Cocu the Future ?

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Ramfan1958 said:

Is Cocu the Future in my opinion it's a no .

Is Rooney the Future as a player again it's a no.

I think this is the worst Derby team for many a year. 

Really worried if we play 50% academy players next year that we could be relegated. 

Just being  honest !!!

Is Cocu the Future in my opinion it's a no . Way too early to judge. He's had a really tough season (on and off the pitch) to deal with and whilst we have certainly run out of steam over the last 4 or 5 games, I doubt many would have questioned his ability since Christmas up until the Forest game.

Is Rooney the Future as a player again it's a no. At his age the answer is obviously no. I would imagine next season will be his last as a player at any level. He was never signed as a player for the future.

I think this is the worst Derby team for many a year. Certainly not the best but it depends on what you mean by "many a year"

Really worried if we play 50% academy players next year that we could be relegated. A little bit premature to be so pessimistic. I personally doubt we'll be threatening the play offs too seriously next year but, subject to any potential points deduction, think we'll have a squad strong enough to be competitive. If we perform like we did at the start and as we have over recent games then yes, start checking the location of the the league one teams. However, if we play/get results like we have since January then we shouldn't fear relegation any more than any other club. Less so in fact.

[Millenniumram]

59 minutes ago, Ramfan1958 said:

The team today played so slow it's so boring to watch , theres no passion in the players.

That was Leeds reserve team and they were miles better than us.

Are we improving No is the answer. 

48 years season ticket holder and I don't see what the future is with this manager , it's been a shocking season tell me one game were you went Wow !!.

Listen, I get your frustrations today, I really do. It was pretty pathetic from us, we didn’t lay a glove on Leeds reserves for most of the game. Really poor effort from our players - there’s no way most of that team were putting anywhere near 100% effort in. And that’s the really disappointing thing. It’s harsh to put that all on the manager though. I have my doubts about Cocu’s man-management skills, but the players shouldn’t need motivating for a game like this. Says it all about the attitude of certain players at the club that they simply could Te be arsed to put the effort in today - frankly I wouldn’t miss most of the senior players within our squad. If you don’t work hard enough have you don’t win football matches, simple as.

FWIW my gut feeling is that Cocu won’t be a long term success at Derby. He feels very much like Nigel Clough to me - doing his best to bring through youngsters in difficult circumstances, but ultimately too cautious and negative to take a team up to the Premier League. My prediction is he ends up leaving November time, but he leaves us in a better position than when he came in - hopefully with the building blocks in place for a more positive manager to come in and take the leash off our young talents and see us rise up the table (similar to Mac in 2013/14). That said, it’s very harsh to pin everything poor about this season on Cocu. He’s undoubtedly improved the teams possession play in midfield, as well as their ability to play out the back and beat the press. There’s been too many off field issues to really judge Cocu on what’s happened this year - next season will tell us a lot more you’d hope.

[Red_ram]

So few things from me:

Keeper. I don’t think I can overestimate enough the effect a keeper good or bad has on the defence and then beyond. It’s not just the odd gaffe here or there, you could see today, and with hamer, the lack of communication and confidence. Even having playing centre back at local level I know the competence behind you breeds confidence. I don’t think it’s a coincidence we keep getting caught with runs across our defence either. Comms, comms, comms.

Style. Honestly half a dozen games ago I was loving watching us. Had no qualms with that style at all (or the green shoots of it). We received the ball, already had a ball in mind, passed forward and to feet. The difference a knock of confidence does? Don’t move, don’t turn,look or go forward and then we’re left with the football of the last few games. We’re also trying to make a blueprint with a probably big proportion of players that don’t match the criteria of the idea cocu has, so we’ve had to make do for a season. 

Rooney. Certainly had a massive impact. Honestly think he’s run out of steam. Champ is a long season even with a break, he’s generally been great but clearly off the boil last few games. We all know he’s not the long term future, but bird is the case in point for learning from him and progressing. It’s an unfortunate coincidence that we find ourselves a squad that lacks pace as it emphasises it in Rooney. For the most part having the likes of bird et al to do the legwork has got us by though. Just can’t break as quickly as we like. Only sibley, Lawrence and Bogle of the main starters can move forward with any turbo.

