutes ago, Curtains said:

New owners with big pockets is the only answer I’m afraid. 
 

Hoping for the best as a fan. 
 

PS I hope MM pays off some of the debt though particularly HMRC 

I think if he wanted to pay some of the debt towards the HMRC he would have done so before we ever got to this stage.When someone says he is only prepared to put enough money into the club to keep it ticking over you would have thought that would include paying bills as well.

[atherstoneram]

Just now, TuffLuff said:

The administrators will be well ahead of us with this info. They will look to reduce the HMRC first then look to make a plan with MSD afterwards. Both need to be cooperative because if the club ceased to exist then they would receive nothing.

There is more than a hint that something is in place, but owners need to know what is owed where before proceeding further

But that's just it, the HMRC don't need to be cooperative.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, atherstoneram said:

But that's just it, the HMRC don't need to be cooperative.

Well they do if they want some money. We aren't the only business to be struggling to pay our debts post-covid.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, atherstoneram said:

I think if he wanted to pay some of the debt towards the HMRC he would have done so before we ever got to this stage.When someone says he is only prepared to put enough money into the club to keep it ticking over you would have thought that would include paying bills as well.

I totally agree that’s why with the new HMRC rules we are in a mess if they want all the money. 

The only saving grace is if we go into liquidation the HMRC get 100 percent of nothing .

The meeting between administrators and HMRC will be difficult as outcome could have effect on the local economy if we are in liquidation and HMRC get nothing 
 

 

[therealhantsram]

4 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

The administrators will be well ahead of us with this info. They will look to reduce the HMRC first then look to make a plan with MSD afterwards. Both need to be cooperative because if the club ceased to exist then they would receive nothing.

There is more than a hint that something is in place, but owners need to know what is owed where before proceeding further

As a fan it’s best to remain calm, but a ticket some merch and hopefully some of this beer!

This is so right. Unlike other businesses, our only assets are players. A 'normal' liquidated business would sell off material assets to pay off HMRC.
But if we are liquidated players become free agents. No opportunity to pay anyone anything.

The only option is to come to an agreement.

It potentially becomes a game of chicken. How hard would the creditors (mainly HMRC) push things, knowing if they push too hard they get nothing. 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, atherstoneram said:

But that's just it, the HMRC don't need to be cooperative.

Maybe they need to compromise or they will look as though they just don’t care about the club or the Derby area 

[RoyMac5]

 

[Hordh]

9 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Well they do if they want some money. We aren't the only business to be struggling to pay our debts post-covid.

Now that they are in a better position for the first time regarding a football club going into administration, I suspect that they will play hardball to send a message to all other clubs. 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Hordh said:

Now that they are in a better position for the first time regarding a football club going into administration, I suspect that they will play hardball to send a message to all other clubs. 

Why? It still won't get them money. As has been suggested 'deterrents' tend not to work, people still offend.

[PistoldPete]

10 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

This is so right. Unlike other businesses, our only assets are players. A 'normal' liquidated business would sell off material assets to pay off HMRC.
But if we are liquidated players become free agents. No opportunity to pay anyone anything.

The only option is to come to an agreement.

It potentially becomes a game of chicken. How hard would the creditors (mainly HMRC) push things, knowing if they push too hard they get nothing. 

The only readily realisable assets are the players .. and even that would only be possible come January. 
 

The club has other assets , the academy players, the leases on the stadium and the training ground but these are only of value to a football club as a going concern. 

but by far the most valuable asset the club has is its fan base … that doesn’t appear in the balance sheet , and again is only of value if the club continues in its present form.