The slow death of comedy and humour.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Tried that. Comedown was a bar steward.

B'dum tsk.

 

[JoetheRam]

3 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Fair comment, I guess some people's internal filters are more heightened than others if that's the correct word?

I used to work in an open plan office and the Technical Manager there was a very religious person and any mention of blasphemy or mild cuss words and they would be straight in the HR Office complaining. It was an extremely difficult situation to manage quite frankly as for me if someone said Jesus H it would have no real impact but for them was totally unacceptable. 

Can understand that being tough because that's a real life situation, and everyone should be respected, which is difficult when peoples values don't align. Which I guess is why we have HR laws and codes of ethics etc.

Stand up comedy though exists on a different plane. It's a safe haven of free speech and free thinking, or should be. Anything goes, and people have made a choice to view that material. Viewers have a right to express horror or disgust or whatever but they don't get to decide whether or not that material should exist, which is what some people have called for.

 

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Can understand that being tough because that's a real life situation, and everyone should be respected, which is difficult when peoples values don't align. Which I guess is why we have HR laws and codes of ethics etc.

Stand up comedy though exists on a different plane. It's a safe haven of free speech and free thinking, or should be. Anything goes, and people have made a choice to view that material. Viewers have a right to express horror or disgust or whatever but they don't get to decide whether or not that material should exist, which is what some people have called for.

 

Not Jim Davisons biggest fan but some of his comments do resonate 

 

[RoyMac5]

28 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Stand up comedy though exists on a different plane. It's a safe haven of free speech and free thinking, or should be. Anything goes, and people have made a choice to view that material. Viewers have a right to express horror or disgust or whatever but they don't get to decide whether or not that material should exist, which is what some people have called for.

 

What's the difference between it being 'comedy' and being 'hate speech'? Whether someone laughs or not.

[Boycie]

58 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's the difference between it being 'comedy' and being 'hate speech'? Whether someone laughs or not.

 Nobody laughed when Hiltler did speeches as far as I know? 

[RoyMac5]

4 minutes ago, Boycie said:

 Nobody laughed when Hitler did speeches as far as I know? 

Really? 

[BaaLocks]

2 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

Stand up comedy though exists on a different plane. It's a safe haven of free speech and free thinking, or should be. Anything goes, and people have made a choice to view that material. Viewers have a right to express horror or disgust or whatever but they don't get to decide whether or not that material should exist, which is what some people have called for.

Not true (imho), in the same way it is not true to just say "I'm being ironic" or "I'm right on, so don't think what I am about to say is racist / sexist / just poor". We have parameters in society that bound what is acceptable - you can't walk down the street naked, you can't dump on your restaurant table, you can't kick someone in the head just coz you think they are a scumbag. In the same way, you can't just say anything and then frame it as comedy. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with what you say, or find it funny, but it has to be something where the value of the comedy it brings outweighs the offence it causes and where the offence is acceptable within our society.

It's also why it isn't the right thing to do to judge comedy of years gone by through today's lens. Love Thy Neighbour looks abhorrent now but at the time it was the voice of the society it lived within. Similarly muc of the music hall and burlesque we would look at as pantomime but was actually often the alt-comedy of it's day.

Edited February 8, 2022 by BaaLocks

[Boycie]

59 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Really? 

Maybe some at the back?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Boycie said:

Maybe some at the back?

Little bit of cheering and arm raising I'd imagine.

[Boycie]

33 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Little bit of cheering and arm raising I'd imagine.

Apparently one lad at the back was heard to say “he’s just a schite Charlie Chaplin”

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Boycie

[sage]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

 Nobody laughed when Hiltler did speeches as far as I know? 

 

[Cisse]

I hate the current atmosphere towards humor. You can't say or do anything without someone crying about it. The craziest thing is that now people are expected to apologize jokes in comedies that are 30-70 years old. 

[Cisse]

I have always thought that you should joke about anything, even death. That belief became even stronger about 30 years ago. 

My grandma died as she was visiting a hospital. They tried to revive her but didn't succeed. The doctor in charge however gave some young doctor an order to hit her with defibrillator again and again after she was gone to get more practice.They told that to us afterwards. 

Suddenly my grandma came back. The doctors were stunned. They told that they had never seen somebody as dead as she was come back. It took a couple of days for her to become strong enough to be able to talk. The first thing she said was ask for a water. The nurse said that they couldn't give her water at the moment due to her medical condition. My grandma told the nurse, okay give me some booze then. The nurse was horrified. "We can't give you any alcohol". My grandma just started to laugh.

When we came to see her my grandma told this story to us and we all started to laugh, loudly. The thing is my grandma never used alcohol. We laughed and laughed and people were horrified of our whole family that seemed to be a bunch of drunks.

At that time I really realized that there is no situation you can't make a joke. Okay we properly offended others in the room and perhaps the nurse in question but there was no harm intended against anyone and if somebody got offended I think that they should be able to live with it.

[JoetheRam]

13 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

What's the difference between it being 'comedy' and being 'hate speech'? Whether someone laughs or not.

You've answered your own question there for me.

11 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Not true (imho), in the same way it is not true to just say "I'm being ironic" or "I'm right on, so don't think what I am about to say is racist / sexist / just poor". We have parameters in society that bound what is acceptable - you can't walk down the street naked, you can't dump on your restaurant table, you can't kick someone in the head just coz you think they are a scumbag. In the same way, you can't just say anything and then frame it as comedy. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with what you say, or find it funny, but it has to be something where the value of the comedy it brings outweighs the offence it causes and where the offence is acceptable within our society.