Summary. I’m happy with cocu. Gotta give someone time. Haven’t always understood his methods, especially early doors, but I’ve seen enough good performances in the second half to know if we didn’t have a rocky back line and suicidal tendencies, with the right additions of keeper, centre back and pace out on the wings we could do alright next season. Oh and sibley could be better than Will Hughes. Think he’s brilliant.

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Listen, I get your frustrations today, I really do. It was pretty pathetic from us, we didn’t lay a glove on Leeds reserves for most of the game.

An end of season game, in a long run of games, where there was nothing to play for bar winning. With a thin squad with glaring gaps in it. We got what anyone should have expected against the Championship winners. Bits of the season showed where we were aiming for given a better squad.

[Millenniumram]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

An end of season game, in a long run of games, where there was nothing to play for bar winning. With a thin squad with glaring gaps in it. We got what anyone should have expected against the Championship winners. Bits of the season showed where we were aiming for given a better squad.

And this is the point. Winning is a mentality. Leeds showed that today. Already won the league and they turned up and gave it their all. We barely put 50% effort in. I don’t think it’s too much to expect a better performance than what we saw today, or in fact over the past few games.

Losing games is one thing, we expect that against the quality of opposition we’ve faced recently, given the lack of quality we have in our own squad. But we should never accept the team rolling over and getting their bellies tickled the way they have done in recent weeks. We surrounded our playoff hopes with barely a whimper.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Millenniumram said:

And this is the point. Winning is a mentality. Leeds showed that today. Already won the league and they turned up and gave it their all. We barely put 50% effort in. I don’t think it’s too much to expect a better performance than what we saw today, or in fact over the past few games.

I'm sure we can expect it but the reality is too often something else. The squad is worse than paper thin, that doesn't help at all.

[Cisse]

I would like to see us giving Cocu a proper chance. We have had a decent season with a squad which wasn't a brilliant one to start with and as always our injuries have hurt us considerably. He has brought a lot of youngsters in to our squad with good success and if he can have some sound players to strenghten our team he can do at least as well as anyone else we could bring in.

[RamNut]

I’ve said all i need to say on Rooney, and 4231 and upset Daveo in the process.

many Seem to be coming round to the point of view that something more positive is required.
Cocu deserves the chance show what he’s about and bring in the players he wants. 
my doubts are that even when he has done that, we carry on with is tedious ineffective slow passing. 

Picking academy players is easy, but - unlike the academy - in this league results matter. And performances matter too.

that’s the next test.

[hintonsboots]

This is the biggest pre season for the recruitment team in many a long year in the Championship.

[LazloW]

I really can see why there are some concerns with Cocu’s style of play at times (although when the criticism comes from serial mood-hoovers and/or is over the top, it is natural to react strongly against it).  

Personally, I’d rather see a more aggressive and high tempo approach. However, when we are ‘at it’ we can look really good. We’re just not ‘at it’ as much as I’d like.

There are clearly many many reasons for this. Off the pitch catastrophes, injuries, silly suspensions, reduced and crap pre-season, poor signings probably outside his control, COVID-19 breaking up any momentum we had and leaving some players in odd contract situations, hardest run-in for many a season  etc etc.  It’s pretty obvious that the squad isn’t anywhere where it needs to be and very little, if any, of that is Cocu’s fault.

When you add it all up, it’s been a really weird season.  It has fizzled out and that’s a shame. But - to start the ‘Cocu’ out witch-hunts without taking the overall context into account is just plain silly, short sighted and a bit irrational.

I’m hoping that if things return to normal, he gets a proper pre-season, addressed the obvious shortcomings of the squad, and is given a fair crack of the whip, we’ll reach the heights more often, it will be more entertaining and ultimately successful. For that reason, we need to back Cocu as the future, at least for now and for the foreseeable future. 

 

[Papahet]

He needs money, the fact we even spoke about the play offs not so long ago with all the poo he's had to deal with this season, surely shows he's not done so bad - with limited funds and countless off field drama.

[RamLad1884]

[Pottig]

Cocu has had to deal with so much **** this season that it's hard not to feel sorry for him. I look forward to seeing what we do in the summer transfer-wise and a clean slate in terms of a new season. Onwards and upwards. COYR ?

[DCFC Kicks]

Given whats happened this season I'll reserve all judgements of Cocu until after the first 10 games of next season.

