The slow death of comedy and humour.

[i-Ram]

It’s not just on this forum of course, but we should all have a minutes silence this morning at 11 that ‘Ginger’ jokes are no longer to be considered funny, nor leg pulls about the Chinese or the Irish, or gentle teasing of Scousers. Comedy is not quite dead for those who plot a careful course, but for most of us now there is a need for us to comply, and to accept that comedy just can’t be funny any more.

[BaaLocks]

'Obese, but it's OK because they are happy inside' chance

[Chester40]

I largely agree.

I think it's perfectly ok to argue that just because something offends you doesn't make you right. Being upset by anything, now is immediately legitimised as offensive and you have the moral high ground. 

One question though. My eldest is going through the annoying know-it-all college phase. He said the other day 'comedy is about subverting your expectations'... Do ginger, Scottish or whatever jokes actually do that? I still laugh...but it made me think... 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Chester40

[Mucker1884]

I hear what you're saying, bro.  

Fine lines and all that, and they seem to be getting finer by the day.  I guess we all have our sensitivities, but I'm a great believer in either laughing it off (for 99% of the time) and ignoring the rare "joke" that may touch a nerve.

Whilst there are some out there who deliberately set out to offend, I like to think I'm pretty good at sussing out who they are, and who are the ones that just want to brighten up the day, and bring a smile and laughter to people's lives... even if they do a poor job of it! 

I do feel that for every single "offender", there are dozens waiting to be seen to be offended.  I find that sad, in all honesty, but I guess we just have to let them get on with it.  Perhaps some laughter would do them the world of good!   

 

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[BIllyD]

You just have to know your audience. If you went into a pub full of strangers and starting picking on someone because of their hair colour for example, chances are you are going to offend someone. I don't think this has changed throughout the years, it's just about using a bit of brain power now and again to think is this appropriate. 
 

Same as a forum, only difference is your hiding behind a mask of anonymity, so whilst you may think your funny and your mates would probably find it funny, your putting it out there to a larger audience and therefore, there are going to be some that don't.

[Stive Pesley]

Comedy is subjective. And can also be complex, with multiple levels to a joke. Likewise some jokes are just mean-spirited blunt instruments

For example, if the sole premise of a Ginger joke is "haha they have orange hair" then it's not actually that funny is it? Regardless of whether it's offensive or not. It's just not a very subtle joke.

Whereas the Prince Harry/Ginger joke in the other thread at least worked on different levels. Taking the crap and tired cliche old joke about ginger hair somehow being regarded as a bad thing and saying "he'd done alright for a ginger" - when he's a filthy rich titled member of the British Royal Family - his ginger hair is not really the reason he's "done alright"

I think most people get the distinction, but quite often those who moan about how "you cant joke about x any more" are the people who simply aren't funny and need an excuse as to why no one is laughing at their weak gags

 

[Gone]

5 minutes ago, BIllyD said:

Same as a forum, only difference is your hiding behind a mask of anonymity, so whilst you may think your funny and your mates would probably find it funny, your putting it out there to a larger audience and therefore, there are going to be some that don't

I get this, but should we stop all humour just in case the some that don’t find it funny may become offended? 
Maybe I’m from a different generation or thicker skinned, but if I saw a joke that picked out something particular to me (skin colour/hair colour, weight, ear size, where I’m from, what I sound/look like) then I wouldn’t even think about being offended, I would either laugh with it or not. 
 

Problem is now the best way to get what you want is not to say please, it’s to say your offended. Sad times and way to live imo. 

[Tyler Durden]

The woke brigade have finally won it seems. 

Bernard Manning would be spinning in his grave. 

[Day]

As a naturally hilarious person that feeds off cheap gags, I myself feel constrained somewhat now not to offend. 

It’s difficult, and comes down to not knowing what goes on behind the screens that are reading your posts.