It's also why it isn't the right thing to do to judge comedy of years gone by through today's lens. Love Thy Neighbour looks abhorrent now but at the time it was the voice of the society it lived within. Similarly muc of the music hall and burlesque we would look at as pantomime but was actually often the alt-comedy of it's day.

I think I disagree with the bits in bold.

The first, because if I, as a bleeding heart soft liberal lefty, make a joke about a woman's place being in the kitchen (which I did, in real life, two days ago, to two women), people are able to separate my actual beliefs from that implied by the joke, I think it's called "the ol' switcheroo".

The ladies expected me to say something positive about what a woman's place is, when instead I said, in an ironic way, what a chauvinist would say, subverting their expectations and therefore getting a (cheap) laugh at chauvinism's expense. If I'd have used the exact same words at a rally then, yes it would be sexist, but then again it also wouldn't be a joke because instead of laughing, the audience would have nodded their heads in agreement. So context and audience is important.

Who am I to frame the comments as a joke instead of hate speech? Well I'm the person who said them and the person who knows the intent with which they were used. Perhaps fortunately, in my case the two people who could have taken offence, received the words in the same manner as I delivered them.

I think this applies even more strongly for something advertised as stand up or a sitcom or any other comedic vehicle because it is delivered in a knowingly false manner. In the same way an audience willfully suspend belief in the set up of most jokes (i.e not all jokes are autobiographical, nor do all comedians have "a friend", but we go along with it for the sake of the pay off), so too should the audience suspend belief at the punchline.

 

[ramit]

i made an incorrect accusation earlier, based on my laziness of reading the terms and conditions.  i apologize.

[Stive Pesley]

11 hours ago, Cisse said:

I have always thought that you should joke about anything, even death

Didn't go very well for some people in the Prince Philip Is Dead thread 

 

[BaaLocks]

3 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

You've answered your own question there for me.

I think I disagree with the bits in bold.

The first, because if I, as a bleeding heart soft liberal lefty, make a joke about a woman's place being in the kitchen (which I did, in real life, two days ago, to two women), people are able to separate my actual beliefs from that implied by the joke, I think it's called "the ol' switcheroo".

The ladies expected me to say something positive about what a woman's place is, when instead I said, in an ironic way, what a chauvinist would say, subverting their expectations and therefore getting a (cheap) laugh at chauvinism's expense. If I'd have used the exact same words at a rally then, yes it would be sexist, but then again it also wouldn't be a joke because instead of laughing, the audience would have nodded their heads in agreement. So context and audience is important.

Who am I to frame the comments as a joke instead of hate speech? Well I'm the person who said them and the person who knows the intent with which they were used. Perhaps fortunately, in my case the two people who could have taken offence, received the words in the same manner as I delivered them.

I think this applies even more strongly for something advertised as stand up or a sitcom or any other comedic vehicle because it is delivered in a knowingly false manner. In the same way an audience willfully suspend belief in the set up of most jokes (i.e not all jokes are autobiographical, nor do all comedians have "a friend", but we go along with it for the sake of the pay off), so too should the audience suspend belief at the punchline.

 

It strikes me as similar to the difference between racism and institutional racism. The difference being that even if I might not think I am acting in a racist manner I am, my not being aware of it does not stop it being racist.

I am not the one who gets to say 'well I meant it as a joke so you have no right to see it as anything else'. Look, I'm not saying there should be a woke committee that approves every joke just to make sure it doesn't upset the one legged, half Bolivian, lesbian whose cat is allergic to industrial pesticides. But, as I said originally, there are boundaries that are set within the boundaries of society. Many comedians push up against them, and they should - to test them - but ultimately they don't get to call whether it is OK to step over them. And it's not about suspending belief or being expected to react in a certain way, it's about respecting that calling something a joke does not allow the comedian just to say whatever they want to and then label it as funny as absolution. This is where Jimmy Carr went wrong, he completely set out the jokes as 'career enders' and then intentionally stepped over the line - it was wrong and he has been rightly vilified for it.

[Day]

The key is, not to be your true self online. 

My humour is without boundaries, I may think some things are just wrong at times, but not sure anything could offend me as such and I have no interest in being offended on others behalf.

The rules on this forum are not a reflection of myself either, they are an understanding of what advertisers will not tolerate and just as importantly, what will allow a community to flourish.

Some will question us on that, and admittedly we do get it wrong from time to time, it's human moderation, better than bots but far from flawless.

On here, it's almost part of the role to try and be offended on behalf others, if I didn't we would have a forum akin to a Millwall one.

Then you have to factor in the other moderators levels of what they find offensive, tried to strike a balance and why I chased @angieram for so long, I wanted that female view as the moderators room had calendars up of topless models.

You have to be careful though as too many voices can confuse the stance. Saying that, allow me to introduce the latest moderator, @DarkFruitsRam7 who either pulled off the greatest of con job on me last night, or actually is a perfect fit adding more youth to what is mostly a 30+ mod room.

BBC, Sky Sports, Twitter, Facebook all these platforms are no different, even Spotify have a battle on their hands with their employees trying to cancel Joe Rogan.

So I think what I'm saying after taking that detour is, be aware of how the world is today, if you have dark humour that's not a bad thing, but to survive online it's best to keep that locked away and saved for down the pub where your friendships have been built and personalities established.

[Mucker1884]

28 minutes ago, David said:

...allow me to introduce the latest moderator, @DarkFruitsRam7 who either pulled off...

 

Too far!
Stopped reading!  

 

Sicko!  

Edited February 9, 2022 by Mucker1884

[Mihangel]

16 hours ago, Cisse said:

I hate the current atmosphere towards humor. You can't say or do anything without someone crying about it. The craziest thing is that now people are expected to apologize jokes in comedies that are 30-70 years old.