Once again the main failings of this season (and past few seasons) have come down to the recruitment. The loan signings of Paterson, Dowell and Hamer were just pure desperation after Lampard left and whatever plan they had went out the window. Clarke was a good signing, Shinnie is a decent squad player. Spending our entire budget on one player is always a risk if they get injured or flop, but I think Bielik will come good in the end. The Rooney transfer seems to been all down to Morris and Pearce and is a great signing but did it effect what we were originally going to do as the opportunity seemed to appear all of a sudden and happen very quickly. Don't think Cocu had a say in any of the transfers. 

[Rampant]

2 hours ago, Woodley Ram said:

Yes, he has done wonders given the season we have had. 
 

he is a good manager and we need continuity of management, playing style and players if we are to succeed.

 

100% this

[Rammy03]

7 minutes ago, DCFClks said:

Once again the main failings of this season (and past few seasons) have come down to the recruitment.

Absolutely. Forget managers for a minute, this is the most important thing. Without the right players on the field, we are going nowhere.

[BramcoteRam84]

Get Cocu out, bring in Danny Cowley who is  the next superstar English manager, bring back Jason Shackell to partner Curtis Davies, sign Rudy Gestede up top, James McClean on the wing, play shinnie and Bielik as midfield munchers, Don’t need finesse as the midfield will be bypassed 50 yard hoofs from the back in our 4-4 ducking 2 system and we’ll take the league by storm next season!! Rowett Ball on Steroids, that’s what we need.

Weve needed this transition season, we thought it was going to last season under lamps but he went short term and we nearly got up, but we’re paying for the Rowett and Lampard gambles now. Where would last season’s team be with Tomori Mount and Wilson - all huge players for us, two have gone on to play for England this season FFS. And we haven’t really signed anyone to replace them.
 

We have no cash so turning to youth is the only way with some shrewd recruitment if possible. Cocu has a proven record of bringing through youth, working with inferior budgets to his rivals - and still winning!! 
 

It’s great to hear him talk about the game, extremely insightful (we’ve had Paul Jewell John Gregory Phil Brown in the past)  he knows exactly where our shortcomings are, the areas we all say on here need improving are all the same things he is saying, and he is a winner, as a player and a manager, he has an elite mentality and hates losing. He’s been pretty brutal in his assessment of the team in recent games. He has the desire to get us to where we want to be and I think he has the ability too. 
 

Cocu is definitely the future for me. But now is the time to judge, if next season isn’t an improvement on this there may be some questions.

[Jourdan]

Let's see where we are in 18 months. We'll have a clearer picture of what Cocu can deliver.

Next season will present as many challenges as the current one.

Yes, our recent performances have been incredibly frustrating and exasperating, and offer little encouragement. But it's not the time to sack the manager.

But we can't keep making excuses for him, by the same token. He does need to start living up to his reputation.

[LeedsCityRam]

Its probably not the best time to be having a discussion about the long term given the short term annoyance of today. Context is rarely considered nor is fact that 5 games ago, we were on the verge of breaking into the top 6.

When this season is looked back on, it will be oft-quoted as one of the most turbulent in our history. The challenges have been unbelievable & added to the time constraints, loss of loan players from last year & a fanbase geared to expect top 6 finishes, it has been one of the toughest jobs in the Championship. Despite all this, Cocu has successfully integrated a number of Academy products AND England's record goalscorer. He has dealt with the off-field nonsense in a highly professional & dignified manner. We have recovered from a dreadful period around December & played some good stuff in the process.

Its not perfect & there's work to be done. There is a lack of pace & energy in the squad and our style is currently ineffective against the best in this division. But we're in a better place now than we were at the end of 2019 & Cocu's record at PSV suggests he's a slow burner but eventually very effective. It would be utter lunacy not to give Cocu the whole of next season at least...he is 100% our future.

[IslandExile]

If anyone has any doubts about Cocu, watch the post-Leeds interview on RamsTV.

Then reflect on this season and, in particular, on how the current squad was "assembled" (cobbled together).

It is time for the supporters to get behind Cocu and the club.

(Not flipping with every result).

Hopefully, the club can enable Cocu to bring in the players he wants to supplement the promising youngsters.

COYR ?