Myself and Boycie, we give each other some right stick, at times it leaks on the forum, he gets all the fat jokes, I get all the no hair. I try to target it specifically at him, and not to capture all fat people, which may I add I’m actually fat myself right now thanks to lockdown.

We can handle it, others not so much, and it’s mostly because we have built up this online relationship to do so, but say if a new member joined, in his first 10 posts starts calling me baldie, chances are I’ll not be offended but think who the hell is this person. 

As moderators, that’s part of the “job”, recognising these relationships, and those that clash.

Back in the day I got it wrong, gave @Eddie a warning for something he posted to @Mostyn6, now as you will all be aware, Eddie doesn’t have much of a filter. When Mostyn found out he dropped me a PM to explain they’ve known each other for years over Derby County forums and have these back and forth flirtations.

Warning removed, apology given.

It’s a minefield it really is, and if I ask anyone reading this to be a moderator, do yourself a favour and say no.

 

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

The woke brigade have finally won it seems. 

Bernard Manning would be spinning in his grave. 

You only have to look at the sheer number of comedians, actors/actressess, tv shows, movies, cartoon characters, etc that are being cancelled on a daily basis to see that as a society we're in a crisis atm.  Its going to get much worse before it gets better.

[Day]

3 minutes ago, David said:

As a naturally hilarious person that feeds off cheap gags, I myself feel constrained somewhat now not to offend. 

It’s difficult, and comes down to not knowing what goes on behind the screens that are reading your posts.

Myself and Boycie, we give each other some right stick, at times it leaks on the forum, he gets all the fat jokes, I get all the no hair. I try to target it specifically at him, and not to capture all fat people, which may I add I’m actually fat myself right now thanks to lockdown.

We can handle it, others not so much, and it’s mostly because we have built up this online relationship to do so, but say if a new member joined, in his first 10 posts starts calling me baldie, chances are I’ll not be offended but think who the hell is this person. 

As moderators, that’s part of the “job”, recognising these relationships, and those that clash.

Back in the day I got it wrong, gave @Eddie a warning for something he posted to @Mostyn6, now as you will all be aware, Eddie doesn’t have much of a filter. When Mostyn found out he dropped me a PM to explain they’ve known each other for years over Derby County forums and have these back and forth flirtations.

Warning removed, apology given.

It’s a minefield it really is, and if I ask anyone reading this to be a moderator, do yourself a favour and say no.

Oh and just to add to this, one of the hardest things running this forum comes when we have new members that have been lurking for years, know all the inside jokes and feel like they know everyone and join straight in.

Initial thought, this member has been banned before, which sometimes is the case, others not so. 

[Tyler Durden]

3 minutes ago, maxjam said:

You only have to look at the sheer number of comedians, actors/actressess, tv shows, movies, cartoon characters, etc that are being cancelled on a daily basis to see that as a society we're in a crisis atm.  Its going to get much worse before it gets better.

The gradual slide has been happening for a number of years now quite sadly. 

[TimRam]

Better make the most of Only Fools and Horses then as an example. Specially the first few series. I think a lot of what we call classic comedies will be cut to shreds and eventually removed from history altogether.

[BIllyD]

20 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I get this, but should we stop all humour just in case the some that don’t find it funny may become offended? 
Maybe I’m from a different generation or thicker skinned, but if I saw a joke that picked out something particular to me (skin colour/hair colour, weight, ear size, where I’m from, what I sound/look like) then I wouldn’t even think about being offended, I would either laugh with it or not. 
 

Problem is now the best way to get what you want is not to say please, it’s to say your offended. Sad times and way to live imo. 

As I say it's just about using your intelligence, whilst I may be the same as you and not get offended that is not the same for all.

I dont think it's a different generation, would you have gone into a pub full of strangers and start telling jokes to the everyone in there about people for ginger hair for example. I know if you did in my old local then someone would take offence and a brawl would soon follow.
 

That's not to say if I said the same comment it wouldn't be met without laughter, but banter between friends is different to saying it to a complete stranger. 
 

Maybe it's just me though, I'm not sure I get the "banter" to the degree of abusing someone on a forum full of people I don't know, just seems to be pointless ?‍♂️

[Stive Pesley]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

You only have to look at the sheer number of comedians, actors/actressess, tv shows, movies, cartoon characters, etc that are being cancelled on a daily basis to see that as a society we're in a crisis atm.  Its going to get much worse before it gets better.

bit of an over-exaggeration? Are there really "a number  of things being cancelled on a daily basis"? Or is it just the usual media tactic of hammering stories to get ad-clicks from the inevitable polarised reaction?

For what it's worth, I think that anyone should be able to joke about anything - but the flipside of that is that they have to consider the audience/platform and if they get that wrong then they can't be surprised if someone calls them out for it. They just need to be prepared to defend themselves or apologise (whichever they prefer). Taking the "oh it's PC gone mad" stance is a weak excuse. Be accountable for your words or STFU

Remember that this is a two-sided argument after all - you have a right to tell what jokes you like, just as much as someone else has the right to say that they don't find it funny. Works both ways. If you're really complaining that you can't joke about stuff without being told you're not funny, then is your skin really any thinner than the person who you deem to be "over-reacting"?

 

[Parsnip]

The trouble with ginger jokes is that they're hurtful, particularly amongst children, and they're boring. 

No loss to comedy if they die out.

[ilkleyram]

1 hour ago, TimRam said:

Better make the most of Only Fools and Horses then as an example. Specially the first few series. I think a lot of what we call classic comedies will be cut to shreds and eventually removed from history altogether.

The constant rewriting of history worries me - whether it's statues of slave traders or TV programmes.  We need to remember that Love Thy Neighbour was watched and laughed at by millions (and included - though this is often forgotten or omitted - racist comments against white as well as black people) and that the Black and White Minstrel Show was similarly popular, that Dad's Army and Porridge and 'Allo 'Allo and Fawlty Towers also had elements which wouldn't be scripted nowadays.  And don't get me started on 'Are You Being Served'. All got audiences and followings that TV producers today would die for.  It matters not a jot that you personally wouldn't laugh at them now or then, what matters is that they were of their time and millions did.

One of the points of history, and the past generally, is to learn from it and move on. But to do that you have to know about it and see it to be able to challenge it and grow.  If you bury all these things away and pretend that they never existed then you effectively censor the past and by doing so censor the future. 

[Day]

Is there not a difference between finding something not funny and being actually offended by it?

I do find that these days we are bypassing the not funny and jumping straight to being offended.

Of late, Sacha Baren Cohon, Matt Lucas, David Walliams have all come out and apologised for sketches in their comedies over the years. 

Little Britain for example won numerous awards around 15 years ago, before the social media boom. 

It’s hard to deny that the boundaries of comedy has changed with the growth of social media, there’s a lot of classic British comedies that had they come out today just wouldn’t fly at all, being a huge fan of them that does kinda disappoint me that we are at the stage now where comedies are treading on eggshells. 

[Gone]

36 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Remember that this is a two-sided argument after all - you have a right to tell what jokes you like, just as much as someone else has the right to say that they don't find it funny. Works both ways. If you're really complaining that you can't joke about stuff without being told you're not funny, then is your skin really any thinner than the person who you deem to be "over-reacting"?

What a great way of looking at it, I hadn’t thought of it this way at all ??

[maxjam]

44 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

bit of an over-exaggeration? Are there really "a number  of things being cancelled on a daily basis"? Or is it just the usual media tactic of hammering stories to get ad-clicks from the inevitable polarised reaction?

Well lets see, off the top of my head...

It was Gina Canaro last week for daring to have an opinion.  There was also an attempt to cancel Henry Cavil because he once dated Gina Canaro a decade ago.

This week is Pepe le Pew and Dr Seuss.

You can virtually put your mortgage on it being someone or something else next week.  Heck, its not even the weekend yet...